The State of Hate

[cheri1122]

Turtle says gays have been using the courts and legislation to force their will on people, but I disagree. The courts and legislators don't go along with agendas for no good reason - unless there's mega bucks involved, and no one suggests gays are bribing or buying their way to acceptance.
The courts and legislators are going along because gay people have stopped pretending to be something else. As long as they hid it, people could feel assured that they didn't know any homosexuals, which allows all kinds of misinformation and ignorance to spread and become commonly "known". It's a whole lot harder to demonize [or declare unfit to associate with good people] someone you know, and nearly impossible when it's someone you love, or care about. The general public is being educated to the reality of gay people: they're just like anyone & everyone else. Except in ways which are none of our business. [And they nearly always dress better than the rest of us - there is that.]
Sometimes I wonder how much we've lost by driving people like Alan Turing to suicide, and what, exactly, was gained by it.

 

[muttly]

Like I said, it's bad business for them to be anti gay. And other businesses will gladly take their business and are using it as a marketing tool. It's big business for companies and even celebrities to be pro gay . It's a status thing now for a lot of them. Claiming victimhood is pretty much a thing of the past.

 

[cheri1122]

I said each is appalling whether they are gay or Christian threatened with violence. You seem to be ok with Christians being threatened, and they were threatened .
One example:
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/...stigation-for-threatening-tweet-at-pizza-shop

I am absolutely, unequivocally NOT ok with Christians being threatened. Neither are the coworkers & students who turned that teacher in. Nor is law enforcement, which she is learning now. I hope she is never permitted to teach again, because she should not be held as a role model for students.

The contention that any business owner is "forced" to violate their religious beliefs is patently false, because they chose to operate a business serving the public - no one forced that upon them. If their beliefs don't permit that, they can choose a business model that permits them to pick and choose which customers they will serve, because: freedom!
Yes, you said "each [Christians and gays being threatened] is appalling", but there are degrees of appalling, and so far, there hasn't been a single Christian [in the US] actually attacked, beat up, arrested, fired, evicted, or dragged to death behind some redneck's pickup truck.
Nor has there been a single solitary suicide note left by a 14, 15, 16 year old who just couldn't take any more bullying for being Christian.
Like I said: perspective.

 

[muttly]

I am absolutely, unequivocally NOT ok with Christians being threatened. Neither are the coworkers & students who turned that teacher in. Nor is law enforcement, which she is learning now. I hope she is never permitted to teach again, because she should not be held as a role model for students.

The contention that any business owner is "forced" to violate their religious beliefs is patently false, because they chose to operate a business serving the public - no one forced that upon them. If their beliefs don't permit that, they can choose a business model that permits them to pick and choose which customers they will serve, because: freedom!
Yes, you said "each [Christians and gays being threatened] is appalling", but there are degrees of appalling, and so far, there hasn't been a single Christian [in the US] actually attacked, beat up, arrested, fired, evicted, or dragged to death behind some redneck's pickup truck.
Nor has there been a single solitary suicide note left by a 14, 15, 16 year old who just couldn't take any more bullying for being Christian.
Like I said: perspective.

Most of the gay ridicule and threats occur in young school grade people, where there is a gazillion things they say and do to one one another. Its just the way things are. Not saying it's right.Once they get into the real world, it is a very rare thing. Most businesses don't put up with it. What we are talking about now is just some people that object because of religious reasons, to be involved with a gay wedding. They still serve them otherwise, just like anyone else. For some to conflate this as a war on gays by Christians is ridiculous. To some extent, it is actually an attack on Christians by the secular libs, and their cohorts in the media.

 

[cheri1122]

It is true that there has [nearly] always been a distinct attitude among students that gay, queer, homo, , etc, is the worst insult one can hurl, and that the verbal invective is no longer tolerated in the adult 'business' world - but the underlying premise [gay is doubleplus ungood] is firmly rooted in their minds. It's young [and not so much] adults that make a sport of [literally] bashing gay people, but it is full grown adults who refuse to rent them an apartment, deny them visitation in critical care hospital visits, decline to sell them a house, offer a job, etc.
We are absolutely not talking about "some people that object to being involved in a gay wedding" - though that's the example and narrative preferred by those who practice discrimination, because they believe it's defensible. [I disagree.] We are talking about the belief that gay people don't deserve the same treatment as anyone else. It's a belief that begins in childhood and continues into adulthood, and has historically gone unchallenged.
Challenging that belief, [or even attacking it] is not to be confused with attacking the people who hold it, Christian or otherwise. Like they say "Hate the sin, love the sinner", right?
Except in this case the 'sin' is the insidious evil of declaring some people as less deserving of the same rights as everyone else. Unless the people are currently residing in a state or federal penintentiary, that's simply indefensible.