The Trump Card...

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
CNN uses Abramson a really, really lot. But even Huffpo mostly gives him the side eye these days. WaPo and NYT thinks he's a crackpot.
BUT BUT BUT ... aren't those the "fake news" guys ?

The guys that abhor those mere amateurs from outside the "MSM Club" treading on the holy ground they've reserved for themselves ?

In his own mind, though, Seth is a superhero.
He's not the only individual out there that suffers from that affliction, rest assured.



He teaches creative writing and plays with Legos. He's an academic.
He's also an attorney and a former public defender - experience that might be relevant to assessing matters related to criminal law.

One thing he darn sure isn't, is a guy sitting in a truck in a parking lot somewhere.

(On the Lego's, everybody has interests and hobbies ... could be anything ... music, model trains, firearms ... tropical fish ... who knows ?)



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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
BUT BUT BUT ... aren't those the "fake news" guys ?

The guys that abhor those mere amateurs from outside the "MSM Club" treading on the holy ground they've reserved for themselves ?
Yep. So when even those guys think you're even too crackpot for them, it's worth taking note of it.
He's also an attorney and a former public defender - experience that might be relevant to assessing matters related to criminal law.
A), he is a former attorney who never actually worked full time as an attorney, B), he moonlighted as a PD while in college, and C), he's not assessing matters related to criminal law, he's "theory testing." If you want to vigorously defend his claims, that's one thing, but you may want to reassess such a defense of his credentials or him personally.

One thing he darn sure isn't, is a guy sitting in a truck in a parking lot somewhere.
I realize it's very difficult for you to have a debate sans the ad hominem, bread and butter being what it is, but it's going to be way better if you could stick to the issues.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Yep. So when even those guys think you're even too crackpot for them, it's worth taking note of it.
Ok ... in that case: noted

That still doesn't resolve the vested interest establishment media have with regard to people from outside the club stepping on their terrain.

Remember Cokie Roberts ?



A), he is a former attorney, who never actually worked full time as an attorney, B), he moonlighted as a PD while in college,
Oh really ?

Former ?

Did he surrender his law license or get disbarred ?

"A graduate of Harvard Law School, Seth worked for nine years as a criminal defense attorney and criminal investigator and is now a tenure-track professor of Communication Arts and Sciences at University of New Hampshire. His teaching areas include digital journalism, post-internet cultural theory, post-internet writing, and legal advocacy (legal writing, case method, and trial advocacy).

Trained as a criminal investigator at Georgetown University (1996) and then the Harvard Criminal Justice Institute (2000-2001), Seth is a member in good standing of both the New Hampshire Bar and the Federal Bar for the District of New Hampshire. He's worked for four public defenders— three state and one federal—representing over 2,000 criminal defendants over that time in cases ranging from juvenile delinquency to first-degree murder. He first testified in federal court as a defense investigator at the age of 19; represented his first homicide client at the age of 22 as a Rule 33 attorney for the Boston Trial Unit of the Committee for Public Counsel Services (CPCS); and won his first first-degree murder trial at 29. After working for CPCS on major felonies (called "non-concurrent felonies" in Massachusetts) in Dorchester District Court and Boston Municipal Court in 1999 and 2000, Seth represented clients in Roxbury District Court through the Harvard Criminal Justice Clinic from 2000 to 2001. Between 2001 and 2007, he was a staff attorney for the Nashua Trial Unit of the New Hampshire Public Defender, working cases in six district courts in southern New Hampshire as well as in Hillsborough County Superior Court (Southern Division)."

That's from his bio and it does not seem to exactly comport with your representation of the man's experience or his work history ... but I allow that I may be misreading something (either you or him)

Now, I wasn't there to personally witness any of the above - just as you weren't there to witness the representations you have made about him (IOW: we're both operating off 2nd hand info) - but it does seem to that the man ought to familiar with own work history and experience.

