The Future of Expediting; Yes or No?

purgoose10

Veteran Expediter
I think it's a sign of the times. Another words when the unemployment is high and money tightens up they get a cheap truck and run just to get through the hard times. Right now nobody has any money and it shows. It also shows that a lot of new carriers around and they will lease anything or anybody.
 

billg27

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I got one parked right next to me. Yellow dual rear cube van. Looks to be a 12-14 foot box. Door does state. "under 10,000".
 

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OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
It is possible they are under 10K....I mean the 3500 sprinter is under 10k again...

and being unregulated they can carry any weight they want to.....if they are willing to roll the dice that they never have an injury accident and they are too heavy and they actually investigate and get caught....
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
unfortunately the very same carriers we run with will use these low lifes to suit their needs....

Trucks like these have been on the road forever but I never realized that some of them might be used to haul expedited freight until FedEx had one meet us at a FedEx terminal to cross-dock some Canada-bound freight. It was a load that FedEx wanted us to go get ourselves and then take to Canada but given our location, there was not time to do it. The dispatch solution was to book that truck in a southern state to pick up the freight and meet us in a northern state. From there we would take the load into Canada where that truck could not or would not go.

The truck had no sleeper and was obviously overweight. The driver spoke with a thick accent (Russian, Hungarian, Romanian - not sure exactly) and his English-language skill was limited. He was a nice enough fellow but had no clue about how to handle freight or process the bill of lading and other paperwork.

I took the lead with him and the fork lift driver when the time came to transfer the load. We used our pallet jack to get the freight off his truck. There was no freight securement equipment of any kind in the truck. Not even a strap.

I said nothing to FedEx dispatch at the time since the situation was resolved when the freight was on our truck and Diane and I had control of the load; but I could not believe that FedEx would knowingly put freight on a truck like that, but that's exactly what happened. (I know the dispatcher knew because she said so, though she may have not known exactly about the truck itself).

That was the eye-opening event that alerted me to the fact that some of these yellow trucks are indeed being used as expediters. Since then, I have seen them in increasing numbers where traditional expedite trucks are commonly seen.

Legal-wise and enforcement-wise, a DOT crackdown might help but I'm not so sure. If the trucks are stopped and ticketed or even put out of service, so what?

The violation is not driving without a CDL or violating HOS, no CDL or log book is required. It would be an equipment violation or driving overweight. CSA is a non-issue for these drivers. It is interesting to note that these trucks have been seen in increasing numbers as CSA has become more widely applied.

One load out of a hundred might be affected by a DOT delay, but it is obvious that these carriers are not trying make a big positive-impression, customer loyalty splash. One DOT dela, or five, or even 10 out of a hundred loads ... so what?

Its a minor violation that would not keep that truck, driver or carrier off the road if the business plan is to run cheap and operate under the radar. They can become as good at scale avoidance as illegal big truck drivers are, even more so with the increased mobility they have. Since there is no CDL, there is no law that requires these drivers to speak English.

These trucks would not be out there if the shippers did not support them. To a shipper, such trucks may seem like a great deal. What do they care if the crated, 4,000 lbs. water pump is not secured? If it gets to the destination on time and can get there dirt cheap, that's great, is it not?

Are these trucks the future of expediting? In some parts of the expedite market, it may be. Van drivers have been bragging for years about how unregulated they are. These yellow trucks are carrying that mentality over the legal line but not in a way that threatens their ability to remain in business and put more such trucks on the road.
 
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scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
From Phil's post
"Legal-wise and enforcement-wise, law changes and a DOT crackdown might help but I'm not so sure. If the trucks are stopped and ticketed or even put out of service, so what? The violation is not driving without a CDL or violating HOS, no CDL or log book is required. It would be an equipment violation or driving overweight."

In Ontario, if that truck is over 9920 lbs. (4500 kg) when overloaded it is put OOS for 72 hrs on the spot, since the driver is then subject to logs and cannot prove he has hours available.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
From Phil's post
"Legal-wise and enforcement-wise, law changes and a DOT crackdown might help but I'm not so sure. If the trucks are stopped and ticketed or even put out of service, so what? The violation is not driving without a CDL or violating HOS, no CDL or log book is required. It would be an equipment violation or driving overweight."

In Ontario, if that truck is over 9920 lbs. (4500 kg) when overloaded it is put OOS for 72 hrs on the spot, since the driver is then subject to logs and cannot prove he has hours available.

That shows how little I know about van operations.

