The Trump Card...

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
We also know a court agreed probable cause existed to believe three crimes have been committed that warranted the legal search of Mar-a-Lago and the legal seizure of the materials listed on inventories later released.
We still don't know what was in the affidavit the warrant was based on. Maybe it was constructed in a similar fashion to the ones submitted to the FISA courts in the Russia collusion hoax. Judge Cannon seems to have doubts about the legality of the seizure of the materials and probably the veracity of the inventories. That's why she kept asking the DOJ "why not have a special master?". When they said "trust us", she didn't buy it.
It was not illegal for the FBI to seize what the seized. If executive privilege or attorney client privilege is later found to apply to some or all of these materials, they cannot be used for investigation or prosecution purposes. But the FBI was fully authorized by the search warrant to seize the materials they did.
We don't know yet if these seizures were legal or not - that's what the special master would determine. Given the FBI/ DOJ's propensity for leaking, using bogus affidavits for warrants, and their anti-Trump bias, it's no wonder the judge appears concerned about the documents that may contain executive privilege or atty-client privilege. Unfortunately, that horse is probably out of the barn, but a special master could impose controls that wouldn't otherwise be there. This would seriously interfere with the DOJ fishing expedition and its related agenda - to keep Trump from running in 2024.
 

coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If by "she" you mean Judge Cannon, the lack of trust is one of the distinguishing features of any court, is it not? You don't just get to say something is such and such, you must prove it under the court's rules of procedure and evidence.
Which completely contradicts the way Trump is, he thinks if he repeats something enough times it becomes a fact.
 

danthewolf00

Veteran Expediter

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
  • Haha
Reactions: danthewolf00

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
You don't just get to say something is such and such, you must prove it under the court's rules of procedure and evidence.
That, or simply lie about it to tie judge. The FBI and DOJ already has a history of lying to the courts, including fabricating evidence, particularly when Trump is involved. And because of that history, there is zero evidence to support the notion that the FBI and DOJ is impartial, without fear or favor, in its investigations and actions regarding Trump. As Americans we desperately want to put our full faith in federal law enforcement, but just like the spouse who's been caught cheating for the 11th time, you reach a point where enough is enough and you can't trust them any more.
 

danthewolf00

Veteran Expediter
That, or simply lie about it to tie judge. The FBI and DOJ already has a history of lying to the courts, including fabricating evidence, particularly when Trump is involved. And because of that history, there is zero evidence to support the notion that the FBI and DOJ is impartial, without fear or favor, in its investigations and actions regarding Trump. As Americans we desperately want to put our full faith in federal law enforcement, but just like the spouse who's been caught cheating for the 11th time, you reach a point where enough is enough and you can't trust them any more.
FBI says they are not lieing.....ok then you should be ok with a independent special master then.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: RLENT and muttly

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
That, or simply lie about it to tie judge. The FBI and DOJ already has a history of lying to the courts, including fabricating evidence, particularly when Trump is involved. And because of that history, there is zero evidence to support the notion that the FBI and DOJ is impartial, without fear or favor, in its investigations and actions regarding Trump. As Americans we desperately want to put our full faith in federal law enforcement, but just like the spouse who's been caught cheating for the 11th time, you reach a point where enough is enough and you can't trust them any more.
I acknowledge this is a point of view deeply believed by many. And I acknowledge that there have indeed been cases where corrupt officials broke the rules or acted in ways that undermine the integrity of the law enforcement departments or agencies in which they serve.

Examples that come immediately to mind when I think of this include the four white police officers that murdered George Floyd, and then Attorney General Bill Bar front-running the Mueller investigation, to benefit Donald Trump; he hindered the report's release and put an advanced, narrative-defining spin on it, instead of simply letting the report speak for itself.

I am one of those Americans you mentioned. I "desperately want to put our full faith in federal law enforcement." I want to believe our systems are fair and the people vested with the authority to run them are also fair. But because I know officers are human and human corruption sometimes happens, I also know we cannot give law enforcement a blank check. Law enforcement knows that too, which is why they have rules that require warrants, inspector generals, internal affairs departments, and why we sometimes see police officers investigate and arrest fellow officers.

One of the times I sat with others in a jury pool being questioned by the judge and attorneys, I heard a prospective juror tell the judge she could never side against the police. Judging from her emotional tone, she seemed to mean what she said. Her son is a police officer, she said, and a police officer's word is always true, always unimpeachable. While she may have been acting in bad faith and said that to get disqualified from jury duty (which happened), my sense was she deeply believed what she said. In her mind, if the police arrest someone, they are guilty and the police always act appropriately. And if they don't, there is certainly an alternative theory that can be produced to take their side and make the police always right.

Just as it is unwise to believe the police, or the Justice Department, is always right and their motives are always pure. it is unwise to believe they are always wrong and their motives are always corrupt.
 
Last edited:

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I acknowledge this is a point of view deeply believed by many. And I acknowledge that there have indeed been cases where corrupt officials broke the rules or acted in ways that undermine the integrity of the law enforcement departments or agencies in which they serve.

Examples that come immediately to mind when I think of this include the four white police officers that murdered George Floyd, and then Attorney General Bill Bar front-running the Mueller investigation, to benefit Donald Trump; hindering the report's release and putting a narrative-defining spin on it, instead of simply letting the report speak for itself.

I am one of those Americans who "desperately want to put our full faith in federal law enforcement," but because I know officers are human and human corruption sometimes happens, I also know we cannot give law enforcement a blank check. Law enforcement knows that too, which is why they have inspector generals and internal affairs departments, and why we sometimes see police officers investigate and arrest fellow officers.

One of the times I reported for jury duty and sat in the pool being questioned by the judge and attorneys, I heard a prospective juror tell the judge she could never side against the police. Judging from her emotional tone, she seemed to be talking from her heart. She meant what she said. Her son is a police officer, she said, and a police officer's word is always true, always unimpeachable. Now she may have said that to get disqualified from jury duty (which happened) but my sense was she deeply believed that. In her mind, if the police arrest someone, they are guilty and the police always act appropriately. And if they don't, there is certainly an alternative theory that can be produced to take their side and make the police always right.

Just as it is not wise to believe the police, or the Justice Department, is always right and their motives are always pure. it is not wose to believe they are always wrong and their motives are always corrupt.
The four officers involved in George Floyd’s death weren’t all white.
Floyd had a lethal level of fentanyl in his system and had heart disease.
But an illustration of why transparency is important comes from an order from a judge to release information about a former DC medical examiner attempting to pressure the Floyd ME to change his preliminary findings in the case.
8E027225-689D-46A5-9B87-7F817E1028FF.jpeg36C307DA-432E-4E44-9696-92B42685D8A0.jpeg7B97FBB0-0360-48E0-8A33-78D84D6A6743.jpeg

 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: RLENT

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Just as it is unwise to believe the police, or the Justice Department, is always right and their motives are always pure. it is unwise to believe they are always wrong and their motives are always corrupt.
I don't believe anyone is saying or implying that the FBI/DOJ are always wrong and corrupt. The discussion is specifically about their conduct involving Trump. In cases involving him and some of his associates they've repeatedly demonstrated an obvious political bias against him since he announced his candidacy. With that in mind, it's fair to wonder if this bias will be contained only with Trump, or will it be extended to the next conservative Republican candidate? How will they treat Ron DeSantis if he's the GOP's next nominee?
 
Top