Beyond that, it seems to me that carelessly over-inflating such things can get one in a bit of trouble.

and C), he's not assessing matters related to criminal law, he's "theory testing."
I'd say he's doing both ... but I respect your opinion.

If you want to vigorously defend his claims, that's one thing, but you may want to reassess such a defense of his credentials or him personally.
Like I said: I can't vouch for his credentials (or him personally for that matter) but I do think - as a fan of critical thinking like you are - that any claims he makes deserved to be examined on their individual merits ... rather than simply dismissing them out of hand, just because a few folks in the media don't like him or have leveled some criticism - perhaps even on an unwarranted basis - at him.

After all, that's something someone could do to either one of us ... and that just doesn't seem entirely fair.

It seems to me that such an examination would actually be "sticking to the issues" (as presented by ol' Seth, as he sees them anyways) ... as opposed to character assassination of someone who isn't here to defend themselves.

Those are my thoughts anyways.



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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Based on what ?
Based on the fact that he presents a conclusion and then works his way backwards from there. Based on the fact that he's very selective in which public reports he chooses to use to support his conclusion, using reports that support him, even reports from dubious sources, and rejects any contrary reports. Based on the fact that he's never done any of his own independent research and has conducted no interviews with any of the principles involved. And, his conclusion is based on the unknown, on a conspiracy theory that began with the super sekrit VIP-only meeting behind closed doors where, despite not knowing a single thing about the meeting, Abramson was able to conclude what was discussed, and did it all based on a hotel booking. In the conspiracy mind-set, even the most mundane details reveal a deeper plot, and bolsters a conclusion, and that's what Abramson engages in.

In whose opinion ?
Mine of course. I only speak for myself. But also anyone who employs a healthy skepticism regarding news stories and outrageous claims. The more outrageous (and complicated) the claim, the more proof required.

Oh really ?

Former ?

Did he surrender his law license or get disbarred ?
Your response, including copy and pasting his self-composed bio, is nearly vertaim the response I expected. In my opinion, I think you are going to great lengths to defend Abramson not only as an authority, but one who should be believed, primarily because you agree with some or all of his conclusions. Be that as it may, he has written in the past about how even as he worked as an attorney that he has never not taken at least one class at a college since graduating from Harvard. He's either been a full-time or part-time student, or a teacher, in academia. He stated that be no longer is a practicing attorney and that he prefers academia to legal work. It's why he teaches digital journalism and creative writing rather than practicing law.

Beyond that, it seems to me that carelessly over-inflating such things can get one in a bit of trouble.
Yep. Carelessly overinflating anything can be problematic.

Like I said: I can't vouch for his credentials (or him personally for that matter) but I do think - as a fan of critical thinking like you are - that any claims he makes deserved to be examined on their individual merits ... rather than simply dismissing them out of hand, just because a few folks in the media don't like him or have leveled some criticism - perhaps even on an unwarranted basis - at him.
You seem to be implying that I would dismiss him out of hand and have not looked at his claims individually, and even worse, suggesting that I have allow myself to be hoodwinked by the clueless clowns of the media. Fact is, I first became aware of him when CNN began using him to push their narrative, and in my research about him and in reading his writings, I have run across very few criticisms of him outside of the MSM, with the exception being, of course, a few wacko bloggers who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

It seems to me that such an examination would actually be "sticking to the issues" (as presented by ol' Seth, as he sees them anyways) ... as opposed to character assassination of someone who isn't here to defend themselves.

Those are my thoughts anyways.
Actually, Seth didn't present squat here, you presented Seth's thoughts. It's actually rather rare when we get to read your thoughts, as opposed to links to others' thoughts. If you would like to talk about the theories Seth has proposed, and discuss why you think they're valid, I'd probably be willing to engage in such a discussion. But since none of his grandiose conclusions have yet to be substantiated,

Saying someone isn't credible because you don't believe them to be credible is hardly character assassination. I don't believe him to be credible because he engages in the classic conspiracy theorist's tactics of the idea that every fact is knowable and every speculative suspicion becomes justified, just so long as you make the right connections and assumptions. He uses a lot of if X then Y reasoning, and X a lot of the time is a very sketchy source of information. He posted a straight-up lie, that Trump admitted to committing a crime (obstruction of justice), which a lawyer should know better in doing.

