The Trump Card...

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
this case is significant because the plaintiffs (D.C. and the State of MD) have standing like no others.
Like no others? You mean besides the fact that both state attorneys general are Democrats, who are filling this lawsuit primarily to get at Trump's tax returns?
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
this case is significant because the plaintiffs (D.C. and the State of MD) have standing like no others.
Like no others? You mean besides the fact that both state attorneys general are Democrats, who are filling this lawsuit primarily to get at Trump's tax returns?

I mean standing like no others in the sense expressed in the article: ..."jurisdictions such as the District and Maryland are among the 'most perfect plaintiffs' to sue over emoluments because they have a coequal say in making sure the Constitution is being enforced."

While it may be true that political motivations lie behind this suit, the suit itself voices real questions about how the constitution shall be interpreted and applied regarding a president who has the conflicting interests Trump has and maintains them as Trump does. While some argue there is no conflict, others argue the opposite. This suit, filed by the "most perfect plaintiffs," will allow the question to be properly argued and decisively resolved by the courts.

I believe this case will likely make it to the supreme court. I also believe Trump appointee Goresuch, a constitutional originalist of impeccable integrity, will side not with Trump but with the Founding Fathers who penned the emoluments clauses to protect the country from the misdeeds of a conflicted president.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
..."jurisdictions such as the District and Maryland are among the 'most perfect plaintiffs' to sue over emoluments because they have a coequal say in making sure the Constitution is being enforced."
That's the wishful thinking opinion of one butthurt liberal who is involved with the plaintiffs in the case. There is zero precedent for standing in an emoluments case. There is far more precedent in Congress allowing the exact types of earnings from existing business enterprises of a president.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
..."jurisdictions such as the District and Maryland are among the 'most perfect plaintiffs' to sue over emoluments because they have a coequal say in making sure the Constitution is being enforced."
That's the wishful thinking opinion of one butthurt liberal who is involved with the plaintiffs in the case. There is zero precedent for standing in an emoluments case. There is far more precedent in Congress allowing the exact types of earnings from existing business enterprises of a president.

The question of standing will be one of the first to be decided. We'll know soon enough what the expert arguments of both sides are and what the Court decides. Whatever the outcome may be, I'm delighted to finally see these questions make it meaningfully into the courts where they can be properly argued and decided in keeping with the constitution.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
There are way too many witch hunts in progress, how does anything get done not,,crisis level 100..
What a zoo we are in.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Wasn't there a case already before the Supreme Court like this? If Clintons can give out the Lincoln bedroom, not sure what traction this will get.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Wasn't there a case already before the Supreme Court like this? If Clintons can give out the Lincoln bedroom, not sure what traction this will get.
Plus, the lawyers who are handling the case for the DC and Maryland AGs (or is that AsG?) are the same lawyers who filed the CREW suit on the day of the inauguration. Rather than looking out for the American people, it all seems a tad political.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
Plus, the lawyers who are handling the case for the DC and Maryland AGs (or is that AsG?) are the same lawyers who filed the CREW suit on the day of the inauguration. Rather than looking out for the American people, it all seems a tad political.

Of course it's political. There is no question that the complaint is politically motivated by Democrats who oppose the Trump agenda and are driven by the same partisan myopia that drives Republicans.

This is the self-same myopia that is so pervasive that Democrats and Republicans find it nearly impossible to work with each other for the benefit of the country. They are instead instinctively driven to make it their first goal to defeat the other side. They are not working for the country, they are working against each other.

I don't know American history well enough to say this for sure, but it is my sense that the level of partisanship today is perhaps the highest it has ever been. It seems that everything is politicized to a high degree and that collective mental filter has people at each other's throats. Before an idea is given a fair listening, the partisan instinct kicks in to delegitimize anything that comes from the other side.

So yes, the suit is politically motivated. Unquestionably so.

I don't think it matters much that the emoluments case being made against Trump is politically motivated. The Republican desire to get a case through that will overturn Rowe v. Wade is politically motivated too. Much of what comes before the Court is politically motivated.

When a politically motivated case comes before a court, one of the first things the court does is decide if the case should be allowed to proceed. If the case is without merit, the court dismisses it. If the court decides to hear the case, the political motivations no longer matter. Once the court accepts the case, the legal questions, not the political ones, come to the fore.

Political motivations aside, the constitutional questions this case raises are legitimate to ask. Under the constitution, the courts exist and are empowered and equipped to answer such questions. Part of what makes America great right now, and has made America great for over 200 years is the judicial branch of government.

Trump and his supporters may not like this check on presidential power but our Founding Fathers did.
 
