The Trump Card...

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
.......perhaps then an explanation can be given for Trump's treasonous actions. :pokepoke: :)
Dont count on it. His supporters will call it a fake court and continue to make excuses and keep wearing blinders to the obvious.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Fair enough ....
We're going to have to wait for the court cases to provide the details. When it does get proved that Trump was influenced and made decisions based on advise from these guys, perhaps then an explanation can be given for Trump's treasonous actions. :pokepoke: :)
Influenced, maybe. The reason I'm not comfortable with "infiltrated" is, infiltrate, verb, enter or gain access to (an organization, place, etc.) surreptitiously and gradually, especially in order to acquire secret information.
After all, I think some are still looking for the reason why Yovanovitch got recalled.
Hint: ask the guys at Fraud Guaranteed.
The reason doesn't matter. Whether anyone agrees with it or not doesn't matter. The President can conduct foreign policy any way he (or she) sees fit, including recalling, reassigning or firing an ambassador.

Occam's Razor says the simplest explanation is usually the right one. In this case, the new Ukrainian president didn't like Yovanovich at all, mainly because she liked the previous corrupt Ukrainian president better and didn't like the new one at all.
 

blackpup

Veteran Expediter
Possibly the Democrats are fearful that a Ukraine can of worms opening up will reflect badly on President Obama's administration
 

Grizzly

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Influenced, maybe. The reason I'm not comfortable with "infiltrated" is, infiltrate, verb, enter or gain access to (an organization, place, etc.) surreptitiously and gradually, especially in order to acquire secret information.
The reason doesn't matter. Whether anyone agrees with it or not doesn't matter. The President can conduct foreign policy any way he (or she) sees fit, including recalling, reassigning or firing an ambassador.

Occam's Razor says the simplest explanation is usually the right one. In this case, the new Ukrainian president didn't like Yovanovich at all, mainly because she liked the previous corrupt Ukrainian president better and didn't like the new one at all.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I think infiltrated fits but if you don't like that word .. how about penetrated! Yep, I think that works. Trump was penetrated, our country was penetrated, our entire democracy was penetrated! Trump got got! He and his good 'ol freind Rudy thought they would simply conduct foreign diplomacy on their own. They'd show everyone how easy this stuff is. As President, Trump thinks he can do whatever he wants and if Rudy gets into any real trouble, Trump can pardon him later. In reality, they look like two keystone cops.

Yes, I think we're all aware the President can conduct foreign policy any which way he wants. Are you really saying the POTUS's reasons for making decisions don't matter? Really? Let's look at this a different way because I think Muttly is getting overwhelmed. Let's say the country was Argentina or ... Columbia. Two Colombian businessmen, that are associates with a very close friend of the POTUS, illegally donate a few hundred thousand dollars to a superPac that supports the POTUS. These two businessmen tell the POTUS, through their mutual friend, that the Ambassador to Columbia is a royal pain in the ass. She stands in the way of doing business and seeing as how she's a chick anyway, she's gotta be replaced. The POTUS replaces the Ambassador to Columbia based on nothing but the recommendation from these two crooked businessmen. That doesn't startle you? This is where folks on here start to loose credibility with me ..... it should startle all of us.

"In this case, the new Ukrainian president didn't like Yovanovich at all, mainly because she liked the previous corrupt Ukrainian president better and didn't like the new one at all."

Can you please explain how you're drawing this conclusion?
 
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Grizzly

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Possibly the Democrats are fearful that a Ukraine can of worms opening up will reflect badly on President Obama's administration

You nailed it. Oh, no wait ... perhaps it's got something to do with Hilary too.
Binary choices are doing some serious damage to this country.
 
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Thanks for answering the question directly.
Are you saying Trump wasn't infiltrated by Parnas & Fruman through Giuliani?
Could care less. Bored to tears hearing anything about Ukraine and especially about Purvas and Freeman. And most people don't care as well.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
"In this case, the new Ukrainian president didn't like Yovanovich at all, mainly because she liked the previous corrupt Ukrainian president better and didn't like the new one at all."

