The death of common sense..

[cheri1122]

Then they should have a unisex dressing room, as some stores have unisex bathrooms.. so there is an option.

Works for me, but so far, they don't have them in many places.

If Im in a mens room, I have a right to expect only men. If my wife, daughter, or granddaughters are in a ladies room, they have a right to expect only women.

Comparing somebody pretending to be a woman, to a long haired guy is quite a stretch.

Not really, because the comparison is to people's reactions to something other than what they're comfortable with. Almost invariably, the reaction is negative, [in this case, reinforced by religious beliefs].
How often do folks judge YOU by the long hair & tattoos, and form an opinion as to who & what you are that is completely unwarranted?
It's the whole 'pretending' thing that bothers me - how do you know? More to the point, how did the Macy's clerk know 'he' was a male?
The answer is, she didn't. She assumed 'he' was, [and that he was homosexual, too, like that has anything to do with it, or is any of her business to begin with] and stated that it's against her religious beliefs to allow 'him' to enter the dressing room, but her supervisor didn't agree with her at all.

Im not pretending to be something else. People get confused about gender identity...

Nature herself gets 'confused' sometimes, too, and gives someone the wrong organs to harmonize with their hormones [which rule the brain, we now know] or even both male & female organs. Confusion is normal, sometimes - it's the pretense that we 'know' things we don't that causes trouble for everyone.

I get that...still, just because a man feels like a woman, doesnt make him a woman. It makes him a man denying what he is.

Who are we to determine 'what he is'? When the most learned scientists & docs can't tell in many cases, how can a Macy's clerk be so sure? And how can anyone?
The subject is proof of how much we still don't know about so many things, including ourselves.

Thats his right. But its her right not to be forced to accept its right for him to be in a ladies room..

Of course it is her right, but the time to declare it is prior to accepting the job.


The guy in question admitted he was a guy.

Unless you read something other than the article posted [I didn't], he did not admit any such thing - he said he was a woman, the clerk said he wasn't.

Therrfore, there was no doubt, and he should have to use the mens room.






Dale [The guy who could be mistaken for a Hell's Angel, if you judge books by their covers.]

 

[clcooper]

No...it's what his or her DNA says that makes him or her what they are.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

what does your DNA say . where can i find out what my DNA is where do they keep that on file at . when do they take your DNA

 

[LisaLouHoo]

what does your DNA say . where can i find out what my DNA is where do they keep that on file at . when do they take your DNA

I had DNA study done in 2008 to check for an inherited blood clotting disorder. Turns out a full panel was performed. 14 tubes (10ml each) of blood. My primary care physician has the results on file. He said good news, no Leiden. Bad news, no matter if I weighed 60 lbs. the diabetes isn't going away. He ended the discussion with, "Says here you're female, too".

You never know what test results your doctor may have on file.

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[clcooper]

I had DNA study done in 2008 to check for an inherited blood clotting disorder. Turns out a full panel was performed. 14 tubes (10ml each) of blood. My primary care physician has the results on file. He said good news, no Leiden. Bad news, no matter if I weighed 60 lbs. the diabetes isn't going away. He ended the discussion with, "Says here you're female, too".

You never know what test results your doctor may have on file.

Sent from my ADR6300 using EO Forums

so do you carry those dna results around with you .

 

[LisaLouHoo]

so do you carry those dna results around with you .

Why would I? They're accessible through the Ascension Health database. Of course if I felt the need to, I could get copies and keep them in the glovebox. I could even have my tattooist transfer them onto my back (say, that's an idea!)...but for now, I will just leave them where they are. Those who need to have access to them can. I'm not planning any gender transformation surgery or even borrowing Jeff's clothes for a trip to the mall.

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[AMonger]

what does your DNA say . where can i find out what my DNA is where do they keep that on file at . when do they take your DNA

Well, of course, there can't be a DNA test required for access to changing rooms in a store, any more than there can't, unfortunately, be a hand washing station at a buffet. I guess the only answer is to make each changing room more seperate and secure, with full, floor-to-ceiling walls, and an attendant in the middle. Just another accomodation perverts have forced on decent society.

Now what do you want to do about the showers at the gym, let people shower wherever they please? I want to shower wherever Jennifer Aniston is showering. If I say I'm a woman, that's OK, isn't it?

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[cheri1122]

Well, of course, there can't be a DNA test required for access to changing rooms in a store, any more than there can't, unfortunately, be a hand washing station at a buffet. I guess the only answer is to

Stand on the bench so they can't see your feet.
Or don't use changing rooms, if it's that bothersome for you. [Just like I don't eat at truckstop buffets, cause what I've seen grosses me out]

make each changing room more seperate and secure, with full, floor-to-ceiling walls, and an attendant in the middle. Just another accomodation perverts have forced on decent society.

The irony? The 'perverts' [as you so charmingly call them] are [sexually] attracted to men, not women, [unless they happen to be lesbians too] making the whole 'OMG,' point pretty funny when you think about it.
Wait - they don't stop lesbians from using the ladies room, how bizarre is that?!

Now what do you want to do about the showers at the gym, let people shower wherever they please? I want to shower wherever Jennifer Aniston is showering. If I say I'm a woman, that's OK, isn't it?

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[greg334]

I think we need to grow up a bit. It seems from not showing nipples on tv to being prudish about peeing, we are too much of a cry baby society. They have had unisex facilities in europe for a long time, and I don't see them suffering too much by the tv programming that we are copying.

 

[clcooper]

Well, of course, there can't be a DNA test required for access to changing rooms in a store, any more than there can't, unfortunately, be a hand washing station at a buffet. I guess the only answer is to make each changing room more seperate and secure, with full, floor-to-ceiling walls, and an attendant in the middle. Just another accomodation perverts have forced on decent society.

