The Trump Card...

[Turtle]

This is not a speech issue. The violation occurred because Trump Jr et. al. solicited something of value from a foreign national. This is not about what was said. It's about what was sought.

A) Trump Jr didn't solicit anything. He was approached by someone else.
B) There was no violation of anything.

and the eagerness it shows on the part of the campaign to obtain what was then believed to be information from the Russian government.

Seems clear enough that the eagerness was more in the context of receiving opposition research, regardless of its origin, rather than an eagerness in obtaining information from the Russian government.

And, now we can add the "everybody would do it" defense

Actually, it's more of a "everybody does it, and has been doing it for years" defense, because it's not illegal. For example, we know for sure that the Hillary campaign, as well as the DNC, met with foreign governments, in their embassies, to obtain opposition research information about Trump and members of his campaign team. Legal.

 

[muttly]

I'm sorry if you rally believe this is all Fake News. You do realize that, while the press is many time slanted and partisan, while the press may be to eager to be first with "breaking news", and that they sometimes get it wrong, this whole "Russia Thing" is NOT fake news. IMHO "Fake News" is a "Fake Term" to support our Presidents alternate reality. The "Russia Thing" is real and it WILL bring him down either next year or next election, but it won't be because of Russia, like Nixon, it will be the cover up that does him in.

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So what did Trump or his associates do again that was so illegal with this Russian thing? You say it's real. A real nothingburger.
The fake news media, many Democrat politicians, and some hysterical ones that are calling it treason.(Tim Kaine) They despise Trump real bad and can't accept his presidency so they will continue endlessly with this phony Russian scandal. The ones that believe this Russian thing are just being duped. The Fake News media talks about it all day long so the duped believe there must be something there. Just a bunch of Cool Hand Luke 'nothing'.

 

[Turtle]

They despise Trump real bad and can't accept his presidency so they will continue endlessly with this phony Russian scandal.

The ones calling it treason are the ones that most crack me up (and find the most disturbing). Setting aside the fact that they are embarrassingly ignorant of the law (they think an adversarial or hostile government is the same as an enemy we are actually actively at war with), they have morhped "not illegal" into "capital crime." Even if they do somehow prove collusion, which so far they got nothing, collusion isn't illegal.

Since the inauguration this is the 10th smoking gun bombshell revelation. The previous 9 have had a shelf life of about a week. I don't see this one with any added preservatives, either.

I do think it's interesting that with every bombshell so far, real, actual illegal activity is exposed on the part of the Obama administration and the Clinton campaign that certainly warrants a complete and thorough investigation. The Press doesn't want anything to do with it, though.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

IMO some of this Trump stuff is just plain inexperience coming from a NON political family..that is used to doing what they want and when they want too without question...Trump Jr should have walked away and said No Thanks..but his curiousity got the better of him...and now we have yet another issue...I really think its a lot to do about nothing..

I worry that the Dems are firing up the people by thier own lies and the radical liberals are rioting and doing violence in the streets...Pelosi and others should be charged for thier actions of all this mayhem they are pushing

 

[ATeam]

I hope readers notice that I seldom cite or react to news reports that quote an unnamed source. The Trump Jr. email chain is different because the source is named. It's Trump Jr. himself. The set of facts the Trump Jr. document contains is not fake. It's not from the media. It's not from the Democrats. It's not from the deep state. It's not from an unnamed source. It's real. It's intentionally published by one of the most trusted people in Trump circles.

With that set of facts now out there, it falls to each of us to interpret the facts. Two people are walking together on a road. Both see and agree there is a rock in the road ahead. That is a fact. What does it mean? Does it mean anything at all? That's for the walkers to decide.

The problem for all of us regarding "this Russia thing" (Trump's words), is we are looking from the outside in and it is a developing situation. We are not in the White House. We are not in the Special Counsel's offices. We are out here, learning of developments from news sources like all other citizens. As the information flows, each of us judges the legitimacy of the source and its status as real, fake or something else.

Every so often, something emerges that is unquestionably real. The Trump Jr. e-mail chain is an example. As I described above, when something real emerges, it illuminates past facts in a new light. When that happens, the rock in the road is re-evaluated. In the new light, the rock may turn out to be the world's largest diamond or it might be a sharp-edged hazard compelling caution or it may be both, or it may be something else. Eventually, as the walkers re-examine and reconsider, the new rock facts will become known and likely agreed to.

We spend a lot of time here interpreting the facts as we understand them and re-interpreting previous facts as new light shines. As we do this, it's important to remember that multiple investigations are underway into "this Russia thing" and some of them are authorized to investigate other matters if the facts lead investigators in that direction.

As with the email chain, these investigations are not fake. They are not from the media. They are not from the Democrats. They are not from the deep state. They were not initiated by unnamed entities. They are real. They are initiated and empowered by Republicans and/or the Trump administration itself.

While the House and Senate committee investigations are of some interest to me, they are by their very nature political activities conducted by politicians. The investigation that is of greatest interest to me is that of the Special Counsel. That investigation is led by a law-enforcement professional who is widely known to have an objective respect for the facts.

Last I heard, the Mueller-led investigation has 30 attorneys on board, working every day to ferret out the facts and build a case if there is one to be made. While we spend time here discussing an e-mail chain, 30 attorneys and their support staffs are working behind the scenes to get at the truth. That process is slowed because the president is not cooperating. Instead of inviting investigators in to view all relevant info, he is dismissing the investigation as a witch hunt. Nevertheless, Republican support for the investigation remains strong and the probe continues.

While, I have the same outside view of the Mueller probe all us do, I believe that the 30 investigators are working in good faith to unearth and/or illuminate as many rock facts as they can and thereby establish the truth.

