The Trump Card...

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
This Benjamin Whittes character. He wrote a book a while back about Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr and his excessive truth seeking mission as said Prosecutor, but now BW is singing a different tune. It's all about SP Robert Mueller getting Trump as he cheers from his Twitter cheap seats. Hypocrisy much?

You need to keep in mind that this thing is a hybrid - it's a combo counter-Intel/criminal investigation ... and the question of Cheeto's or his associates involvement is actually peripheral or adjacent to the main purpose: investigating a hostile foreign power's efforts to interfere in, and influence our elections.

Starr's investigation lasted a lot longer than Mueller's has thus far ... and Bobby Three Sticks is rollin' hard, rackin' up the indictments - the majority of which, at this point, are foreign nationals of a hostile foreign power.

Of course for some, the possibility that their Orange god might be ultimately ensnared, is driving them nuts ... literally.




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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This Benjamin Whittes character. He wrote a book a while back about Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr and his excessive truth seeking mission as said Prosecutor, but now BW is singing a different tune. It's all about SP Robert Mueller getting Trump as he cheers from his Twitter cheap seats. Hypocrisy much?

You need to keep in mind that this thing is a hybrid - it's a combo counter-Intel/criminal investigation ... and the question of Cheeto's or his associates involvement is actually peripheral or adjacent to the main purpose: investigating a hostile foreign power's efforts to interfere in, and influence our elections.

Starr's investigation lasted a lot longer than Mueller's has thus far ... and Bobby Three Sticks is rollin' hard, rackin' up the indictments - the majority of which, at this point, are foreign nationals of a hostile foreign power.

Of course for some, the possibility that their Orange god might be ultimately ensnared, is driving them nuts ... literally.




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Still nothing of Trump Campaign colluding with Russia to influence election.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Still nothing of Trump Campaign colluding with Russia to influence election.

There's certainly no DIRECT EVIDENCE of that ... that we know of anyways ...

But there is a lot of circumstantial evidence.

And I'm given to understand that quite often in conspiracy cases the bulk of evidence is circumstantial.


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davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Still nothing of Trump Campaign colluding with Russia to influence election.

There's certainly no DIRECT EVIDENCE of that ... that we know of anyways ...

But there is a lot of circumstantial evidence.

And I'm given to understand that quite often in conspiracy cases the bulk of evidence is circumstantial.


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You mean like looking at the DNC and the Clintons? :D
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Still nothing of Trump Campaign colluding with Russia to influence election.

There's certainly no DIRECT EVIDENCE of that ... that we know of anyways ...

But there is a lot of circumstantial evidence.

And I'm given to understand that quite often in conspiracy cases the bulk of evidence is circumstantial.


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You mean like looking at the DNC and the Clintons? :D
Naah, nothing to see there. Move right along now. :D
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter

Geez ... not hard to see why you're having difficulty here.

That isn't the rebuttal ... it's an article by a (currently unemployed ?) reporter who is now blogging and apparently is a Faux Nuuz "Contributor" named Sara Carter ... which attempts to CHARACTERIZE what is actually being rebutted.

Here's the actual "rebuttal":

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/democrat_memo_key_points.pdf

Give me a holler if you need anymore help.




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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
You mean like looking at the DNC and the Clintons? :D

Yes, exactly ... with one major difference: there isn't an ongoing criminal investigation targeted towards the Clintons or the DNC.

That should be a clue.

DOJ may be looking into how the Clinton email investigation was handled ... or maybe even her actions as SOS ... but it's not likely to result in any consequences for her ... even if there were something there, it's likely outside the statute of limitations at this point.

And if you're hanging your hopes on the DOJ OIG report, I wouldn't get them up too high ... they've already cleared McCabe once with regards to his recusal ... and if there's some second-guessing (in hindsight) on decisions that were made, it isn't likely to rise to malevolent malfeasance IMO (aka criminal culpability)

It's like Gowdy said (my paraphrase) "Even if you disagree with the judgments made and think they were wrong on the merits, you have to (if you have any honor and integrity and aren't a complete partisan hack) ... have to recognize that those decisions were made in good faith."

IOW: Reasonable people can differ on what to do, given the same facts and circumstances.

There doesn't necessarily have to ALWAYS be nefarious partisan motivations at work - sometimes it's just a difference of opinion.

If I had to guess, I'd say that career civil servants generally are probably a lot less partisan than some imagine them to be.

Also, generally speaking, I would say that they probably have a higher sense of duty to country than to any allegiance to a political party.

That is not something I can say at present for fanatical partisans.




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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You mean like looking at the DNC and the Clintons? :D

Yes, exactly ... with one major difference: there isn't an ongoing criminal investigation targeted towards the Clintons or the DNC.

That should be a clue.

DOJ may be looking into how the Clinton email investigation was handled ... or maybe even her actions as SOS ... but it's not likely to result in any consequences for her ... even if there were something there, it's likely outside the statute of limitations at this point.

And if you're hanging your hopes on the DOJ OIG report, I wouldn't get them up too high ... they've already cleared McCabe once with regards to his recusal ... and if there's some second-guessing (in hindsight) on decisions that were made, it isn't likely to rise to malevolent malfeasance IMO (aka criminal culpability)

It's like Gowdy said (my paraphrase) "Even if you disagree with the judgments made and think they were wrong, you have to (if you have any honor and integrity and aren't a complete partisan hack) have to recognize that those decisions were made in good faith."

IOW: Reasonable people can differ on what to do, given the same facts and circumstances.

