The Future of Expediting; Yes or No?

[xiggi]

My understanding is penske had both over and under that weight in the 16ft box. The older ones were under 10 and they changed at some point. The 08 i posted the link to is over. If that is true at some time the sales market on the under 10s will dry up.

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[pandora2112]

That would be a solution...BUT it would also eliminate our advantage over the straight....our competitive edge would be lost....
The only solution I see without government intrusion would be for load boards to have a set of standards....like some quality control....

Spongebox is in a straight truck so of course he wants you to lose your advantage! Lol! We have to deal with HOS, weight stations, etc but while I can see his point I don't agree. Many people choose cv's and sprinters to not have to deal with logs, etc....we have discussed it ourselves but I don't want to give up what little living space we have and I believe Bigfoot would also protest a smaller space, he is not too happy being cooped up so close to his humans 24/7!

)O( ~ Namaste ~ )O(

 

[xmudman]

...and you don't need a CDL to drive one.

Could you haul hazmat in one? I know you can't in a regular van (in placardable amounts, at least), but does the bulkhead allow enough separation between cab & box as to allow for hazmat work? Or do the rules require the box to be completely separate from the cab/sleeper? Just curious; I'll never have the chance to haul hazmat myself...

I dare say, Phil, I don't see you & Diane in one of these. First thing you'd miss is a house-size sleeper

 

[Turtle]

That would be a solution...BUT it would also eliminate our advantage over the straight....our competitive edge would be lost....

We have a competitive edge over vehicles that can haul more freight and get more load opportunities? Who'd a thunk it.

 

[Turtle]

Could you haul hazmat in one? I know you can't in a regular van (in placardable amounts, at least), but does the bulkhead allow enough separation between cab & box as to allow for hazmat work? Or do the rules require the box to be completely separate from the cab/sleeper? Just curious; I'll never have the chance to haul hazmat myself...

You can haul placardable amounts of HAZMAT in a cargo van, or any other type of vehicle including a passenger car, as long the type of HAZMAT is allowed to be hauled in the cab of a truck.

A bulkhead does not separate the cab from the box. Even if it's a perfectly sealed bulkhead, the cab and the cargo area cannot share a common wall if you want to haul certain types of HAZMAT. The only types of HAZMAT you can haul in a vehicle with a common wall or bulkhead are the ones that are allowed to be hauled in the cab of a truck. Poisons and inhalation hazards, for example, cannot be hauled in the cab of a truck, and thus cannot be hauled in a cargo van.

 

[cannedmeat27]

You can haul placardable amounts of HAZMAT in a cargo van, or any other type of vehicle including a passenger car, as long the type of HAZMAT is allowed to be hauled in the cab of a truck.

A bulkhead does not separate the cab from the box. Even if it's a perfectly sealed bulkhead, the cab and the cargo area cannot share a common wall if you want to haul certain types of HAZMAT. The only types of HAZMAT you can haul in a vehicle with a common wall or bulkhead are the ones that are allowed to be hauled in the cab of a truck. Poisons and inhalation hazards, for example, cannot be hauled in the cab of a truck, and thus cannot be hauled in a cargo van.

Exactly I have hauled placarded amounts of hazmat In my van. I don't like to cause then I have to do a logbook.

 

[Turtle]

I hauled a load requiring placards a few weeks ago. That was the first one in several years. I had to run by a truck stop and grab a logbook in order to run it.

 

[beachbum]

We've spoken to several drivers that run these and they are staying busy, I just think they should be running door badges and dot numbers,

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They don't have a name on the side of the door or a DOT number, because they are not commercial vehicles by DOT regulations.

 

[beachbum]

What realy piszes me off when I see those is.
1 No authority
2 No insurance
3 Not runing legal
4 Im willing to bet money there is no sleeper
And worst yet if they are plain jane they can run as if a personal use vehical. 30 hour day is likely.
Its only a matter of time before these morrons cause enough wrecks or dammage freight that FMCSA will regulate the vans as well. We can thank U ship and Shipping wars for stripping the legitimacy of the expedited and spec com industry.

Bob Wolf

If under 10001 GVWR you don't need any authority

How do you know they don't have insurance, I do believe they have some type of insurance just to register the vehicle.

See my first sentence and if under 10001 they cannot be running illegal.

There not required to have a sleeper or any sleeping area under 10001 GVWR, because they are not controlled by the DOT.

Those vehicles on U ship are regulated by the DOT because they are over 10001 pounds because of the trailer.