Such an event would be too bad for the driver but that truck would be right back at it once the weight violation was resolved and the out of service order was lifted; assuming that the driver did not jump the OOS order when the scale cops closed shop. Remember, compliance is not a hight priority with these folks. New drivers can be found to keep these trucks on the road.

Again, one, five or even 10 DOT delays in 100 loads ... so what? New drivers and new customers who want to ship under the radar can be found easy enough. New - old used - trucks can be purchased for a song.
 
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ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
In Ontario, if that truck is over 9920 lbs. (4500 kg) when overloaded it is put OOS for 72 hrs on the spot, since the driver is then subject to logs and cannot prove he has hours available.

Have you ever seen or heard of such a truck in Ontario being put out of service for being overweight and having no log? Or is it like in the U.S. where DOT cops are focused mostly on trucks over 10,000 lbs. GVWR?
 

scottm4211

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
Have you ever seen or heard of such a truck in Ontario being put out of service for being overweight and having no log? Or is it like in the U.S. where DOT cops are focused mostly on trucks over 10,000 lbs. GVWR?

Yes. And they are being more vigilant all the time. There's 3 scale houses on the 401 eastbound between Detroit/Windsor and Toronto (roughly 200 miles).
 

aquitted

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Most i have spoke with are Russian polish and things like that. I would find it hard to believe 14 mpg in one especially after the rented years. I drove someone's cube like that for a few weeks that was almost new not a rental fleet one. Mpg ranged from 9 to 11.

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Ziggy you can get 14 m.p.g. with those cubes but the trick is you must be going downhill.
 

FlyingVan

Moderator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
One of them that I talked to got pulled over on back roads, either IN or OH (US 30 maybe) by DOT with portable scales, got a big ticket, bit wasn't put out of service.

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guido4475

Not a Member
Most of these trucks are owned by foreigners out of Chicago area.Not all of them, but quite a few.Like it has been said, lack of doing their job of hauling freight safely.I have seen little, if any, straps in these vans, on the lot and at a shipper. Many I have seen use those 1 inch wide straps from Wal-Mart with plastic hooks on the ends. Many I have had the enjoyment of meeting at a pickup/delivery spoke very little english, if any at all. Shame on the companies for hiring them in this condition, but who knows, maybe some of these companies are owned by their countrymen as well?? I have seen, and been told by one of those drivers, who just got to Laredo from Chicago, he had over 5,000# in the back of the truck for a load.It was obvious by the way the whole van was squatting severely.These vans have a heavy empty weight, and can barely legally carry 1,300#.I know because my friend had one, and sold it a year later.They actually are rated at 10k GVW on the door jamb, most of them.Gas mileage is very poor. MPG around 10 and under is very realistic.The problem is, these guys just don't care.They haul freight way cheaper than we do, and ever will, in my opinion, and don't care about anyone's safety as well as their own.Their standards are way lower than our's are.They are exactly the reason why the van industry will eventually be under the DOT scope.
 

FlyingVan

Moderator
Staff member
Owner/Operator
Guido,
I agree with you 100%.

But I don't fault these poor drivers. Most of them are honest, but ignorant folks that are trying to make a living. I blame the companies that will knowingly overload them. Sad, but the mighty buck speaks.

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moose

Veteran Expediter
. With the load capacity they list, clearly they are not under 10,000 GVW. The DOT should pull every one of these nuts over every time they see them. They are just stealing loads from legal straights and vans.
unless you are going to make a safety argument, then it is not the DOT job to regulate commerce.
 

golfournut

Veteran Expediter
Most of these trucks are owned by foreigners out of Chicago area.Not all of them, but quite a few.Like it has been said, lack of doing their job of hauling freight safely.I have seen little, if any, straps in these vans, on the lot and at a shipper. Many I have seen use those 1 inch wide straps from Wal-Mart with plastic hooks on the ends. Many I have had the enjoyment of meeting at a pickup/delivery spoke very little english, if any at all. Shame on the companies for hiring them in this condition, but who knows, maybe some of these companies are owned by their countrymen as well?? I have seen, and been told by one of those drivers, who just got to Laredo from Chicago, he had over 5,000# in the back of the truck for a load.It was obvious by the way the whole van was squatting severely.These vans have a heavy empty weight, and can barely legally carry 1,300#.I know because my friend had one, and sold it a year later.They actually are rated at 10k GVW on the door jamb, most of them.Gas mileage is very poor. MPG around 10 and under is very realistic.The problem is, these guys just don't care.They haul freight way cheaper than we do, and ever will, in my opinion, and don't care about anyone's safety as well as their own.Their standards are way lower than our's are.They are exactly the reason why the van industry will eventually be under the DOT scope.