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Worn Out Manager

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
US Air Force
OMG, Trump just threw out a regulation that was intended to force fisherman to be more careful with what they

y accidentally catch in their nets. Under Trump the commercial fisherman will be able to net and destroy many endangered species, including TURTLES

#savetheturtlrz

Sent from my XT1635-01 using EO Forums mobile app
 

RoadTime

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
OMG, Trump just threw out a regulation that was intended to force fisherman to be more careful with what they

y accidentally catch in their nets. Under Trump the commercial fisherman will be able to net and destroy many endangered species, including TURTLES

#savetheturtlrz

Sent from my XT1635-01 using EO Forums mobile app

Do you have a link for this. I have not been able to find anything on this. Fake News? o_O
 

aquitted

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
OMG, Trump just threw out a regulation that was intended to force fisherman to be more careful with what they

y accidentally catch in their nets. Under Trump the commercial fisherman will be able to net and destroy many endangered species, including TURTLES

#savetheturtlrz

Sent from my XT1635-01 using EO Forums mobile app
i believe it was Turtles driving expediting vehicles. (HUMOR):eek:
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I don't know American history well enough to say this for sure, but it is my sense that the level of partisanship today is perhaps the highest it has ever been.
Certainly in our lifetime. But no, as is usual with history, it keeps repeating itself. What's going on today still doesn't quite reach the level of partisanship of the 15 years or so on either side of the turn of the 19th century, nor on that of the 1850s and 1860s.

Half of the Rules of Decorum in Congress had to be put in place because of runaway partisanship. Thomas Jefferson practically invented fake news for political purposes in this country when he and others got together and literally made up stuff in the press about John Adams. It's the same ol' same ol'.

So yes, the suit is politically motivated. Unquestionably so.
The problem I have with it is lying hypocrisy where the plaintiffs in this case insist that it is not at all politically motivated, and that instead their motivations are purely altruistic in protecting the people and defending the Constitution.

I don't think it matters much that the emoluments case being made against Trump is politically motivated.
It will to the Supreme Court. Motive is at the heart of all court cases. There have been many cases the Supreme Court has agreed to hear simply so they could smack down the plaintiffs, and a lower court, for playing politics. Granted, the SC will rule on the matter of law, but the written ruling oftentimes scolds the political motivations underlying the case. The 9th Circuit has set themselves up for a good spanking in the travel ban case.

Political motivations aside, the constitutional questions this case raises are legitimate to ask.
I agree. The problem is, with the CREW and the DC/Maryland lawsuits, the questions aren't being asked legitimately. They're being asked more in a three year-old, temper tantrum kind of way. By making it known up front they want to use discovery to go after Trump's tax returns, they're screwing their own pooch.

Trump and his supporters may not like this check on presidential power but our Founding Fathers did.
I don't know anyone, Trump supporters included, who like the notion that the president might be corruptly influenced by a foreign power.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Do you have a link for this. I have not been able to find anything on this. Fake News? o_O
No, it's real news. The outrage is fake, though. A couple or years ago, 2015, the Pacific Fishery Management Council (a government agency, one of eight regional fishery management councils established by the Magnuson Fishery Conservation and Management Act of 1976) decided to recommend certain regulations regarding certain mammals and turtles caught up in fishing nets. Whenever a certain number of certain types of whales and/or certain types of sea turtles are caught in nets, those fisheries (areas where fish are caught) would be shut down for one or two seasons. When Obama heard of the recommendation of the regulation, being a man who has never met a regulation he didn't like, immediately put the regulation into force. The regulation was implemented without any supporting data, just a lot of feels.

The National Marine Fisheries Service (a division within the Commerce Department), who is actually in charge of implementing regulations on fisheries, said it decided the new protection rules were not warranted after looking at the data.

So, Trump rolled back the regulation. Whales and sea turtles are still protected, same as they were two years ago, only now we don't have people out of work for up to two years as a way to ensure those protections.
 

RoadTime

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Do you have a link for this. I have not been able to find anything on this. Fake News? o_O
No, it's real news. The outrage is fake, though. A couple or years ago, 2015, the Pacific Fishery Management Council (a government agency, one of eight regional fishery management councils established by the Magnuson Fishery Conservation and Management Act of 1976) decided to recommend certain regulations regarding certain mammals and turtles caught up in fishing nets. Whenever a certain number of certain types of whales and/or certain types of sea turtles are caught in nets, those fisheries (areas where fish are caught) would be shut down for one or two seasons. When Obama heard of the recommendation of the regulation, being a man who has never met a regulation he didn't like, immediately put the regulation into force. The regulation was implemented without any supporting data, just a lot of feels.

The National Marine Fisheries Service (a division within the Commerce Department), who is actually in charge of implementing regulations on fisheries, said it decided the new protection rules were not warranted after looking at the data.

So, Trump rolled back the regulation. Whales and sea turtles are still protected, same as they were two years ago, only now we don't have people or of work for up to two years as a way to ensure those protections.

Thanks for the info. I shouldn't be surprised that it was much to do about nothing, but I always am :rolleyes:
 
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