If accidents were the case for being regulated that would have happened years ago. BTW if they did make vans log there wouldn't to many left in the industry, because most of us don't want to log anymore.

 

[beachbum]

Just about every one of them list their capacity to be at least 4,500 lbs. up to 6,500 lbs. I can see them on the load boards when we are parked near them. I see the size of the box and the "capacity". These lawbreakers are trying to sneak under the radar, often listing "UNDER 10,000 GVW on their door, even thoough they are not. With the load capacity they list, clearly they are not under 10,000 GVW. The DOT should pull every one of these nuts over every time they see them. They are just stealing loads from legal straights and vans.

Some states are pulling them over because they see the dual wheels.

 

[spongebox]

To level the field of all should be regulated, as long as its a van no hos rules, then these small his such has the pensky trucks should be required to have authority and done sort of log, maybe not as strict as us but some, I stand by my comment that in order to haul freight your truck should be required to have a dot# and company name, or company name who you are leased to....

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[spongebox]

Typos

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[mjmsprt40]

OK. Simple numbers here anybody can figure out time.

I drive a heavy 2500. The GVWR as listed on the door is 8600. Right now, my empty weight, with full fuel tank, my stuff and me in the driver's seat, is just shy of 5,800. I've added some insulation and a plywood floor since the last time I weighed, it was lighter then so I know that 5,800 is about right. There is no conceivable way I could put 4,500 in my van and be under 10,000. In fact my calculator shows some three hundred pounds over that. Of course I'm showing serious overweight for this vehicle with that load which is one really good reason I won't do it.

Now, you really expect me to believe that a 3500 (or heavier) with dual wheels and that big box is gonna make in under the wire? Not gonna happen. First, the truck itself is well past 7500 if my eyes don't deceive me. Now slide close to 5,000 payload onto it---- well, I'll tell you one thing for sure, it's not under 10,000.

No powered unit presently on the market can carry 5,000 and be under 10,000 gvwr. You might put it in one of those cargo trailers and that, by itself, would be under 10, but now you have to couple it to a vehicle that can pull it. This ain't gonna be cheap, friend.

 

[mjmsprt40]

Question: You're running a vehicle that is "supposed to be" under 10,000 gross. It's obvious to anybody with eyes that maybe a point is being stretched but you've gotten by with it so far.

Today, however, is your unlucky day. You get pulled over by a state trooper. He figures you're heavy, and directs you to the scales. 12,150 lbs show up. Now, you've been running as an under-10 unit because you didn't want to mess with logging, HOS and maybe because you, yourself aren't quite "legal" to begin with. Now what happens next?

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Question: You're running a vehicle that is "supposed to be" under 10,000 gross. It's obvious to anybody with eyes that maybe a point is being stretched but you've gotten by with it so far.

Today, however, is your unlucky day. You get pulled over by a state trooper. He figures you're heavy, and directs you to the scales. 12,150 lbs show up. Now, you've been running as an under-10 unit because you didn't want to mess with logging, HOS and maybe because you, yourself aren't quite "legal" to begin with. Now what happens next?

well if your van is under 10k on the door sticker...the most you might get is "unsafe vehicle" ticket....and told to remove some weight....plates pulled on the spot.....till you do....

 

[21cExp]

A guy in TN is selling a mess of the used yellow Penskes on eBay: 2008 GMC Savana Cutaway 3500 with box. From what I can see in the info for his (he has more than one posting on THIS page) most have a GVWR of 12,300. There are, of course, others that are similar being sold all over the US.

Penske fleet maintenance is sort of legendary. So, at least these trucks have most likely been expertly maintained before these guys start running them as expediting trucks, heavy or not. Though, Penske is also known for even removing spare tires on leased fleet vehicles so they don't have to put up with end user botch jobs. They would dispatch their own guys to fix flats, etc. So, a lot of these used yellow Penskes may not have spares.

Only reason I know about Penskes maintenance and spares, etc, is I bought my white Savana from a guy who buys a ton of used Penskes that used to be leased to Netflix in TX and OK. Super clean, complete maintenance records, chair side stickers as to last PM, but no spare. Ha!

Will be interesting to see what happens with these yellow box trucks, and the guys running them, over the next year or two. They sure are popping up a lot more places. I have to wonder how Penske feels about it, they are so dang obvious as past Penske vehicles.

 

[skyraider]

After reading all the post, yawnnnnnn, it's time for a nap. I hope not all the 12000 members who are lurking on the sidelines reading this are not losing sleep over the rules of the trade.