So why is it not ok for these guys to run heavy, but ok for Load 1 folks to run heavy? Heavy is heavy no matter who you run for!

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mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I've driven one of these things when I was doing local courier work. The company rented it while my van was in the shop, then deducted the rental from my settlement. Yeah, that stank to high heaven.

The one I drove was rated under 10K, and the payload rating was an abomination. To have such a large box and have such a small payload--- my 1500 hauled more weight. And, yes, the fuel mileage was an abomination too.

The company had an excellent chance to show me how I would make a boatload of money with such a vehicle, and they blew that too. Nope, not gonna happen as anything I would buy.
 

guido4475

Not a Member
So why is it not ok for these guys to run heavy, but ok for Load 1 folks to run heavy? Heavy is heavy no matter who you run for!

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Who said anything about Load One vans running heavy to begin with? And, besides, there are alot of Sprinters, Spartans, etc, that can be overloaded with a small load on, judging by the amount of things and accessories we do carry. Alot of us just do not over-do it, and carry 4-6k. Do not try to turn this thread into you're own personal crusade against Load One.
 

Dat1stChoice

Active Expediter
I see alot of these running hot shot stuff around Denver too, its really sad. They're killing my hours, and taking my loads. Honestly though, its not the poor saps driving them that should be ashamed, its the jerks at the forwarders that should be.....they KNOW they're shipping freight at great risk to the items being carried, and the public at large, yet they still call them in.

Saw one drop 2 or 3 skids of something plastic all over the highway here in town, slid right through the back door and into traffic. Luckily the roads were deserted, and no one was hurt. There were 2 guys out there on the highway with flashlights in reflective vests trying to get all the debris.

Is it the future....I hope not, I don't want to have to log in my van!
 

Deville

Not a Member
The two yellow trucks pictured below are expediters. Is this the future of expediting? Yes or no? Why or why not?

old_penske.jpg



Those trucks aren't dock height so it limits loads.

After reading this thread I an see that many people aren't happy about this.

The issue with these trucks is that they areally aren't set up for freight. These trucks are for moving not freight hauling.

The frame could support the weight with the duel wheels with a GVR of 14000 pounds, maybe more if the box & suspension was right.

I've had 4500 pounds on my van & it barely dropped from the weight. Why? because it's an e350 & it's set up for heavy duty work.

Motor & transmisson wise these things can take what ever you throw at them & will give you 9-12 mpg. I get 12.5 in my van.

As far as the drivers go, it's hard for me to get mad at someone for trying to make a living in a terrible economy when it's easier for someone to be a criminal & blame society for not execpting them because their english isn't good & because no one would hire them.

In my years at FDCC I have met some guys the past 3-4 years that would have never made the cut 10 years ago. I don't judge harshly but I have raised an eyebrow in disbelief.
 
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mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I will say this about the courier company I worked for: Those two yellow trucks never would have gotten under the 10,000 designation. They're clearly over, any attempt to load them with what they're capable of carrying and trying to run them as "under ten" units would get the vehicles pulled over by the locals (Elk Grove Village police are really watching in the industrial district, and they've been on courier trucks like white on rice). The unit would be pulled over to the scales, and if it's overweight--- somebody's gonna pay and that truck has to be lightened. I was in the office on other business when one of these incidents happened, and Steve asked how the driver could put that much weight on when he knew he couldn't carry it. Also that from then on he was going to be watching all single-axle vehicles because of the loads some were trying to carry.
 

golfournut

Veteran Expediter
Who said anything about Load One vans running heavy to begin with? And, besides, there are alot of Sprinters, Spartans, etc, that can be overloaded with a small load on, judging by the amount of things and accessories we do carry. Alot of us just do not over-do it, and carry 4-6k. Do not try to turn this thread into you're own personal crusade against Load One.

I have no beef with Load 1. In fact I think it's a good company.

My beef is with YOUR double standard. There are several posts in the L1 forum about certain drivers running heavy. Some of you do over do it.

So where do you draw the line of being over weight? 1 pound, 100 pounds or 1000 pounds. So it's ok for you to "not over do it" and the other guy can't. It's legal for you to do it but not the other guy.

Don't throw rocks, you'll break a window.

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