Tea Party at a crossroads

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Palin is nothing more than a typical establishment Republican who has no problem shoving her social agenda down our throats. Plus her fiscal record in Alaska(heavily taxing the oil companies) puts her to the left of Obama, fiscally-speaking.

Obama is nothing more than a typical establishment Democrat who has no problem shoving his economic agenda down our throats. Plus record of community activism puts him to the left of Ted Kennedy, socialistically-speaking.

See how easy that was to change your argument into mine?

But I digress. We aren't talking about Obama. So I'll answer your charge.

No... you're wrong.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Well, hate to tell you, it was Palin who brought a large number into the movement. Not everyone watches SNL, ya know. And there are many who still think her message is one of solid conservative fundamentals. I am one of them. I just don't know if she's the right candidate for president. But I'd sure as hell vote for her. She has big knockers! :D

shes got my vote, ps,,knockers, yep, shes got em.:D now where were we???????????????????????????????????????
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Very ignorant like closing.

And people are to take you seriously, for real :confused:

I don't seek liberal approval; or approval from anyone, for that matter. If you can't take a joke, Mr Facepalm; Mr Clown in the Gutter; Mr Ace Ventura, well then...

Oh%20Well.jpg
 

Camper

Not a Member
Just the opposite, the RNC has too many good ol' boys in it and needs to be shaken up a bit - she is better equipped to do that than anyone else.

See, that's just what I mean by the identity politics..Gender, notwithstanding, she's just as much a member of the good ol' boys network as her male counterparts.
 

Camper

Not a Member
Obama is nothing more than a typical establishment Democrat who has no problem shoving his economic agenda down our throats. Plus record of community activism puts him to the left of Ted Kennedy, socialistically-speaking.

See how easy that was to change your argument into mine?

But I digress. We aren't talking about Obama. So I'll answer your charge.

No... you're wrong.


Obama is a typical establishment Democrat..No argument there..He's just as pro establishment as any other partisan, Dumbocrat or Retardplican, including Palin(your apparent messiah).

Given Palin's record as governor in which oil companies were taxed heavily and spending continued to grow, unabated, she, by your definition of socialism fits that mold quite well.

In fact, one could argue that all of the so-called fiscally conservative candidates with executive experience have in fact governed to the left of Obama, fiscally speaking. Lest you forget, it was Mitt Romney(the current front runner) who signed into law a state version of Obama Care which essentially was the blueprint for Obama's plan.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Obama is a typical establishment Democrat..No argument there..He's just as pro establishment as any other partisan, Dumbocrat or Retardplican, including Palin(your apparent messiah).

Given Palin's record as governor in which oil companies were taxed heavily and spending continued to grow, unabated, she, by your definition of socialism fits that mold quite well.

In fact, one could argue that all of the so-called fiscally conservative candidates with executive experience have in fact governed to the left of Obama, fiscally speaking. Lest you forget, it was Mitt Romney(the current front runner) who signed into law a state version of Obama Care which essentially was the blueprint for Obama's plan.

Where did I say Palin was my messiah? I said I'D VOTE FOR HER! Nowhere did I say she was the best candidate. Nowhere did I say she would make an excellent president. I believe she would be serviceable... definitely above average.

Well, if I were running a state that relies on oil (and the oil companies rely on the state), I would tax them heavily too. That's not being socialist. That is being an opportunist, which everyone (with half a brain) is. Her constituents in Alaska benefited from her being governor. Granted, Alaska doesn't have many people... but it breeds heartiness, which is something the WH, and the country, could use.

If you're making your case for Ron Paul, you need to face the facts. He's not a spring chicken. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat, but he's going up against Mr Hopenchange with "I want to end welfare, SS, the Dept of Education, and a ton of other programs America has grown used to." I agree with him 99% of the time... but his message is a hard sell. Goldwater would've been a great president too. Instead, we got the Great Society. America sucks, in that regard. The people are TV-stupid.
 

Camper

Not a Member
Well, if I were running a state that relies on oil (and the oil companies rely on the state), I would tax them heavily too. That's not being socialist.

Well, see, by suggesting you would heavily tax these companies, you're no different from Obama who likes to play the old song and dance when he bandies about his proposal to implement winfall taxes on oil companies. Yes, there are numerous other ways to benefit from their presence that don't involve jacking up their tax rates and disincentivising production.


