Windsor
Veteran Expediter
Nothing, I didn't know that I was. I was simply making an observation that maybe he was gay and perhaps Christians that say it's an abomination are getting it wrong, that's all.
The Duggars
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paullud
Veteran Expediter
It's an ignorant observation since there are several stories of him dealing with women and it's speculated that he was actually married.
Decorating a cake is not an artistic expression, when the decoration is dictated by the purchaser. Nor is it compelled speech, because the speech in question is not the baker's, but the customer's. The baker is no different than a translator - he just uses a different medium to translate the message of another person.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Not quite correct IMO.
The execution of the decoration (the manner in which it is done) - whether it contains a message or not - is an artistic expression.
However, if the purchaser is supplying a message as part of the decoration, and all the baker is doing is rendering that message into a physical form, the baker is simply providing a service (of a rendered message - which they may or may not agree with)
To assert that the purchaser's speech is actually the baker's however is a fool's errand ... as the opinion being expressed clearly is the purchaser's, not the baker's ...
Correct.
I wouldn't say the baker is no different than a translator.
I would say that they are quite similar however, with some slight differences.
Windsor
Veteran Expediter
Speculated? Seriously? Speculated by who? The Jesus investigators? Was that hot tip found in the bible? If it was it just lost all credibility. That's the book that says the earth is 6000 yrs old and some dude lived inside of a whale. The newest version says we rode on dinosaurs. But dinosaurs lived over 65 million yrs ago.....no wait, the earth is only 6000 yrs old. Ok something isn't adding up.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Sexuality of Jesus
Was Jesus gay? Probably | Paul Oestreicher | Comment is free | The Guardian
If, in fact, he were gay, it would be rather ironic ... considering the nature of some who claim to be his followers ...
Was Jesus gay? Probably | Paul Oestreicher | Comment is free | The Guardian
If, in fact, he were gay, it would be rather ironic ... considering the nature of some who claim to be his followers ...
Be it a cake, a painting, a piece of music, a sculpture, whether it is dictated by the purchaser (i.e., a commissioned work) is irrelevant. The artistic act itself is an expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. If all or part of the work is dictated or even directed by someone else, it is still the artist who expresses their creative skill and imagination.
Then the customer can express that speech right onto the cake themselves, they do not need the baker. The baker can give them the icing and a piping bag with the appropriate decorating tip and he can write it himself (which is exactly what the gay baker in Colorado offered when the customer wanted an anti-gay cake). It won't have the writing expertise of a skilled baker, but it won't be a message released in the writing of the baker via the bakery, either. If the customer wants a particular message on a cake, so that the message can be conveyed to others, and the customer wants the baker to place that message on the cake, the baker then becomes the courier of the message through his work. You cannot compel someone to be a courier of an ideological message they do not agree with. The Supreme Court made that very clear in the Wooley v Maynard case (which had to do with the forced display of a state motto on e license plate that was offensive to moral convictions of the Maynards, but the same courier standard apply).
A translator's job is specifically translate speech from one language to another, and to not voice his own opinion in doing so. Therefore, no one can reasonably conclude or make the mistake that anything a translator says in performing his function is as an endorser or a sponsor of anything he translates. Everything a translator says is explicitly attributed to the person speaking the language being translated. Everything an artist creates is explicitly attributed to the artist who created it, whether it was a commissioned work or not.
Fixed it for ya.....Your up early this morning.
You hate God and religion, and that's your privilege. Easy and simple yes or no question. Do you also hate unicorns?
Really you Have To say the word? Did someone have a gun pointed at you? Some dont believe some do, big deal no reason for either side to hate.
It's the point it is there...I thought our government was NOT to endorse any religion .some believe in gay marriage. .no reason to hate
Windsor
Veteran Expediter
I agree on the fish sandwich. ..but lets be honest...you don't see a problem because it's in your favor ..if it was to be taken out as it was originally wrote by a ordained minister. .there would be a problem..