The Duggars

Turtle · Jun 19, 2015

Yeah, it would be wrong. Raising the price for certain people because they are a member of a group is discrimination.

The problems these Christians are having with baking wedding cakes for gay weddings is they are refusing to do so based on religious beliefs. There is nothing religious about baking a wedding cake. There is nothing about wedding cakes in religious dogma. Plus, the Supreme Court has consistently ruled against religious beliefs as an excuse to discriminate.

If someone wants a wedding cake, and your business is wedding cakes, then you have to make the cake for them. If they want the names of the people getting married in the cake, if you do that for anyone you have to do it for everyone.

What you don't have to do, however, is decorate the cake with a political message that you do not agree with.

A gay baker is required to make a cake in the shape of a bible if they make book-shaped cakes. They are not required to put a message they don't agree with on the cake.

If a baker can be compelled to put a message on a cake that he doesn't agree with, then by the same token he can be prevented from putting something on there. That strikes at the very heart of free speech.

LDB · Jun 19, 2015

Good plan. Until the mafia gets the liberals to pass a law banning a fee for special decoration.

Windsor · Jun 19, 2015

LDB said:
Good plan. Until the mafia gets the liberals to pass a law banning a fee for special decoration.

Or the conservatives, AKA job creators could spend 30 million in tax dollars trying to prove that a liberal received oral pleasure from the cake.

Turtle · Jun 19, 2015

I can prove that for the price of a Twinkle.

asjssl · Jun 19, 2015

Marriage is a legal and social contract. Religion has nothing to do with it - you can have all the religious rituals you want but if you don't have a marriage license, you are not legally married. This is just another attempt by bible-humpers to turn the US into a Konservative Khristian Kountry.

Michigan Bill Would Require All Marriages To Be Sanctioned By Religion
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2015/06...e-all-marriages-to-be-sanctioned-by-religion/

xiggi · Jun 19, 2015

Windsor said:
Or the conservatives, AKA job creators could spend 30 million in tax dollars trying to prove that a liberal received oral pleasure from the cake.

Yea but the liberal would say it is their right to marry the cake.

SWTexas1 · Jun 19, 2015

I try to stay out this type of discussion, but after seeing the sheer amount of time and effort put into this by many here, I have to ask.?

Why are so many just looking for a way to be offended?

Really now if you want to marry someone, why does it matter who makes your cake? Or takes the pictures? If Fred or Mary doesn't want too, is it really the best idea to FORCE them to. As many in here have worked in the service industry before, we all know the level of service that is giving when someone doesn't want to be there, or work with someone.

I could see this discussion if there was only one cake maker, or photographer in the U.S. but come on folks let's use a little common sense. Give your money to the business that wants it, and go enjoy your event, and live happy ever after

Just my two cents

Turtle · Jun 19, 2015

asjssl said:
... you can have all the religious rituals you want but if you don't have a marriage license, you are not legally married.

You may want to do some research about something called "common law marriage." You'll be shocked.

xmudman · Jun 19, 2015

SWTexas1 said:
we all know the level of service that is giving when someone doesn't want to be there

Exactly. It's the reason you don't buy a burger from someone who hates working at McDonald's

Windsor · Jun 19, 2015

SWTexas1 said:
I try to stay out this type of discussion, but after seeing the sheer amount of time and effort put into this by many here, I have to ask.?

Why are so many just looking for a way to be offended?

Really now if you want to marry someone, why does it matter who makes your cake? Or takes the pictures? If Fred or Mary doesn't want too, is it really the best idea to FORCE them to. As many in here have worked in the service industry before, we all know the level of service that is giving when someone doesn't want to be there, or work with someone.

I could see this discussion if there was only one cake maker, or photographer in the U.S. but come on folks let's use a little common sense. Give your money to the business that wants it, and go enjoy your event, and live happy ever after

Just my two cents

That was more like 4 cents, but who's counting!

Windsor · Jun 19, 2015

xiggi said:
Yea but the liberal would say it is their right to marry the cake.

Then the conservatives would say to the liberal....it's our right to decide what you're rights are!

xiggi · Jun 20, 2015

Like with guns, what you can say about a certain group of people, what sources of fuel we use, who you have to make cakes for in your own business?

