The State of the Union and the Justice System

[ATeam]

Tell me if I have this right or correct me if I'm wrong.

The world is divided into people on the left and the right. There are no independent thinkers or actors. There are only the red and blue tribes and an individuals' role is to defend one's tribe and humiliate, defeat, and/or destroy the other. The purpose of politics is not to advance the country for everyone. It's to win the day and thus the benefits for those who agree with you. The losers are to be shut out of the American Dream and left to suffer.

The left controls a corrupt legal system that uses it against the right. Today's court cases are never about the law and the facts and there is no such thing as a fair trial. What determines victory in a court case is the political disposition of the judge and jury. It has nothing to do with the law and the facts, and nothing to do with justice. It's all about politics and nothing else.

Does that accurately reflect your view, muttly, Pilgrim and danthewolf00? If not, what am I getting wrong? What am I missing?

P.S. I'm not raising this to argue views. I'm raising this because I sincerely want to know that I understand your view of our country and justice system. I can argue the views later but first, I want to clearly understand what I'd be arguing against. And who knows, I might actually agree with some of what you share. It's happened before.

 

[danthewolf00]

Tell me if I have this right or correct me if I'm wrong.

The world is divided into people on the left and the right. There are no independent thinkers or actors. There are only the red and blue tribes and an individuals' role is to defend one's tribe and defeat and/or destroy the other. The purpose of politics is not to advance the country for everyone. It's to win the day and thus the benefits for those who agree with you. The losers are to be shut out of the American Dream and left to suffer.

The left controls a corrupt legal system that uses it against the right. Today's court cases are never about the law and the facts and there is no such thing as a fair trial. What determines victory in a court case is the political disposition of the judge and jury. It has nothing to do with the law and the facts, and nothing to do with justice. It's all about politics and nothing else.

Does that accurately reflect your view, muttly, Pilgrim and danthewolf00? If not, what am I getting wrong? What am I missing?

P.S. I'm not raising this to argue views. I'm raising this because I sincerely want to know that I understand your view of our country and justice system. I can argue the views later but first, I want to clearly understand what I'd be arguing against. And who knows, I might actually agree with some of what you share. It's happened before.

I will point at the January 6th court rulings....and the way many people in jail in D.C. are being treated.

 

[ATeam]

I will point at the January 6th court rulings....and the way many people in jail in D.C. are being treated.

That tells me nothing about the views I'm asking you to share. All you ever do is talk about how the other side is wrong.

 

[muttly]

That tells me nothing about the views I'm asking you to share. All you ever do is talk about how the other side is wrong.

I think his example is pertinent because people see how many of the those protesters are being treated and sentenced and looking at other similar protests/ riots with very different outcomes. They’re asking why that is? Could the justice system not be blind?

 

[muttly]

Tell me if I have this right or correct me if I'm wrong.

The world is divided into people on the left and the right. There are no independent thinkers or actors. There are only the red and blue tribes and an individuals' role is to defend one's tribe and humiliate, defeat, and/or destroy the other. The purpose of politics is not to advance the country for everyone. It's to win the day and thus the benefits for those who agree with you. The losers are to be shut out of the American Dream and left to suffer.

The left controls a corrupt legal system that uses it against the right. Today's court cases are never about the law and the facts and there is no such thing as a fair trial. What determines victory in a court case is the political disposition of the judge and jury. It has nothing to do with the law and the facts, and nothing to do with justice. It's all about politics and nothing else.

Does that accurately reflect your view, muttly, Pilgrim and danthewolf00? If not, what am I getting wrong? What am I missing?

P.S. I'm not raising this to argue views. I'm raising this because I sincerely want to know that I understand your view of our country and justice system. I can argue the views later but first, I want to clearly understand what I'd be arguing against. And who knows, I might actually agree with some of what you share. It's happened before.

I’ve seen too many examples from judges, prosecutors and juries that tell me there is a major breakdown in the criminal/ judicial system due to politics and race.

 

[danthewolf00]

That tells me nothing about the views I'm asking you to share. All you ever do is talk about how the other side is wrong.

Just look at Alvin braggs run as district attorney......not his play with trump but with his regular old job as district attorney.

 

[danthewolf00]

Look how Chicago, new York city, Baltimore, las angels, san Francisco are run then look at Republican run district attorneys and even mayors.

