Tea Party at a crossroads
- Thread starter Ragman
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tbubster
Seasoned Expediter
Did you watch the video?I do not need "proof"of anything he is doing that is Obama talking not me saying what he said.His words not mine
He proves for me his agenda when he speaks.
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greg334
Veteran Expediter
tbubster; said:
Really?
Seriously??
Well I watched the video and trying to figure out why anyone actually gives a crap of what he said 10years ago or if anyone actually read the entire comments section of what I think is sort of balanced opinions other than Obama is evil or Obama did this today.
The thing that puts this in a bad light is simply that we already knew all of this in 2008 and nothing has changed ... he is what he is and we knew this for 3 years ... also many of us know that he can't just wave his hand, have a light from the heavens appear and we become a second class country under a sickle and hammer, that's congress's job.
tbubster
Seasoned Expediter
Yes really.The end of the video was was from when he was running and plummer joe asked him about raising his taxes.you are right that nothing has changed.What I was talking about it your comments on the tea party.You say and write post saying you want things to happen in all your post,cut taxes 10% across the board.Give them a chace man.I went back over a year in the soapbox and im sure i missed some but you have never really said anything good about the tea party.or republicans.yes you talk bad a little about the democrats but no where near what you do about the republicans and the tea party.They helped republicans take back controll of the house less then a year ago.and have only had controll of the house for 7 months and counting.yet you write about them as if they have controll of it all.And can do anything they want.Well they can not.Also in your wisdom you have decided that the tea party will pretty much die out and go away.(not your excat words)
You talk so much crap about the tea party and republicans and how they should do so much better and they are not,so whats the point they are gonna lose anyway.yet say you want many of the things they are NOW saying they stand for it seems like you are democrat plant that wants Obama to win.Even though you try and make it seem otherwise.
The tea party said no new taxs and thats what they got.Dont forget It was Obama that told cantor dont call my bluff on this and they did.Obama blinked!Did you really think there would not be a deal?so then see its those evil republicans and teapartyers that are holding the governmet and the country hostage.REALLY?,NO NEW TAXES.They are the ones who have changed the way this was done.They are the ones who really turned this into a debate.They are the ones who made sure that the need for spending cuts will be a big part of the upcoming election.Yet you write as if they are forgetting what they stand for.and are just bowing to the powers that be.You seem to forget these are many of the things these people ran on and got elected on.
Kinda like the newest poll from cbs/new york times=poll shows "negative view of tea party on the rise".Yet out of 43 questions there where THREE on the tea party.There is even questions about BUSH!They polled less then 1000 people.The rest of the poll was about Obama,the Democrats and the Republicans.yet nothing is written in the story about their bad numbers.Just about how bad the tea party is.then at the end there is a surprise.they say that most of the negative numbers came from democrats polled.
Really?=yes Seriously?yes Not an attack you asked really?and seriously?and I answerd and explaned why.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
OK Here is what I think of the tea party - it is a great a start of something positive. I believe that Marco Rubio (or someone just like him) would be the choice to lead the republicans in the house because he took the RIGHT approach to the entire matter when he was elected - saying at his victory speech that he and others didn't win just to be like others and not to get a BIG HEAD about it but DO THE JOB they were sent there to do.
I also think that many in the tea party are libertarians or classic liberals NOT CONSERVATIVES but have to use that term to be accepted by others in the main stream republican camps. They have the RIGHT ideas and many of their followers are right there with them, which because they want to DO THE RIGHT THING like I do, I would like them to succeed.
THE PROBLEM is that I view the republican party as a has-been party made up of good ol' boys (and girls) who want to shove some agenda down our throats while telling those in the tea party to STFU and sit down. THEY ARE JUST LIKE THE LIBERALS EVERYONE HERE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT - NO REAL DIFFERENCE!!
In that seven months, the republicans caved on a lot of issues and passed things with the stupid idea that they, the dems will compromise on other things. The tea party people are doing the RIGHT thing by telling the party not to push them into trying to vote for things they don't agree with, like the 2011 budget, and expect them to be on board with things like the debt ceiling bills.
