THE REST OF THE STORY

[Doggie Daddy]

>And if history has taught us anything,it's that EO
>has,does,and will continue to allow truck dealers that
>practice unscrupulous and yes unlawful business practices to
>continue to advertise on this site.
DoggieDaddy,

Actually, your history has shown that you have a tendency to make unfounded accusations about EO, its management and particularly in this case - some or all of our sponsors.

It's also clear that you have an ulterior motive for trying to discredit our staff.

Really Doggie - your venom is getting old.

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com


Thank you lawrence for presenting me this opportunity to explain my statement.Many of the newer members may not know of all the facts that caused two moderators and the site administrator to leave this site back in 2004.

I will not mention the company(sponser) by name,but i believe that the majority of the members here can readily come up with the answer as to who it is.

My story begins at the 2003 EO expo held at the detroiter t/s,this is where i first had contact with this unmentioned company and it's products(expediter trucks).

This is also the same time that i first met the salesman that eventually sold me one of this companies trucks.I also will not mention him by name either,but will say that at one time he was one of the most recognized names in expedite truck sales. And also this person is a sometimes speaker at the EO workshops,again i don't think that anyone who has been in this business for awhile will have a difficult time in figuring this one out.

I will try and keep this story as short as possible,but want people to know the facts.

This brings me to the statements that i made at the begining of this post (originally made in the FYDA thread in the truck talk forum)that EO has does and continues to allow truck dealers that practice unscrupulous and yes unlawful practices to continue to advertise here.

The unnamed company was at the time of my purchase advertising brand new 2004 trucks on it's website and that is what i told the salesman that i wanted, a new 2004 model truck.When i was notified that the truck was built and ready to be picked up,i went to this companies knoxville, tn.branch office to get it.That is where the unnamed salesman met me with all of the paperwork and the truck was on the premesis.

I had no reason to believe that the truck that i had spec'd ealier in the process (a 2004 model)and the truck that was built and delivered were not one and the same.I did not recieve my copy of the title the day that i took delivery of the truck, but was assured by the salesman that it would arrive at my home by overnight delivery.I did however have the signed bill of sale and still had my original spec sheet.(both of these documents describing the vehicle as a 2004 model truck).

Upon arriving at home with the truck and getting the promised copy of the title (actually it was the certificate of origin)this is where the problems began.The certificate of origin descibed my vehicle as a 2003 model,but ALL of my paperwork that was given to me at the time of recieving the vehicle was for a 2004 truck.I also checked the VIN numbers on the internet and came up with the same conclusion that this was in fact a 2003 truck.

I want to add here that the timing for recieving this vehicle was carefully scheduled,as i already was working for a company with my previous vehicle.The other truck was advertised and sold through the EO classifieds and i delivered that truck to it's new owner on the way to picking up the new truck.So there was my dillema, my previous truck was gone and the new truck turned out to be a year older than what i ordered.

After contacting the unnamed company,i was told then that yes this was a 2003 truck.I was also told that this was a "human error",and that there was a mixup in the VIN numbers that caused this this to happen.The only problem with that story is that the EXACT same thing that happened to me happened to another member of this forum and again it was presented as an "honest" mistake.To add insult to injury to this other person,is the fact that he traded in his previous vehicle fully expecting the unnamed company to pay off the remaining balance on that truck with the closing of the deal on the new truck. IT WAS NOT!!!It wasn't until approx 2 months later that this person was notified that he was behind 2 truck payments on his traded in vehicle that he even knew about it not being paid off.

So as you can see this is a very shadey way to run a business,and as i said very possibly illegle.These were not all of the problems that slowly came to light about this deal and this company, but it is what i concider the most flagrant of the practices that they use to decieve people and cheat them out of there money.

I tried to explain what happened to Lawrence in the hopes that he would stand up for the people that make up this site.The site administrator and 2 other mods also tried to get Lawrence to drop this company as advertisers on EO all to no avail,as it seems that Lawrence had been threatened by this company earlier regarding negative posts about their company and was afraid of their legal threats.

So there is my story,which i have all the documents to prove it is true.

And yes i do have ulterior motives for trying to discredit your staff, because to this day your site is the ONLY portal that this scumbag company has to the internet and lots off potential new victims.

In conclusion,this is my 300th post on EO and i really do think it will be my last as I fully expect this post to be gone very quickly along with my membership.