As outsiders, we get dribs and drabs from the media and other sources and we chatter away as new items come into the headlines. We do not yet know what the Muller probe has (if anything). But with their professional expertise, subpoena powers and continuing efforts; I expect the investigators will bring more rock facts to light that we do not now know.

With that in mind, I acknowledge my status as an outsider and patiently wait for the real professionals to complete their real work and bring the real facts to light.

Obviously, behind my patience is my belief that "this Russia thing" is more than a nothing burger. I acknowledge the views of Trump supporters who feel this is fake and a way to delegitimize and halt the Trump agenda. I have privately and respectfully considered that view in depth but conclude differently.

While there is a sad push by irresponsible media organizations to delegitimize Trump at every turn, rock-solid facts continue to emerge. That leaves me grateful legitimate investigations are underway.

 

[muttly]

What's the law again that Trump and/or his team supposedly broke with this Russian thing?

 

[Turtle]

What's the law again that Trump and/or his team supposedly broke with this Russian thing?

The Federal Anti Collusion Act of 2018 (FACA for short)

 

[ATeam]

What's the law again that Trump and/or his team supposedly broke with this Russian thing?

According to the man (Rosenstein) who appointed the Special Counsel (Mueller), it has not yet been determined if any law has been violated.

In the Justice Department news release explaining Rosenstein's decision to appoint a Special Counsel, Rosenstein says, " “My decision is not a finding that crimes have been committed or that any prosecution is warranted. I have made no such determination."

Rosenstein says the investigation is being continued because, "Our nation is grounded on the rule of law, and the public must be assured that government officials administer the law fairly."

The investigation's scope is broader than the possible violation of a particular law or laws. Under ORDER NO. 3915-2017, the Special Counsel is to investigate:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump;and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. §600.4(a)

As far as I know, there is no law that prohibits a presidential campaign from colluding with a foreign government to influence a U.S. election. But if such a thing happened, it is in the public interest for citizens to know, is it not?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

whats the big deal here? Doesn't this country try to influence other countries elections either openly or covertly to get the leader that would favour US policies?
US did not support the German leader nor the new French Leader Macron....just open dialogue about support can have an influence how people may vote....any word who publically Putin supported?>...

 

[Turtle]

As far as I know, there is no law that prohibits a presidential campaign from colluding with a foreign government to influence a U.S. election. But if such a thing happened, it is in the public interest for citizens to know, is it not?

I agree that it is, absolutely, in the public interest to know. And just as there is no law that prohibits a presidential campaign from colluding with a Free Press to influence a US election, it is likewise in the public interest to know. Unfortunately, that same Free Press covers the two equally important stories wildly differently.

 

[muttly]

What's the law again that Trump and/or his team supposedly broke with this Russian thing?

According to the man (Rosenstein) who appointed the Special Counsel (Mueller), it has not yet been determined if any law has been violated.

In the Justice Department news release explaining Rosenstein's decision to appoint a Special Counsel, Rosenstein says, " “My decision is not a finding that crimes have been committed or that any prosecution is warranted. I have made no such determination."

Rosenstein says the investigation is being continued because, "Our nation is grounded on the rule of law, and the public must be assured that government officials administer the law fairly."

The investigation's scope is broader than the possible violation of a particular law or laws. Under ORDER NO. 3915-2017, the Special Counsel is to investigate:

(i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump;and

(ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

(iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. §600.4(a)

As far as I know, there is no law that prohibits a presidential campaign from colluding with a foreign government to influence a U.S. election. But if such a thing happened, it is in the public interest for citizens to know, is it not?

Sure, and so is who is behind this concocted, cockamamie Russian thing.

 

[Worn Out Manager]

Sure, and so is who is behind this concocted, cockamamie Russian thing.

My best guess would be Donald Trump

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[OntarioVanMan]

Ask Putin where Hillary's 33,000 deleted emails are?

 

[Worn Out Manager]

Ask Putin where Hillary's 33,000 deleted emails are?

And that's how Mr T started this whole thing

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[Worn Out Manager]

That, and not being able to stop playing with his Twitter.

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[Ragman]

That, and not being able to stop playing with his Twitter.

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[OntarioVanMan]

Actually it was Comey/Hillary and her private server ...

 

[Turtle]

That, and not being able to stop playing with his Twitter.

In the same way that Hillary used a hammer on her cell phones, I would not be opposed to someone in the White House using a hammer on Trump's fingers every time he reached for the phone.

 

[muttly]

Sure, and so is who is behind this concocted, cockamamie Russian thing.

My best guess would be Donald Trump

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My guess would be Hillary's campaign who gave the Fake News media their marching orders.
Article excerpt below: (emphasis mine)

That strategy had been set within twenty-four hours of her concession speech. Mook and Podesta assembled her communications team at the Brooklyn headquarters to engineer the case that the election wasn’t entirely on the up-and-up. For a couple of hours, with Shake Shack containers littering the room, they went over the script they would pitch to the press and the public. Already, Russian hacking was the centerpiece of the argument.

The Clinton camp settled on a two-pronged plan — pushing the press to cover how “Russian hacking was the major unreported story of the campaign, overshadowed by the contents of stolen e-mails and Hillary’s own private-server imbroglio,” while “hammering the media for focusing so intently on the investigation into her e-mail, which had created a cloud over her candidacy,” the authors wrote.

'Shattered' Revelation: Clinton Campaign Hatched Russian Hacking Narrative 24 Hours After Hillary's Loss

 

[ATeam]

Sure, and so is who is behind this concocted, cockamamie Russian thing.

That is why the investigations are underway, to answer that question.