There doesn't necessarily have to be nefarious partisan motivations at work - sometimes it's just a difference of opinion.

If I had to guess, I'd say that career civil servants generally are probably a lot less partisan than some imagine them to be.

Also, generally speaking, I would say that they probably have a higher sense of duty to country than to any allegiance to a political party.

That is not something I can say at present for fanatical partisans.




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Since you mentioned Trey Gowdy, the Comey memos ( to himself) come to mind. In his opinion,(Gowdy has seen the memos) they would be a defendant's exhibit A evidence against prosecution for obstruction of Justice.
That and Comey's testimony that said he wasn't pressured to drop an investigation.
No collusion and no obstruction of justice.
Too bad, so sad. :D
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
If I had to guess, I'd say that career civil servants generally are probably a lot less partisan than some imagine them to be.
Fortunately, you don't have to guess. You can look it up. And when you do, you will find that not only are civil servants more partisan, they are overwhelmingly partisan Democrats. The Democratic Party is historically the party of government, of expanding government and increasing civil servant wages. The Republican Party is historically the party of reducing the size of government. There's a certain amount of self-preservation in being a partisan Democrat for a civil servant.

OpenSecrets has a pretty eye opening page on political contributions by civil servants.

OpenSecrets.PNG

And The Hill has an interesting article back from a couple of weeks before the election that showcases the eye-popping disparity in political donations by government employees.
The Hill said:
Employees of the Department of Justice, which investigated Clinton’s use of a private email server while she was secretary of State, gave Clinton 97 percent of their donations. Trump received $8,756 from DOJ employees compared with $286,797 for Clinton. From IRS employees, Clinton received 94 percent of donations.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You mean like looking at the DNC and the Clintons? :D

Yes, exactly ... with one major difference: there isn't an ongoing criminal investigation targeted towards the Clintons or the DNC.

That should be a clue.

DOJ may be looking into how the Clinton email investigation was handled ... or maybe even her actions as SOS ... but it's not likely to result in any consequences for her ... even if there were something there, it's likely outside the statute of limitations at this point.

And if you're hanging your hopes on the DOJ OIG report, I wouldn't get them up too high ... they've already cleared McCabe once with regards to his recusal ... and if there's some second-guessing (in hindsight) on decisions that were made, it isn't likely to rise to malevolent malfeasance IMO (aka criminal culpability)

It's like Gowdy said (my paraphrase) "Even if you disagree with the judgments made and think they were wrong on the merits, you have to (if you have any honor and integrity and aren't a complete partisan hack) ... have to recognize that those decisions were made in good faith."

IOW: Reasonable people can differ on what to do, given the same facts and circumstances.

There doesn't necessarily have to ALWAYS be nefarious partisan motivations at work - sometimes it's just a difference of opinion.

If I had to guess, I'd say that career civil servants generally are probably a lot less partisan than some imagine them to be.

Also, generally speaking, I would say that they probably have a higher sense of duty to country than to any allegiance to a political party.

That is not something I can say at present for fanatical partisans.




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You mean like looking at the DNC and the Clintons? :D

Yes, exactly ... with one major difference: there isn't an ongoing criminal investigation targeted towards the Clintons or the DNC.

That should be a clue.

DOJ may be looking into how the Clinton email investigation was handled ... or maybe even her actions as SOS ... but it's not likely to result in any consequences for her ... even if there were something there, it's likely outside the statute of limitations at this point.

And if you're hanging your hopes on the DOJ OIG report, I wouldn't get them up too high ... they've already cleared McCabe once with regards to his recusal ... and if there's some second-guessing (in hindsight) on decisions that were made, it isn't likely to rise to malevolent malfeasance IMO (aka criminal culpability)

It's like Gowdy said (my paraphrase) "Even if you disagree with the judgments made and think they were wrong on the merits, you have to (if you have any honor and integrity and aren't a complete partisan hack) ... have to recognize that those decisions were made in good faith."

IOW: Reasonable people can differ on what to do, given the same facts and circumstances.

There doesn't necessarily have to ALWAYS be nefarious partisan motivations at work - sometimes it's just a difference of opinion.

If I had to guess, I'd say that career civil servants generally are probably a lot less partisan than some imagine them to be.

Also, generally speaking, I would say that they probably have a higher sense of duty to country than to any allegiance to a political party.

That is not something I can say at present for fanatical partisans.




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The Steele Dossier, the Strzok and Page text messages,McCabe,DoJ's Bruce and Nellie Ohr, the DNC'S and Clinton Campaign's funding of the Dossier that used sources in Russia. Those are just a few that Mueller's team should be looking at closely. Those are all things that should have arisen from their mandate :
"any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation."
But Mueller's team isn't looking at any of that because it is filled with mostly Clinton supporters. So yes, there is partisan hackery going on.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
The Steele Dossier, the Strzok and Page text messages,McCabe,DoJ's Bruce and Nellie Ohr, the DNC'S and Clinton Campaign's funding of the Dossier that used sources in Russia. Those are just a few that Mueller's team should be looking at closely. Those are all things that should have arisen from their mandate :

"any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation."

But Mueller's team isn't looking at any of that because it is filled with mostly Clinton supporters.
Well, in actual fact, you have no idea what they are looking at, what they have looked at, or what they may look at in the future ...

Nobody does ... except maybe Rod Rosenstein.

Because they don't leak.

So yes, there is partisan hackery going on.
And this post I'm replying to is sounding pretty whiny ...

Care for some cheese to go with it ?



BTW:

Mueller = Republican

Rosenstein = Republican



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