Windsor · Jun 21, 2015

xmudman said:
Exactly. It's the reason you don't buy a burger from someone who hates working at McDonald's

If that's the case the you might as well never buy a burger from any McDonald's

cheri1122 · Jun 21, 2015

Turtle said:
If a baker can be compelled to put a message on a cake that he doesn't agree with, then by the same token he can be prevented from putting something on there. That strikes at the very heart of free speech.

As do anti obscenity laws, which prevent a cake decorator from putting certain messages on a cake. The difference is that religious beliefs are not the same as "community standards". If one argues that they are, or should be, we're back to the question of which religion? Whose beliefs? What constitutes proof of "sincerely held"?
That's why religion and government must remain separate.

cheri1122 · Jun 21, 2015

xmudman said:
Exactly. It's the reason you don't buy a burger from someone who hates working at McDonald's

How would you know? And what about buying [anything] from someone who is just having a very bad day, and decides to take it out on you? People need to do the job without injecting their personal feelings into it, or find another job, IMO.

Turtle · Jun 22, 2015

cheri1122 said:
As do anti obscenity laws, which prevent a cake decorator from putting certain messages on a cake.

Link, please. And please don't link to a hate speech law, as hate speech and obscenity laws are not the same. I've never heard of an obscenity law being applied to a cake, so I'm genuinely interested in learning about one.

The difference is that religious beliefs are not the same as "community standards".

Tell it to the Amish.

If one argues that they are, or should be, we're back to the question of which religion? Whose beliefs? What constitutes proof of "sincerely held"?
That's why religion and government must remain separate.

Communities have the right to set their own standards. They are local norms bounding acceptable conduct. The Supreme Court has made it crystal clear that communities can set their own standards. By the same token, the Supreme Court has also made it clear that those standards cannot be used to discriminate (against minorities, interracial marriage, etc.). There are plenty of religious communities in this country that set their own standards. "Which religion" is obviously the predominant religion in that community. Community Standards don't require a sincerely held belief, they are simply the standards of acceptable conduct within the community. Ever heard the phrase, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."? That's that that means.

greasytshirt · Aug 19, 2015

Little Josh was content on keeping his willie wet.

While I'm a strong advocate for internet privacy, I couldn't help but react with glee when this story broke.

http://gawker.com/family-values-activist-josh-duggar-had-a-paid-ashley-ma-1725132091

Turtle · Aug 19, 2015

It's a sad day for Internet privacy, but a glorious day for the inaugural August Christmas holiday.

Granted, that site doesn't verify e-mails, so many of them can be fake (and probably are), but many or maybe most probably aren't. Still, in all, some 15,000 people registered their accounts using emails linked to military and government servers, including the NSA and Department of Justice. United Nations and Vatican workers popped up, too, as well as email addresses belonging to Yale and Harvard University alums. Lots and lots from email domains of large banks.

Wells Fargo has so many e-mails in there they felt compelled to release a statement. :JC-hysterical:

You will soon be reading and hearing two primary responses from famous and not-so famous people when their e-mail addresses are found amongst the data: "Someone used my email address without my permission," and "I signed up because I was doing research on [the site, infidelity, etc.]."

And nobody will believe them.

eek_line"

skyraider · Aug 20, 2015

SWTexas1 said:
I try to stay out this type of discussion, but after seeing the sheer amount of time and effort put into this by many here, I have to ask.?

Why are so many just looking for a way to be offended?

Really now if you want to marry someone, why does it matter who makes your cake? Or takes the pictures? If Fred or Mary doesn't want too, is it really the best idea to FORCE them to. As many in here have worked in the service industry before, we all know the level of service that is giving when someone doesn't want to be there, or work with someone.

I could see this discussion if there was only one cake maker, or photographer in the U.S. but come on folks let's use a little common sense. Give your money to the business that wants it, and go enjoy your event, and live happy ever after

Just my two cents

It is usually all about the money and if another party sees a way to get some bucks through suing,,the lawyers are all over it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it is always about money, hidden in with the discrimination stuff and hate stuff and on it goes in a world gone mad...