And Lawrence the only good venom is OLD venom.Have a nice day.

x( x( x( x(

 

[Lawrence]

Doggie,

First, I encourage you to name the company that you have an issue with.

Personally, I did what I could do to try and help mediate a resolution with your situation, I spent hours on the telephone and sent several inquiry emails. After several phone calls and emails it became clear to me that it was becoming an issue of “he said- she saidâ€. As we are not an OOIDA type organization I encouraged you and your wife to take this to a new level and get your carrier involved. I think that it the last piece of information you shared with us.

You have always been welcomed to participate on this forum even though you promote the efforts of another web site.

I wish we could have helped with your issue - we tried, does that mean every sale that this truck dealer does is not straight-forward? I don't think so, else your carrier and other wouldn't recommend them as a possible vendor for expedite trucks - and we certainly would have them as a sponsor.

FYI, we have removed a sponsor before based on numerous complaints. In eight years online - we had more complaints about this company in 3 months then did with the company you had issues with in 5 years.


What is clear to me again – is that you have an ulterior motive in trying to discredit EO.

Lawrence,
Expediters Online.com


T.V. - Why do you think they call it programming?

No, YOU suck. - the mean people

"Americans are benevolently ignorant about Canada, while Canadians are malevolently well informed about the United States." - J. Bartlett Brebner

Te audire no possum. Musa sapientum fixa est in aure. - I can't hear you. I have a banana in my ear.

Become who you are. - Nietzsche


Whoever coined the phrase "Quiet as a mouse" has never stepped on one.




-----------------------------------------
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Out About Expediters Online.com!
-----------------------------------------

 

[tec1959]

Doggie hi I am sorry to hear about what happen to you,I understand your side and lawrence's side too.Thanks for all your great post in the past and keep them coming...GOOD LUCK Doggie....

 

[letzrockexpress]

Ya know, in sales they say if you treat your customer right they may tell a few people...but if you treat somebody wrong they'll tell everyone they know!! If a company has that kind of business practice it will get around. I myself am not familiar with the company you are speaking of. If what you are saying is true then that is outright fraud. If as you say your bill of sale says one year and the vehicle is another then why don't you contact the Attorney General in the state where you purchased it? Getting them involved will do much more good than ranting on some online forum. Oh yeah, and thanks for keeping it short...

 

[davekc]

I don't know all of the facts of your situation but there is a few that should be addressed. The first being that you reference a Knoxville company. Your company in question I believe hasn't operated in Knoxville for quite some time, and it shouldn't be confused with Freightliner of Knoxville. Someone new, which you are addressing, may not make that distinction. I personally have been quite satisfied with my dealings with Freightliner of Knoxville.
Secondly, EO is not the manufacturer. Lawrence should be commended for stepping in to help with your problem when it wasn't warranted.

Let me put it this way, the big three and foreign automakers all have disputes with customers, lawsuits, and recalls. I can recall of no instance that NBC,FOX,CBS, ect denied these companies to advertise based a specific instances of dissatisfaction.In extreme circumstances they (EO) have reacted as indicated. If the company corrected the problem, then there is little to gain by trashing the place they advertise. They are not the manufacturer or dealer. If they or someone else have performed illegally as you have indicated, then a civil and or criminal proceeding would remedy the situation.

Again, I don't know all the facts, but that is my penny in the pond just based on your post.







Davekc
owner
21 years
PantherII
EO moderator

 

[greg334]

I am not going to make any suggestions but I will tell you what happened to me.

Back in 1990 I ordered 3 ford E350 cutaways with 12 and 14 foot boxes. I order them from the dealer and was told that instead of a factory order, I would get on the lot trucks, two of which came from a St. Louis dealer.

When I took delivery of the trucks, I checked the VIN against the paper work; all said 1990 models on the paper work and which were all registered as 1990s in my state. The VINs matched the paper work.

Two out of the three ran great, not a dime in repairs outside of normal PM but the third lost its transmission and went it for warrantee work. It sat for a day before the dealer got to it and when they did all hell broke lose.

The dealer called me before the state police did, explaining to me that the vehicle I have on their lot is not a 1990 but a 1989 and they claimed I falsified the registration, hence the call from the state police asking me about the truck and documentation. It wasn’t a stolen truck just human error when the paper work was done – or we all thought.