Well I'm not talking about the tea party, I am talking about the republican party and their cheerleaders - the conservative press. The problem is they are NOT DOING A THING but compromising and this is exactly what they did with the years between 1995 and 2006 when they controlled congress. Read this carefully and if you need to see proof go to the congressional record - the republicans passed more bills that were either created by dems or had direct input from democratic members on the committees in congress than they did on bills they themselves created or sponsored. During the Clinton era, the same idiot republicans that we have in power in the house and senate are the same ones who helped pass a lot of stuff Clinton and/or the dems wanted to have passed. WE tend to forget that fact and many times (like the filibustering in the senate over court appointees) the republicans caved to get something moved out of committees while expecting some other compromised on other things that hit the floor.
The people of the tea party said cut spending. They screamed that over and over and they ended up with the no tax increase thing instead because the republican leadership "had to pass" the debt bill NOW and needed the votes. The sad compromise is based on this idea that we will get real cuts by the end of the year with the results in 10 years but we won't see that and like a bunch of tea party people, I too say that 10 years is not the time line, we need cuts NOW which the republican party refuses to stand firm on - period.
I don't think many of the tea party people care about polls (as I don't because they can be skewed), they seem to care about results and reading about a few, they don't care about reelection but getting results.
I hope that wasn't a stupid response?
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
OK Here is what I think of the tea party - it is a great a start of something positive. I believe that Marco Rubio (or someone just like him) would be the choice to lead the republicans in the house because he took the RIGHT approach to the entire matter when he was elected - saying at his victory speech that he and others didn't win just to be like others and not to get a BIG HEAD about it but DO THE JOB they were sent there to do.
I hope that wasn't a stupid response?
Ummm.....Rubio isn't in the house of representatives.....he's a senator.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Yep you're right, but irregardless point is it is his attitude that we need in congress and that is what the republicans are fighting against every step.
Tennesseahawk
Veteran Expediter
Greg... it's funny that you mention the Repubs try to get along with the Dems, by letting them write legislation when the Repubs are in power. The Democrats NEVER let the Repubs write legislation when the Dems are in power. I swear, the Repubs are akin to a child who just wants to be liked by the mean kids on the block.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
Exactly! When you think of how the healthcare law was just shoved down everyone's throat without Republican input, that being just ONE example of how it was under Pelosi, it takes a bigger person to NOT want to be "mean kids" right back!!
I think it's some kind of class envy. They want to be included in everything the liberal elites do outside of the chambers of congress, maybe this plays into their "go along to get along" attitudes. Sad really, so busy being wanna bees that they can't get the real work of the people done.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Exactly what I am saying.
All of this euphoric championing of these possible candidates leaves us with the same old party who is determined to play with the big kids down the street because they are desperate to be included. There are only a couple of people who are thinking outside the box and they will not make it through the primaries. This is one reason why both republican people and many on the left have said outright they, the rnc needs to step up to the plate and pick some one to run and stick with them - NOW
Camper
Not a Member
There's virtually no difference, fiscally-speaking between the GOP front runners(Romney, Bachman, Pawlenty, etc.) and Obama/the Democrats. They talk a good game with respect to fiscal conservatism but they under deliver where the rubber meets the road.
They won't make it out of the primaries because the establishment will see to it that they don't. Hence the problem with the two party system. It stifles out of the box thinking of any kind.
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greg334
Veteran Expediter
I agree with you to a point - they never seem to deliver.
What bothers me is this idea that there is a conservative - fiscal, social, religious - who will do anything other than the same thing that the dems do now to govern. They will do the same thing with the same results in mind - controlling the people.
What bothers me is this idea that there is a conservative - fiscal, social, religious - who will do anything other than the same thing that the dems do now to govern. They will do the same thing with the same results in mind - controlling the people.
Agree with Greg's last post, except for the objective, which I believe is nothing more than getting reelected.