Now what do you want to do about the showers at the gym, let people shower wherever they please? I want to shower wherever Jennifer Aniston is showering. If I say I'm a woman, that's OK, isn't it?

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

if his or hers offical ID says what they are that is what they are . and that is the room they go to .

some people need to learn to read

 

[AMonger]

some people need to learn to read

CL...you said their ID determines their sex. It doesn't. That's the point. Perverts have used the force of law to get IDs to say what they want them to say, not the truth. There is no such thing as a sex change. A man who "becomes" a woman is merely a man with mutilated genitals. In better times, perverts kept their perversions to themselves. Now we have to make secure changing rooms so women don't have gawkers, men pretending to be men pretending to be women so they can gawk at nekkid women. You want to gawk at nekkid women, that's what the internet is for.

--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[Turtle]

As Cheri has pointed out, dressing rooms are not even remotely the same as restrooms, or showers, where there's a communal space to get nekkid and gawk. These are little cubicles where you are in there by yourself. There is nothing inherently "male" or "female" about these wooden and plastic cubicles. In most cases, the only thing that differentiates the men's from the women's dressing room is geography, where the men's dressing room is near the men's clothing department, and the women's dressing room is near the women's clothing department. Aside from that, they are the same.

As for gawking, a man dressed as a women may gawk, but the only thing he's gawking at is the women's fashion sense, especially if he's homosexual (you know, not sexually attracted to women. Duh).

As for the clerk trying to impose her religious beliefs onto the crossdresser, I wonder if she was wearing pants?

She should also read 1 Timothy 2:11-12

 

[LisaLouHoo]

I don't know if they are the same across the country, but the Kohl's I shop has unisex fitting rooms. Doesn't bother me. As pointed out, private cubicles with locking doors.

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[Dreamer]

She should also read 1 Timothy 2:11-12

Yeah,....that one will get you hurt!


Dale

 

[cheri1122]

CL...you said their ID determines their sex. It doesn't. That's the point. Perverts have used the force of law to get IDs to say what they want them to say, not the truth. There is no such thing as a sex change. A man who "becomes" a woman is merely a man with mutilated genitals. In better times, perverts kept their perversions to themselves. Now we have to make secure changing rooms so women don't have gawkers, men pretending to be men pretending to be women so they can gawk at nekkid women. You want to gawk at nekkid women, that's what the internet is for.

Food for thought:

When I lived in New Orleans, I saw a lot of female impersonators who could fool their own mothers.
If I were in their shoes [but not for long - those stilettos are murder!] the people I'd take very great pleasure in fooling are those who would treat me with scorn, when I've done nothing to harm them. I might even go a long way out of my way to fool them, in fact, just to make up for the contempt they would heap upon me if they only knew. It wouldn't matter if they never knew or even suspected the truth - I'd know, and that would be sweet revenge, indeed.
But that's just me - maybe those who could actually pull it off are much more tolerant & forgiving than I'd be.


--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[AMonger]

As Cheri has pointed out, dressing rooms are not even remotely the same as restrooms, or showers, where there's a communal space to get nekkid and gawk. These are little cubicles where you are in there by yourself. There is nothing inherently "male" or "female" about these wooden and plastic cubicles. In most cases, the only thing that differentiates the men's from the women's dressing room is geography, where the men's dressing room is near the men's clothing department, and the women's dressing room is near the women's clothing department. Aside from that, they are the same.

As for gawking, a man dressed as a women may gawk, but the only thing he's gawking at is the women's fashion sense, especially if he's homosexual (you know, not sexually attracted to women.

There are some that are more secure than others, and some less so. Now, thanks to the perverts, every store will have to change and have ceinings on them, floor-to-ceiling doors, etc.

And this is just the one issue. It won't be long before a pervert of one sex says it belongs in the other locker room. And Cheri and CL will be there to applaud.
--

You know the problem with bad cops? They make the other 5% look bad.

 

[Turtle]

There are some that are more secure than others, and some less so. Now, thanks to the perverts, every store will have to change and have ceinings on them, floor-to-ceiling doors, etc.

Perverts have nothing to do with it. Floor-to-ceiling doors and ceilings won't help, either. Many department stores have the doors designed specifically so you can't see out, but they can see in. Macy's is one of them, and they do not apologize for doing so.

How Private Is That Dressing Room? « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

Another story with investigative video here:
Macy's Admits It's Totally Peeping On You In The Fitting Room - The Consumerist

 

[layoutshooter]

It can be a tough call for a retail store. I learned that when I was at Cabela's and Gander.

The fitting rooms are one of the "hot spots" for shoplifting, sex and other "private functions".

 

[greg334]

Solution - eliminate fitting rooms altogether.

No more shop lifting issues, no more cross dressing issues, no more first amendment violations.

 

[layoutshooter]

Solution - eliminate fitting rooms altogether.

No more shop lifting issues, no more cross dressing issues, no more first amendment violations.

One of them "Catch 22" thingies there Greg. There is not such thing as sizes out there. A "L" from one company is not a "L" from another. There would be a major loss of sales, not to mention an large increase of "green house gasses".

There is not really a good answer.

 

[greg334]

I understand Layout but don't care, not my problem.

I mean I don't sit there trying cloths on to see which one fits and which one doesn't.

The fitting rooms that are open to the public (unlike those at an actual dress makers/tailors) are a courtesy for those customers but when the issue becomes more than what is being tried on, then the consideration towards the customer needs to be properly addressed - in this case the consideration would be to eliminate the fitting room altogether to eliminate any offensive action by a customer or employee.