Well it turns out that this was the practice when a truck never was registered, registering a vehicle from a previous model year as that present year – my truck as registered as a 1990 when it was really an early 1989 model simply because it went from dealer to dealer trying to be sold. The dealer never even had the title; I understand that titles are not a manufacturer thing, just a government thing. After I was done with all of the c**p getting the warrantee straight and the transmission repaired – most important thing to me – I ended up investigating this in depth and found out that this was practiced and may still be for commercial vehicles. All my documentation showed a 1990 E350 cutaway with box, not a 1989 cutaway with box.

 

[hedgehog]

Doggie:

You present your case so simply and assuredly. Your resolve will be found within the legal system (i.e., Attorney General, civil litigation) NOT WITH EO. This venue provides information...not recomendations or arbitration.

Although I am not an attorney, before I retired in 1997, I worked within the legal system closely with both civil and criminal law suits. And, if what you claim can be documented, my only question is why have you not pursued this avenue??

By not seeking legal redress, it appears as though your trying to use EO as a whipping boy.

You selected the dealer. You bought the truck. You are ultimately responsible to make yourself whole again.

Be safe and responsible for your own actions.

 

[Critter Truckin]

I know this might not be the time for politically incorrect humor, but that's what I'm here for afterall.

Life is way, WAY, too short to have a gripe like this... and then again, it's way, WAY too short for me to read it. All I know is that we have gripes about everything, i.e--too much hairspray in the waitresses hair, too much grease on the kingpin, and not enough miracle whip in the jar so the knife makes that friggin rattling sound in said jar.

What I'm getting at is this, read the posts about people needing to lighten up and you will see what I am talking about. There is way, WAY, too much time in the day for people to be getting into beefs about what a site is doing. It's his site, let him decide how to run it... let's all keep our minds on the road and our business and leave Lawerence alone to run his.

Thanks for butchering the words of the great Paul Harvey... Now, the Rest of the Story.

 

[Doggie Daddy]

I never expected EO to come to my rescue on this, I know that it's my problem and my responsibility to seek legal advice which i have done.All i have been trying to get through to Lawrence for a couple of years now is this company does the things i mentioned on an ongoing basis,and their only acess to advertising on the internet is on EO.

Lawrence you stated that you have only removed one sponsor from this site,and that was because of all off the negative postings that it recieved. If you had not made it a practice to remove ALL negative posts about the company i'm talking about (it's aluma junk folks) then there would have been a vast archive of complaints lodged against this company.All i have been trying to do here is to get through to Lawrence that this company does very questionable things and yes they are ruining some peoples lives with their business practices.I know back in the early days of EO that their advertising dollars were important to you,but EO has MANY sponsers now and is not so dependant on their advertising dollars.The time has come to cut the ties with them and stop sending an endless stream of innocent victims to their financial slaughter.

Greg,interesting story about the vehicle that you purchased.I am not 100% sure of this,but i believe that the year that a vehicle is titled comes from the VIN number (this is a patial of my VIN...CADN43JO731....i believe that first 3 indicates model year).
My first truck was a brand new never titled fl 70 that sat on a dealers lot for 2 years but it was not titled a 2002 (the year i bought it ,but it was titled a 2000 wich it was.I don't believe that just because vehicles are not titled and are not sold in a certain model year,that they can be upgraded the following year.

 

[greg334]

I think it is a state issue.

when I bought cars from other states - the ones that did not need a title, I was faced with two problems, one was trying to show the person behind the counter that NH (example) has a no title law for vehicles of a specific age and the other was trying to make sure that the right year got on to the title. I bought a 1964 LandRover in NH (one of many)in 1993 and it was titled as a 1993 LandRover, could not get this corrected. The others were titled with the corrct model year. I think it is a state issue.

 

[rode2rouen]

>
>Greg,interesting story about the vehicle that you
>purchased.I am not 100% sure of this,but i believe that the
>year that a vehicle is titled comes from the VIN number
>(this is a patial of my VIN...CADN43JO731....i believe that
>first 3 indicates model year).
>

ALL vehicles sold in the USofA have a 17 digit Vehicle Identification Number. There is ONE digit, the 10th character of the V.I.N., which denotes the MODEL YEAR of the vehicle, which is not to be confused with the PRODUCTION DATE. ALL vehicles are titled by MODEL YEAR not PRODUCTION DATE.