And why does neither party ever consider budget cuts aimed at their own salaries & benefits [and those of past officials] ? If we all have to sacrifice, why don't they? And why is nobody asking them that question?
And why does neither party ever consider budget cuts aimed at their own salaries & benefits [and those of past officials] ? If we all have to sacrifice, why don't they? And why is nobody asking them that question?
OK Here is what I think of the tea party - it is a great a start of something positive. I believe that Marco Rubio (or someone just like him) would be the choice to lead the republicans in the house because he took the RIGHT approach to the entire matter when he was elected - saying at his victory speech that he and others didn't win just to be like others and not to get a BIG HEAD about it but DO THE JOB they were sent there to do.
I also think that many in the tea party are libertarians or classic liberals NOT CONSERVATIVES but have to use that term to be accepted by others in the main stream republican camps. They have the RIGHT ideas and many of their followers are right there with them, which because they want to DO THE RIGHT THING like I do, I would like them to succeed.
THE PROBLEM is that I view the republican party as a has-been party made up of good ol' boys (and girls) who want to shove some agenda down our throats while telling those in the tea party to STFU and sit down. THEY ARE JUST LIKE THE LIBERALS EVERYONE HERE IS COMPLAINING ABOUT - NO REAL DIFFERENCE!!
In that seven months, the republicans caved on a lot of issues and passed things with the stupid idea that they, the dems will compromise on other things. The tea party people are doing the RIGHT thing by telling the party not to push them into trying to vote for things they don't agree with, like the 2011 budget, and expect them to be on board with things like the debt ceiling bills.
Well I'm not talking about the tea party, I am talking about the republican party and their cheerleaders - the conservative press. The problem is they are NOT DOING A THING but compromising and this is exactly what they did with the years between 1995 and 2006 when they controlled congress. Read this carefully and if you need to see proof go to the congressional record - the republicans passed more bills that were either created by dems or had direct input from democratic members on the committees in congress than they did on bills they themselves created or sponsored. During the Clinton era, the same idiot republicans that we have in power in the house and senate are the same ones who helped pass a lot of stuff Clinton and/or the dems wanted to have passed. WE tend to forget that fact and many times (like the filibustering in the senate over court appointees) the republicans caved to get something moved out of committees while expecting some other compromised on other things that hit the floor.
The people of the tea party said cut spending. They screamed that over and over and they ended up with the no tax increase thing instead because the republican leadership "had to pass" the debt bill NOW and needed the votes. The sad compromise is based on this idea that we will get real cuts by the end of the year with the results in 10 years but we won't see that and like a bunch of tea party people, I too say that 10 years is not the time line, we need cuts NOW which the republican party refuses to stand firm on - period.
I don't think many of the tea party people care about polls (as I don't because they can be skewed), they seem to care about results and reading about a few, they don't care about reelection but getting results.
I hope that wasn't a stupid response?
Mercy there 334, u must be a graduate of Turtle University in exhaustive writings and advanced info. Good stuff though.
Camper
Not a Member
And why does neither party ever consider budget cuts aimed at their own salaries & benefits [and those of past officials] ? If we all have to sacrifice, why don't they? And why is nobody asking them that question?
Until a true third party emerges, those questions are going to continue to go unanswered. One of the many byproducts of this two party system is the lack of accountability on the part of the political elites who have a virtual monopoly of power.
Posted with my Droid EO Forum App
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Well OK I get that, you're right.
BUT you know it seems that the party thing isn't as important as the people exercising their rights in the form of demanding change.
Maybe we need to look at having three new amendments - one to recall our representatives and have term limits with a cap on staff and benefits, one to force a balanced budget and limit the size of the federal government based on population or GDP or something like that and one to repeal the 17th, 25th and 26th amendments.
BUT you know it seems that the party thing isn't as important as the people exercising their rights in the form of demanding change.
Maybe we need to look at having three new amendments - one to recall our representatives and have term limits with a cap on staff and benefits, one to force a balanced budget and limit the size of the federal government based on population or GDP or something like that and one to repeal the 17th, 25th and 26th amendments.