If you're making your case for Ron Paul, you need to face the facts. He's not a spring chicken. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat, but he's going up against Mr Hopenchange with "I want to end welfare, SS, the Dept of Education, and a ton of other programs America has grown used to." I agree with him 99% of the time... but his message is a hard sell. Goldwater would've been a great president too. Instead, we got the Great Society. America sucks, in that regard. The people are TV-stupid.

I hear what you're saying regarding Ron Paul's viability as a candidate. The reason he wouldn't make a good candidate is he's been marginalized too much by the establishment(the Media and the Party establishment). However, if he were to ever manage to shake the "wacko" label he's been tarred and feathered with, I think his message would resonate with a huge block of fiscally conservative independents.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Well, see, by suggesting you would heavily tax these companies, you're no different from Obama who likes to play the old song and dance when he bandies about his proposal to implement winfall taxes on oil companies. Yes, there are numerous other ways to benefit from their presence that don't involve jacking up their tax rates and disincentivising production.

I hear what you're saying regarding Ron Paul's viability as a candidate. The reason he wouldn't make a good candidate is he's been marginalized too much by the establishment(the Media and the Party establishment). However, if he were to ever manage to shake the "wacko" label he's been tarred and feathered with, I think his message would resonate with a huge block of fiscally conservative independents.

No... it's not the same as Obama. For one, he's federal gubermint. Palin was state gubermint. Big difference. You also have to look at Alaska. It is oil and fishing rich. I wouldn't tax the fishing industry as hard as oil, as fish and crab replenish themselves. Oil takes millions of years to do so. If oil companies want to set up shop in Alaska, take Alaska's resources, then leave Alaska, Palin had every right to tax them heavily. Once that oil is gone, Alaska has little else to fall back on. I'm sure MT, ND, and SD are doing the same thing with the shale oil companies... but I'm not positive.

About Ron Paul's wacko status... Goldwater had the same label. His campaign slogan was "In your heart, you know he's right." The libs sent one out, "In your guts, you know he's nuts." That should tell you something. It's not Ron Paul. It's not his ideology. it's that liberals want their cookies, and will say anything to persuade the American sheeple that the farther right, the crazier the candidate. They never talk about the mental state of the far left... Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Wilson, Gore, Michael Moore... you get the idea.
 

Camper

Not a Member
No... it's not the same as Obama. For one, he's federal gubermint. Palin was state gubermint. Big difference.

OK, so Palin's tax and spend record doesn't constitute "socialism" because it was at the state level..Interesting logic :confused:

So, by that logic, Romney Care must be acceptable because, after all, it was only at the state level...Nevermind that it was the blue print for Obama Care :rolleyes:


About Ron Paul's wacko status... Goldwater had the same label. His campaign slogan was "In your heart, you know he's right." The libs sent one out, "In your guts, you know he's nuts." That should tell you something. It's not Ron Paul. It's not his ideology. it's that liberals want their cookies, and will say anything to persuade the American sheeple that the farther right, the crazier the candidate. They never talk about the mental state of the far left... Stalin, Hitler, Castro, Wilson, Gore, Michael Moore... you get the idea.

Excellent point except that Ron Paul's biggest nemesis happens to be the establishment wing of the Republican Party.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Palin is nothing more than a typical establishment Republican who has no problem shoving her social agenda down our throats. Plus her fiscal record in Alaska(heavily taxing the oil companies) puts her to the left of Obama, fiscally-speaking.


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Nobody is to the left of Obama fiscally or otherwise.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
OK, so Palin's tax and spend record doesn't constitute "socialism" because it was at the state level..Interesting logic :confused:

I don't live in Alaska, so I don't know what social policies they have. What I do know is that every person in Alaska gets a stipend to live there. So, it's a bribe to get people to move there, I get it.

You say it's socialist, I say it isn't. I don't eat dry, white toast. Ie, I'm not 100% libertarian/conservative. There's a method to my madness. Liberty, in my mind, is #1. Business is still high on my list, as it relates to liberty. However, if there is going to be a tax, I'd rather it be solely on business or sales tax. Alaska has neither an income tax or sales tax.