Example: 2H******5XC08**79
The letter "X" is the MODEL YEAR

X = 1999

The identifier was a LETTER up through the 2000 MODEL YEAR and a NUMBER begining with the 2001 MODEL YEAR.

6 = 2006
5 = 2005
4 = 2004
3 = 2003
2 = 2002
1 = 2001
Y = 2000
X = 1999
W = 1998
A = 1981

NOTE: the letters I or O NEVER appear in a V.I.N. as they are too easily confused with numbers.

Production dates indicate the Month/Year that a unit was built. They are usually found on the V.I.N. tag, usually located on the left door frame.

Edit NOTE: I'm not positive when the 17 digit V.I.N. became the way of doing things. I just looked a couple of my motorcycle titles and my 1979 Yamaha has a 9 digit V.I.N. and my 1981 version of the same model has a 17 digit V.I.N.


Rex

 

[louixo]

Doggie,did you ever pick up a truck mag in a truckstop, and read company profiles in said magazine, or for that matter a story about a driver that some company had spotlighted? Did you ever see anything negative about any of those companies in any of the magazines? The only time I´ve ever read a negative story about a company in any industry publication, is when they were brought up on charges. Yet, every company has detractors, and malcontents for any number of reasons. But, they also have satisfied participants, employees, customers etc., or they wouldn´t be in business.
EO is a forum. Look up the definition of the word "forum". You had a chance to air your views on this forum, and you think EO should react to your bad experience, by pulling advertising, on your say so, and the ALLEGED facts you stated. You named the company, had your beef, and everybody that wanted to, read your opinion. If enough people, add to your complaint on this or any other forum, then it´s logical that the merchant in question will suffer some business loss or be investigated, and suffer major business loss. It´s not up to the forum provider, in this case Lawrence, to go to bat for you in any way. EO has provided you a platform, and didn´t pull your beef off the forum. Even the advertisers can read it, like everyone else. EO did you a service. You also stated that this may be your last post, which sounds to me like a kid that wants to take his ball and go home because he doesn´t like the way the game is being played. So, take your ball, and see ya. Your anger is misdirected, and so are you in this instance. I´ve read and enjoyed some of your posts in the past, but you´re out of line on this one. I´ve seen others leave this forum because they didn´t get their own way in the past. Who are they really hurting by doing so? Grow up Doggie!

 

[Doggie Daddy]

Well louixo all i can say is that even tho' my post was lengthy,i wish you would have read the whole thing before commenting instead of just skimming it.

The reason i said that may be my last post, is that i fully expected the post to be removed along with myself.It has happened as i am sure you are aware of that, being as how you are a charter member.
And i also stated that i didn't expect lawrence to call on my behalf to the company in question.It's my problem and i can and will take the steps to remedy the situation.

All i'm saying here is that more than a couple of EO members have been hurt by this company and the chance that more will be hurt by them is very real. Lawrence stated that only one sponsor has been removed from this site because of many unfavorable posts in a short amount of time.As i stated, if all of the negative posts about the company i am reffering to were allowed to stay and not be deleted it would by now fill many pages in the archives.So where is the equality here,why is one sponser banned and not another?

Sure this is Lawrences site, and he can do what he wants.
I am just pleading my case here and trying to get him to do what is best for the newbies that don't have a clue that there are sharks like this out there,isn't that what it's all about here?To help people? I'll bet you are one of those guys that used cliff notes in high school,am i right?

 

[tec1959]

Hello everyone well i have to say that this post is now getting off base and starting to get very personnal here.I think enought has been said and hope that everyone knows where the post stands,I think it may need to be locked or something were not here to fight with each other...


P.S. I hope everyone else agrees...

 

[letzrockexpress]

I think I hear that knife rattling in the miracle whip jar....

 

[guest]

Maybe I missed it, but what is the name of the dealer? It seems pretty simple--name the dealer and we can make our own decisions about whether to do business with them.

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience. Very frustrating.

 

[louixo]

Doggie. I am quoting you here. You said:
>"I am just pleading my case here and trying to get him to do what is best for the newbies that don't have a clue that there are sharks like this out there,isn't that what it's all about here?To help people?"<

You are still missing the point. What you said above, is YOUR opinion. Nothing more. It does not, and should not, obligate EO, or Lawrence or anyone else, in any way, to make adjustments because you think it´s the thing to do, for whatever reason you deem said adjustment should be made. I repeat, you had your say, everybody read it, and as FRISCOMIKE said... I quote him this time:
>"It seems pretty simple--name the dealer and we can make our own decisions about whether to do business with them."<

Now, give it a rest,and move on. You said it was your problem, and you can and will handle it. So handle it, drop it, and continue to enjoy EO and what it offers. Don´t try to make it your own personal soapbox, to resolve your personal issues. I think we´re all sorry you got burnt.