Just because someone has a Juris doctorate does not make them an authority on anything, much less that they should be held above reproach. CNN's Jeffrey Toobin and FNC's Jay Sekulow, wingnuts both, drive home that fact on a near-daily basis.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Benjamin Whittes
Didn't he take Comey's leak and publish it in the New York Times so as to get a Special Prosecutor appointed? Bias much?
David French. Wasn't he a failed Never Trump Presidential candidate and former butler on the tv show Family Affair?
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Benjamin Whittes
Didn't he take Comey's leak and publish it in the New York Times so as to get a Special Prosecutor appointed?
No ... that was:

Who is the Daniel Richman, the 'good friend' who leaked Comey's private memo?

... but don't let actual facts stop you:

Bias much?
"BUT ... BIASSSS !!!"

(Also, probably ... BUT HER EMAILS !!! )

It is true that Wittes is a longtime friend of James Comey ... but can you address the merits any of the points he raises ?

Or is "bias much?" really the best you have ?



David French. Wasn't he a failed Never Trump Presidential candidate and former butler on the tv show Family Affair?
No and no.

Never decided to run, therefore: not actually a candidate.

He is a military veteran and is a major in the United States Army Reserve.

Additionally, French is actually a lawyer who served in Iraq as a JAG Squadron General (that's a lawyer to you Mister) ... which beats the Teat Squeezer's three degrees in "COW" ... hands down ...

Your command of actual facts seems as dubious as some others on here.



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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
That's it? Lol

Assuming that you figured out that there's actually 10 pages there that you might have to scroll to see:

150% more factual content than The Squeezer's best effort ... and more filling ...




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muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That's it? Lol

Assuming that you figured out that there's actually 10 pages there that you might have to scroll to see:

150% more factual content than The Squeezer's best effort ... and more filling ...




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Wow, 10 pages and didn't use any space to rebutt Republicans' claim that McCabe said Dossier was essential to secure FISA warrant. #10pageDmemoofnotherethere.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Benjamin Whittes
Didn't he take Comey's leak and publish it in the New York Times so as to get a Special Prosecutor appointed?
No ... that was:

Who is the Daniel Richman, the 'good friend' who leaked Comey's private memo?

... but don't let actual facts stop you:

Bias much?
"BUT ... BIASSSS !!!"

(Also, probably ... BUT HER EMAILS !!! )

It is true that Wittes is a longtime friend of James Comey ... but can you address the merits any of the point raises ?

Or is "bias much?" really the best you have ?



David French. Wasn't he a failed Never Trump Presidential candidate and former butler on the tv show Family Affair?
No and no.

Never decided to run, therefore: not actually a candidate.

He is a military veteran and is a major in the United States Army Reserve.

Additionally, French is actually a lawyer who served in Iraq as a JAG Squadron General (that's a lawyer to you Mister) ... which beats the Teat Squeezer's three degrees in "COW" ... hands down ...

Your command of actual facts seems as dubious as some others on here.



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Yeah, I got those East Coast bubble BFF's of Comey mixed up. Peas in the pod protecting the swamp though all the same.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
This Benjamin Whittes character. He wrote a book a while back about Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr and his excessive truth seeking mission as said Prosecutor, but now BW is singing a different tune. It's all about SP Robert Mueller getting Trump as he cheers from his Twitter cheap seats. Hypocrisy much?
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Wow, 10 pages and didn't use any space to rebutt Republicans' claim that McCabe said Dossier was essential to secure FISA warrant. #10pageDmemoofnotherethere.

It's already been disputed ... and with The Teat Squeezer's unwillingness to release McCabe's actual testimony to public (why is that BTW ? ) what be the point of repeating it one more time ?




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