 

[ATeam]

I think his example is pertinent because people see how many of the those protesters are being treated and sentenced and looking at other similar protests/ riots with very different outcomes. They’re asking why that is? Could the justice system not be blind?

In this thread, I'm not asking what other people see and believe. In an effort to better understand, I'm asking what YOU see and believe. Above, did I accurately state YOUR views? Do I have that right or wrong?

 

[LDB]

Short version. On a 0-10 scale with 10 being 100% for the Constitution, the nation, the law, justice and the citizens and zero being zero you have any individual with D identifier at 0.1 and any individual with R identifier at 2.3.

 

[Pilgrim]

Tell me if I have this right or correct me if I'm wrong.

The world is divided into people on the left and the right.

I don't know about the world, but IMHO the USA is more politically and culturally divided (fragmented) now than during any other period since the Civil War.

There are no independent thinkers or actors. There are only the red and blue tribes and an individuals' role is to defend one's tribe and humiliate, defeat, and/or destroy the other.

I don't think that's the case, but there's a noisy minority of extremists - especially among Democrats - that make it seem that way. There are still about 40% of Americans that don't vote and aren't politically active.

The purpose of politics is not to advance the country for everyone. It's to win the day and thus the benefits for those who agree with you. The losers are to be shut out of the American Dream and left to suffer.

That's not the purpose of politics, but I would question the extent to which the losers "suffer". Let's not get the agony of defeat confused with human suffering.

ATeam said:
"The left controls a corrupt legal system that uses it against the right. Today's court cases are never about the law and the facts and there is no such thing as a fair trial. What determines victory in a court case is the political disposition of the judge and jury. It has nothing to do with the law and the facts, and nothing to do with justice. It's all about politics and nothing else."

No, we're not there yet. But the case against Trump has been in the news a lot lately, and two NY AGs ran on the political promises to "Get Trump". That's a unique situation that has tainted the view of our judicial system among many Republicans. So have the Jan 6 prosecutions against the protesters in DC, but that's a different kettle of fish.

One final thought: social and mainstream media along with our educational system have created a huge impact on our cultural divides. It's almost impossible to find independent, objective sources of news based strictly on facts.

 

[ATeam]

Short version. On a 0-10 scale with 10 being 100% for the Constitution, the nation, the law, justice and the citizens and zero being zero you have any individual with D identifier at 0.1 and any individual with R identifier at 2.3.

Thank you, LDB. Using your scale, at what point in American history was the highest number achieved? At that time, what were we doing as a country to achieve our top score?

 

[ATeam]

I don't know about the world, but IMHO the USA is more politically and culturally divided (fragmented) now than during any other period since the Civil War.

I agree we're fragmented but I'm not sure it's into two red and blue halves. A significant percentage of the voting public are registered as independents; not affiliated with either party by choice. Labeling anyone as right or left, conservative or liberal, red or blue is problematic. While it is convenient shorthand, it is also broad-brush labeling and those who do it embrace a mindset that limits their options as they navigate through life, I think.

Example. My hair stylist is a vocal Democrat with bumper stickers on her car. Recently, she was at an auto repair shop she loved and touted to all her friends. But a worker there objected to her "left" bumper stickers and criticized her in a vicious way. This good customer is now forever lost to this business and the money and referrals she would have otherwise provided. Limited red/blue thinking cost this business money and referrals that they once had.

Another example is our staunch DeSantis-supporting state representative, who loudly and genuinely proclaims himself to be a conservative man of faith. A lot of people who identify as liberal or as Democrats would oppose him for that reason alone. But this man has adopted several children, one of which is black. He sees and knows first hand how racism plays out in our community. And when he was a local city council member (where I got to know him), he was an active board member in an organization that pushed through and built a new homeless shelter in the area. A lot of people did not want it but this man of compassion did. While he brands himself as a ruby-red conservative, he's refreshingly open to and active in several activities many would consider "liberal." People of the "left" who want more things like homeless shelters and racial empathy would do well to see past the red and blue labels and get to know this man better.

I don't think that's the case, but there's a noisy minority of extremists - especially among Democrats - that make it seem that way. There are still about 40% of Americans that don't vote and aren't politically active.

Agree, though there are massive number of Republican extremists quite loud too; and they get a disproportionate amount of the news coverage.

That's not the purpose of politics, but I would question the extent to which the losers "suffer". Let's not get the agony of defeat confused with human suffering.