 

[mugurpe]

These trucks are illegal. If the manufacturer labels these things at over 10K, then that's their GVW regardless of what stickers you put on the door. You can hypothetically register it at a lower GVW in some states by filling in a different number on the RMV-1 form, but according to the FMCSA regulations, the only number that matters is the the manufacturer's GVW that they put in the inside of the door-frame. So these trucks are definitely over 10. This also means they need a DOT number to cross state lines, logs (unless they're in the 150 air mile) and all that jazz. The fine for crossing state lines in a CMV is $35,000 per border. So drive 2 states away and get caught at the last border on your way back, and you're paying for each border crossing going each way. So massachusetts to Maine is 4 border crossings if you get caught at the mass border. $140,000. Do the cops actually know that the only admissible number is the door tag from the manufacturer? I don't know, but they should. They can also use those fines as a way to suspend all your licensing that you do have and shut your business down in general.

The other issue is that to get your DOT number you need $750,000 of vehicular liability, and frankly any carrier hiring these trucks SHOULD be getting some sort of COI from them I assume to prove they're actually insured, and any number less than the 750K should be a red-flag that the van is running illegally.

Hypothetically they don't need a sleeper if they're staying somewhere that's not in the truck, which means that a cop should ask for hotel receipts or other proof to prove they're not sleeping in a non-sleeper equipped truck.

Is it the future? I doubt it. If it's becoming more frequent in recent years then all it will take is one or two bad accidents and the FMCSA will be all over it. It's just too bad someone will have to get killed first.

 

[mjmsprt40]

I can't understand how anybody could look at the tonka* trucks in the OP photo and not know that they're over 10K. They have to be. You have that big box sitting on that long wheelbase, and--- in order to carry any freight at all, it's over 10K.

*At the courier service I used to drive for, we had a number of these cutaway vans with box bodies. "Tonka truck" is the label that got hung on them there, and that's what I call them here. They're over 10K. Trust me on this.

 

[Grizzly]

My perspectives on this topic .....

Disclosures first:
1 - I'm new to expediting, going on 7 months
2 - I operate an '08 Sprinter using the multi-carrier model
3 - Rates: all 3 of the companies I work with have told me I'm the most demanding driver they have when it comes to rates ... No, I don't think it's a coincidense Not in a bad way .. in a mutually respectful way. If you provide the Very Best .... ask for the Most.
4 - I've run loads for all the major companies: Panther, Load1, Express1, LandStar, The Fed, Bolt, Tri-State ..... ya get the picture.
5 - My parents immigrated to the USA, built it all out of nothing ... American Dream style ..... how is this relevant ..!?!? ...... more on this later ....


These types of vehicles/drivers/companies will always have a segment of the market. You can focus on GVW .. Hazmat requirements .. whatever ..... from my perspective it comes down to one thing ..... $! I realize this is a very cynical view ...
Whenever markets, in this case the Expediting Market, start to operate in an illicite manner to make more money, it needs to maintain a certain % of the business legitimately. If you're signed on with a carrier ... yep, you guessed it .. you're legit. Everything else is a free-for-all. The Carriers are making money either way, with higher margins in some segments of their business. Personally, I don't think it's going to stop. These practices are not going to take over the market ... by definition, it can't .... but they'll always be there.

Russian/Eastern European drivers ..... I have some personal knowledge of this, please hear me out ... and, no that's not my heritage.
I believe you need to look at these drivers through a different lense......
I've read so many threads saying, "these guys can't maintain what they are doing ...." "once they run out of $ operating in this manner, a new flock will come in to replace them....."
Here's a question ..... Why does everyone automatically think these drivers are all out to make money? ..... say what!?!? ..... Many of these drivers are not looking to increase their earnings, per se. They are looking to work hard, stay busy .... but profits are not always a desired result. I believe this mentality is a product of Communism. Many .... many of these guys have families, wives that do not work, homes, and live modestly with the help of government assistance. Food stamps, food banks, SSI .... etc .... and it's ok if you do not have a profit to show at the end of the year .... the US Gov will give you some cash back in April. If they are just drivers, most likely it's for someone from back home and cash is the name of the game. In some cases, not only are they not making contributions ($) to the system, they are also putting demands on it. I'm just stating what I know to be true ......

So how does one compete with those yellow units pictured? Provide the best service, Keep your market share and Keep pushing for higher rates.

My 2 cents ....