Wikipedia: (I know... it's wikipedia)

To finance state government operations, Alaska depends primarily on petroleum revenues and federal subsidies. This allows it to have the lowest individual tax burden in the United States, and be one of only five states with no state sales tax, one of seven states that do not levy an individual income tax, and one of two states that has neither. The Department of Revenue Tax Divisionhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska#cite_note-65 reports regularly on the state's revenue sources. The Department also issues an annual summary of its operations, including new state laws that directly affect the tax division...


... In 2008 the Tax Foundation ranked Alaska as having the 4th most "business friendly" tax policy. More "friendly" states were Wyoming, Nevada, and South Dakota.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska#cite_note-66

Here's an excerpt of an article on the tax hikes:

Alaska collected an estimated $6 billion from the new tax during the fiscal year that ended June 30, according to the Alaska Oil and Gas Association. That helped push the state's total oil revenue — from new and existing taxes, as well as royalties — to more than $10 billion, double the amount received last year.
While many other states are confronting big budget deficits because of the troubled economy, Alaska officials are in the enviable position of exploring new ways to spend the state's multibillion-dollar budget surplus.
Some of that new cash will end up in the wallets of Alaska's residents.
Palin's administration last week gained legislative approval for a special $1,200 payment to every Alaskan to help cope with gas prices, which are among the highest in the country.
That check will come on top of the annual dividend of about $2,000 that each resident could receive this year from an oil-wealth savings account.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008103325_alaskatax07.html======================================


Higher taxes aren't necessarily an evil. And as far as her taking advantage of the oil companies for the betterment of her people... well, the oil companies are likewise taking advantage of Alaska. I don't see it as a conservative/liberal issue. I see it as good business sense. She simply raised the rent. If the oil companies didn't like it, there would be others who would pay it.


So, by that logic, Romney Care must be acceptable because, after all, it was only at the state level...Nevermind that it was the blue print for Obama Care :rolleyes:

Strawman argument.


Excellent point except that Ron Paul's biggest nemesis happens to be the establishment wing of the Republican Party.

Yes it is. However, if he can beat the MSM when running in the primaries, he'll still have to beat the MSM, the libs, and all of the lies. McCain thought he was the media darling, until he won the primaries. What he didn't realize was that the media wanted him to win because he was the most liberal... and that he'd be easy to beat by an MSM backed Obama.
 

Camper

Not a Member
Higher taxes aren't necessarily an evil. And as far as her taking advantage of the oil companies for the betterment of her people... well, the oil companies are likewise taking advantage of Alaska. I don't see it as a conservative/liberal issue. I see it as good business sense. She simply raised the rent. If the oil companies didn't like it, there would be others who would pay it.

The thing is Obama gets labeled a socialist for taking the same exact stance with respect to oil companies. This premise that oil companies need to be "taken advantage of"(read: taxed) is arguably another socialist redistribution of wealth scheme.
 
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tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
The thing is Obama gets labeled a socialism for taking the same exact stance with respect to oil companies. This premise that oil companies need to be "taken advantage of"(read: taxed) is arguably another socialist redistribution of wealth scheme.

no Obama gets labeled a socialist because he wants to spread the wealth around,not just the oil companys!he wants anyone who makes more then 250,000 a year to pay for people to have what they dont want to earn. to spread the wealth around as he calls it.

His whole plan has always been about trying to be like "Robinhood" STEAL from the RICH and GIVE to the POOR.Whats funny is he wants america to belive that anybidy who makes over 250,000 a year is rich.He is being called a socialist because he wants the Government to have total say over our lives.He is being called a socialist because he belives the constitution has no meaning and that it should be rewriten to fit his plans.And when he cant do this he just ignores it.He is called a socialist because he wants to take away our rights (free speach,guns).

So what palin did with the oil companys is far from doing what Obama wants to do.


http://themoderatevoice.com/23805/obamas-redistribution-of-wealth-quote-in-context/
 
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tbubster

Seasoned Expediter
"Those fissures are going to recede, and the Republican party is likely to become more united on the issue of creating jobs and attacking Obama's record,"

Really?

OK if someone thinks so ... but I feel their cross roads were the first time they tried to exert some of their power in the house and told to shut up and sit down by the republican leadership.

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Camper

Not a Member
He is called a socialist because he wants to take away our rights (free speach,guns).

At the end of the day, the objective of both major parties is the elimination of individual rights. The only difference is which rights each of them targets.



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