Noted

No, we're not there yet. But the case against Trump has been in the news a lot lately, and two NY AGs ran on the political promises to "Get Trump". That's a unique situation that has tainted the view of our judicial system among many Republicans. So have the Jan 6 prosecutions against the protesters in DC, but that's a different kettle of fish.

There are always the attention-getting outliers. Trump's hand-picked Judge Cannon and the Texas judge that banned the abortion pill, and a seemingly corrupt Supreme Court Justice Thomas come to mind. But for the most part, I think the justice system is more good than bad. While there is room for improvement, the system itself is a crucial branch of government that must be trustworthy. As voters, we need to do everything in our power to make it so.

One final thought: social and mainstream media along with our educational system have created a huge impact on our cultural divides. It's almost impossible to find independent, objective sources of news based strictly on facts.

100% agree. People often overlook the profound impact technology has had on how America communicates and develops its opinions. When I was a kid, the news came in the morning paper and the evening TV news from 3 networks. Now there are thousands of sources and many of those are controlled by intentional liars who use their power for nonferrous purposes.

This chaos has permeated every aspect of life, challenging many of our core convictions. Where does a child go to learn about God? For some, it's their parents and clergy. For many, it's the internet. And even those who have parents and clergy that teach them about God, they'll still cross check what they learn with the internet.

Our workplaces have become equally chaotic. Distractions abound. Strategy decisions no longer consider an option or two. There are dozens of credible choices now presented.

This chaos, created by endless choices and interruptions is highly stressful and perpetually so. When people are highly stressed, careful thinking stops and instincts prevail. Political demagogues who know how to play to these instincts have been highly effective at painting the country red and blue; blinding us to so much more that is also there to see.

 

[LDB]

Thank you, LDB. Using your scale, at what point in American history was the highest number achieved? At that time, what were we doing as a country to achieve our top score?

We would have been at least near 10 in the 1780's and have gradually and steadily declined since.

 

[muttly]

LMAO Dems got it good. They wont convict them on anything. Can’t agree on 18 counts and acquits on the other charge.
Dems protect their own.

Jury Finds Andrew Gillum Not Guilty of Lying to FBI

A federal jury found Andrew Gillum not guilty of lying to the FBI in a corruption case that involved the illegal use of campaign funds.

www.breitbart.com

 

[muttly]

The person hit the officer in the face and caused an injury, but no jail time.

OF COURSE: Nonbinary Child of Massachusetts Democrat Who Assaulted a Cop Gets Probation | The Gateway Pundit | by Mike LaChance

Riley Dowell is the child of Democrat Minority Whip, Rep.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

 

[skyraider]

A; nation gone mad.. Transgender whatever sister to Mister, odd labeled restrooms, crossdressers in schools purtting on plays for kindergarteners, or other levels, schoolboards promoting unfit books for your children and grandchildren, woke this woke that, affairs gone wild in the Senate and the House, Hunter dates Chin spies and has a daughter that neither he or his daddy will recognize, and on and on ,,,just like this message............yes I need punctation training,,lol

 

[skyraider]

PS, the migrants are coming in heavy now,,,more folks to cut our grass and soak up our tax money,,,,the battle of the races is going to heat up....

 

[Turtle]

Tell me if I have this right or correct me if I'm wrong.

I think you are mostly correct. The only thing I disagree on is, "There are no independent thinkers or actors." I think we have plenty of independent thinkers and actors, not nearly enough, and the ones we have are mostly drowned out (mostly by partisan politics).

 

[muttly]

LMAO Dems got it good. They wont convict them on anything. Can’t agree on 18 counts and acquits on the other charge.
Dems protect their own.

Jury Finds Andrew Gillum Not Guilty of Lying to FBI

A federal jury found Andrew Gillum not guilty of lying to the FBI in a corruption case that involved the illegal use of campaign funds.

www.breitbart.com

LMAO again. Dems got it good.
18 counts previously charged with ALL DROPPED.

Feds to drop corruption charges on former Democrat rising star Gillum, after acquitted in Fla. court

Gillum was charged with 21 counts including wire fraud and making false statements to the FBI.

t.co

 

[danthewolf00]

LMAO again. Dems got it good.
18 counts previously charged with ALL DROPPED.

Feds to drop corruption charges on former Democrat rising star Gillum, after acquitted in Fla. court

Gillum was charged with 21 counts including wire fraud and making false statements to the FBI.

t.co

Yet they go after Santos......