Can you please explain how you're drawing this conclusion?
That isn't a conclusion that I drew, I watched the hearings and heard three different career foreign service professionals say that very thing. Plus Yovanovitch herself said she had a much better working relationship with the previous Ukrainian president she did with the current president.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
With all eyes on the impeachment inquiry in the House, it's easy to let the courts fade from view. How is Trump doing in the courts? Here's a review of three cases:

1. Blumenthal v. Trump, an emoluments case. Judge denied Trump's motion to dismiss and ruled the plaintiffs have standing to continue the case.

2. Maryland and DC v. Trump, an emoluments case. After a three-judge Appeals Court panel ruled in favor of Trump and ordered the case thrown out, that court's full bench decided to take up the case which will be heard on 12/12/19.

3. CREW v. Trump, an emoluments case. U.S. District Judge George B. Daniels dismissed the case on December 21, 2017, holding that plaintiffs lacked standing. On appeal, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit reversed the dismissal, reinstated the suit, and remanded the case to the district court for further proceedings.

Thus, all three emoluments cases remain live and are proceeding. In all three cases, the most-recent rulings have gone against Trump.

Also of interest (to me at least) are four other cases:

1. The case in which Trump is suing to quash a New York State subpoena that would provide the Manhattan D.A. with Trump's tax records. At the appellate level, both sides have agreed to certain conditions that are likely to speed this case to the Supreme Court, which both sides appear to want..

2. The case in which Trump is suing to quash the subpoena that would provide the House Oversight Committee access to the Trump financial data specified in the subpoena.

3. The case in which Trump is suing to quash the subpoena that would provide the House Ways and Means Committee access to the Trump financial data specified in the subpoena.

4. The case in which the Justice Department was recently ordered by the Court to release certain grand jury materials from former special counsel Mueller’s investigation to the House Judiciary Committee amid its impeachment inquiry.

It is tedious to track these cases. I'll try to provide a better summary as time permits.

"WASHINGTON — The U.S. Supreme Court agreed Friday to hear President Donald Trump's appeal of lower court orders, now on hold, that require his banks and accountants to turn over financial records to the House and local prosecutors in New York.

'By granting review of these cases now, the justices made it possible for them to be heard during the current court term, most likely in March, with a decision by the end of June ..." (Source)

Most people believed these three financial records cases would end up in the Supreme Court. Now we know the Court will consider all three at once and will issue it's decision(s) by June.
 

Moot

Veteran Expediter
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So let me ask this, do you think he did something wrong or do you not care? If you think he didnt do anything wrong thats one thing, but if you dont care well then that signals the begining of the end, we already have a good portion of the population that thinks that the law does not apply to them, and now if people dont care if the president broke the law why should anyone follow the law?


So let me ask this, do you think Biden did something wrong or do you not care? If you think he didn't do anything wrong that's one thing. But if you don't care well then that signals the beginning of the end. We already have a good portion of the population that thinks that the law does not apply to them. And now if people don't care if the vice- president broke the law why should anyone follow the law?
 

coalminer

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
So let me ask this, do you think Biden did something wrong or do you not care? If you think he didn't do anything wrong that's one thing. But if you don't care well then that signals the beginning of the end. We already have a good portion of the population that thinks that the law does not apply to them. And now if people don't care if the vice- president broke the law why should anyone follow the law?
If he had any business dealings in Ukraine, then he did things that would be considered corrupt, that is the way that entire country works. I will say that when it comes to a trial in the Senate, and they do call Hunter to the stand and put him under oath and he says he was not involved with any corruption and it comes out later that he did, the impeachment trial will kill 2 birds with one stone.

Either way the Democrats win, the easiest thing would be for the republicans to turn against him and impeach him. The other thing would be for the trial to convince enough of his supporters to not vote for his re election, and as we all know, it wouldnt really take that many people to flip and he does not get another 4 years.
 

Turtle

Administrator
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Retired Expediter
When you have a focus group in order to decide what wording to use in impeachment charges, you know there's no factual basis for the impeachment. When you have 84 House Dems come out on record in favor of Impeachment months before the whistleblower stunt was even conceived, you know there's no factual for the impeachment. When Democrats demand Mitch McConnell recuse himself as being biased, and demand Chuck Schumer be in charge of the Senate impeachment proceedings, because Schumer can be, like, totally, unbiased and impartial, you know the Dems aren't even living in reality any more.
 
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