 

[Critter Truckin]

Amen, brother. Nothing sucks more than trying to make a sandwich and that rattling starts!!!

 

[tallcal101]

The compamy in questions has built 5 trucks for me,is about to build #6.
I have,in the past,bought my chassis from a local dealer here in California(so I know I'm getting what I ordered)and had them drop shipped to Canada.Not everytime,but they have come through on the trucks I bought from them.Salesman Doggie referred to is gone.
I'm very specific how they are to be wired(never mess with the tractor/factory wireing)and about all matters that can and will effect the overall performance and comfort of the drivers.
Yes,there have been problems with each truck,and I have had to be patiant at times,but,in the end,they have stood behind each problem.
A few times it has required sending the truck back to the factory,removing the sleeper,and doing major suspension re-enforcment,air bag replacmenet,new geneators(remember AUX)but in the end, building W/G equipment at the same out the door price is over my budget.
At this point,they know if they don't do a satisfactory job,I will be a major pain in the #####,so they keep me informed through out the building process.
I'm certain that,for me,and I have looked into it,trying to piece together a W/G unit is just to time consuming,to expensive and not worth the time and energy.
I do get frustrated at times,and have hung up on them on more then one occation.I limit the work they do in their shop to A/J problems only.Never freightshaker issues.
I'm retirering the second million miler,even though it has some life in it.I'm going to spray it gold and park it in front of my Hacienda in California.She did over a Million $ in 5.5 years.Not bad.

 

[DocRushing]

I too regret DD's bad experience, and I too share his frustration and disappointment.
I feel truly sorry about his problem.
DD said that he wishes to warn newbies.
Sooo -- here's a bit more advice to anyone else who may get into such a dispute -- with A-junk or with any other party:

Dear newbie:
If you find that another party has committed fraud (or some other wrong) against you, first discuss the problem with the person who did the act in question.
If you do not get satisfaction, then take the matter to a supervisor, manager, or executive -- someone with authority -- in that firm.
If you still do not get a resolution, and if you remain persuaded that your position is right, and if the dollar amount in dispute is worth the time and hassle, then recognize that your problem is a legal problem, so get some legal help to get a legal remedy.
If the behavior of the other party has violated one or more rules of law, the other party has committed a civil wrong against you, or a criminal wrong against society, or both.
If you wish to seek a remedy for the civil wrong against you, then hire an attorney.
If your mouthpiece agrees with your position -- and if you still wish to proceed -- he will likely first contact the other party and do some jawboning with the other party.
That may produce a solution (probably a compromise).
If that does not happen, then your attorney can file a suit.
If your problem involves fraud in the purchase of a truck, the value of the subject matter will undoubtedly be much too large for a small-claim court.
If you wish to seek justice for the potential crime, then contact the state prosecutor (the district attorney general) for the county where the other party does business.
If you have hired an attorney, then discuss that step with him, and let him handle that side too.
Your attorney can mention that possibility to the other party -- in an attempt to encourage the other party to do right.
Again: This is a legal problem, so seek legal help to get a legal solution through legal channels.
Lawrence or others may be willing to help, but do not expect or require him or them to fight your battle for you.
If Lawrence or others do not produce the desired result, do not hassle or criticize any of them, and do not seek to dictate to them about what you think that they should do -- not even toward the other party to your dispute.
If you wish to take any action at all, do so in a timely manner -- within a reasonable time -- now!
Do not continue to grumble to others -- for two years.
The longer you wait to seek a legal remedy, the lower the possibility that you can get a good result.
Continued grumbling -- or continued criticism of others -- does not help to get a solution to the underlying problem.
So, dear newbie, if you find yourself in a business dispute, seek a businesslike solution in a businesslike manner -- and do so in a timely way.
Tell us about the problem and your progress (or lack of it) -- by posting notes in this forum -- but please do not grumble endlessly, and please do not lash out in inappropriate directions.
Sincerely and cordially,
Doc.