staying warm?

brycey2010

Seasoned Expediter
I have read allot of threads on here about this topic, i have an express van with bulkhead, dont really want a propane heather in the truck, Espar is expensive as indeed the generator solution, anyone idled their van all night? if so how much fuel did you use? i never thought twice about idling in the company diesel semi in the winters, but ill bet the 4.8 v8 gas engine will suck it up, any ideas? otherwise im guessing i will be buying a Honda 2000 generator and a fan heater....
Rich
 

xiggi

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
By the time you buy the Honda and an aux. fuel tank to last the night you will not be that far from the Espar. The Honda could also run air in the summer so it would be more versatile.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
you don't want to use propane of a generator, an espar is too expensive at this point...short of building a wood fire from old skids, idling is all you got left......use a good synthetic motor oil and make sure that the coolant level stays up where it is suppose to be.....and watch that high speed blower relay, they tend to burnout...id not run the blower on high, 3/4 is the most i run mine at anytime....
 

brycey2010

Seasoned Expediter
Thanks i figured it would be one of those 2 options, its such a small place to keep warm though, im convinced there must be a more economical way,if not ill take a look at the installation for the Espar, see if i can do it myself.............the generator would be a pain to setup each night, and then worry about it getting stolen, rained on etc...
 

brycey2010

Seasoned Expediter
you don't want to use propane of a generator, an espar is too expensive at this point...short of building a wood fire from old skids, idling is all you got left......use a good synthetic motor oil and make sure that the coolant level stays up where it is suppose to be.....and watch that high speed blower relay, they tend to burnout...id not run the blower on high, 3/4 is the most i run mine at anytime....

how much fuel do you think it would take for an 8 hour night? i got fresh Mobil 1 synthetic, clean coolant...ill give it a go, fill the tank, idle, refill the tank in the morning, see what it used, i just bought a carbon monoxide alarm..
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
how much fuel do you think it would take for an 8 hour night? i got fresh Mobil 1 synthetic, clean coolant...ill give it a go, fill the tank, idle, refill the tank in the morning, see what it used, i just bought a carbon monoxide alarm..

I would leave a window open a crack.
 

x06col

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Retired Expediter
US Army
Try it the old fashoned way. I use a king size feather tick and lay on half, cover with the other half.. Don't use any fuel, don't cost much, won't get rained on, not worried about it getting stolen, cause they'll have to take me with it, and, the maintenance is pretty minimal.

And for you smart asses, it'll keep the sun off in the summer.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Try it the old fashoned way. I use a king size feather tick and lay on half, cover with the other half.. Don't use any fuel, don't cost much, won't get rained on, not worried about it getting stolen, cause they'll have to take me with it, and, the maintenance is pretty minimal.

And for you smart asses, it'll keep the sun off in the summer.

One way to improve your existence going this route is to have a remote auto-start. That way, you wake up and hit the button and let the van warm up while you hit the snooze alarm a couple times.

That's another so-so fix for winter idling. Run the engine to warm up the van, go to sleep. If you wake up from the cold, hit the button and let it run for 20 minutes until it shuts off because you didn't turn the key. By that time, hopefully you'll be warm and asleep. Doing that 3 times should take you through a night.

Won't work for AC in the summer, but if you're sleeping with a nice blanket, that should work. Maybe you end up idling 1 hour, collectively, overnight.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
299 for 3000 watt gen, mount it on the front or rear on a platform . My rear platform swings left or right so the forklft can load freight,I use gas heat from a propane tank or i have a 1500 watt heater electric,,runs 8 hrs on 4 gallons gas depending on the weather. I also have a twin size electric blanket , I am ok with that too. U will find that idling a gas engine is expensive not to mention wear and tear on ur engine if u idle it all nite and run it during the day or ever which way u work it out . So as u can see I have an electric blanket,,gas heat propane, or an electric heater and if I have to, i can use the engine heater.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I have the 6.0 engine and it uses about 3/4-7/8 gallon per hour to idle so you're looking at 6 gallons for an 8 hour nap. That adds up fast. The Espar is the way to go for heat. It's about 3/8 gallon for 8 hours. I've got an Onan 2800 watt generator and use a 1500 watt plug in heater when I have to. I have a roof a/c unit for summer that also runs off the Onan. Even with that I'm going to get an Espar at some point. The Onan burns 1/3 gallon per hour under load so it will run about 3 hours on the same fuel the engine uses in an hour.
 

milpig

Expert Expediter
I keep it simple also.-20 sleeping bag. In the morning use the remote starter before getting out.

Cabella's has the outdoorsman series -20 bag 20% off right now. It is an oversized rectangle bag that is warmer than my army ecws bag.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Idling a gas engine can be very expensive. Figure about a gallon per hour, a little less as Leo noted, but it's more than just fuel cost. Rule of thumb for cost analysis is that idling a gasser will cost you about $2-$3 an hour in wear and tear on the engine. You won't pay that $2 or $3 up front, but you will over time, in increased repair costs and decreased fuel economy over time, and/or a shortened lifespan of the van.

Every 8 hours of idling is the same as driving 100 miles, both in fuel costs and wear and tear. It's about $5 an hour to idle, with $2.50 to $3 of that in immediate fuel and oils costs, and the rest of it over the long run. But long run or not, you will be paying for it. If you idle roughly 1300 hours per winter (see next paragraph), that's the same as driving 16,250 miles a year while not moving. Over 5 years that's 81,250 miles, and your van's lifespan just got shortened by one year.

If you idle 8 hours a day during the week, and 16 hours a day on the weekends, that's 72 hours in a week, times 4 months (18 weeks), that's 1296 hours. That $3449 in fuel costs alone at $2.70 a gallon. Add another $2592 for the $2 an hour for wear and tear, and a $1200 Espar ($1500 or $1600 if you pay to have it installed, which I recommend unless you've installed them before) starts looking really cheap.

Some will idle less than that, some will idle more. But even if you idle less, down to the point where it's costing you only $1500 each winter to idle, the Espar pays for itself the second year, and starts paying you that $1500 each year thereafter. But for most people the Espar pays for itself the first winter.

If you do a thorough cost analysis of all of the ways to keep warm, the Espar heater is far and away the most cost effective. A generator is great for running electrical appliances and charging batteries, even air conditioners, but running an electric heater with one is not nearly as cost effective as an Espar. The generator will be running at near full load all the time, which burns a lot of gas, and the fan heater won't put out even heat like the forced-airflow of the Espar will.

I wouldn't recommend actually buying it this way at all, but if you look at it, it's actually more cost effective to put the Espar on a 22% credit card and take 4 years to pay it off than it is to idle. It's actually a lot more cost effective. All it takes to pay for the Espar is a couple of good weeks in the van.

The Espar will go through about a gallon and a half of fuel a day. My Sprinter has no bulkhead thus the Espar works to heat the entire van. It goes through about a gallon of fuel every 12-15 hours, depending on how cold it is outside. The van is well insulated. With a bulkhead and only having to heat the front half of the van, it'll use even less fuel.

If you enjoy being cold and sleeping in flight suits, then an Espar probably isn't for you. I did my first winter in expediting without an Espar heater. I'll never do another one without it. It's the most cost effective, most comfortable way to live out here. The Turtle's nose and toes have got to stay warm.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Espar...you need a power source...like batteries? inverter? isolator? that is included in the 1500$ ?

Typical 1 nighter do the batteries stay charged thru the night?

Then you have to idle to recharge right?
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
OVM, one battery can do it and no it won't stay charged because if you draw electricity from it, it loses its charge.

Flight suit?

That is the most comfortable way to stay warm for me when I don't use my big torpedo heater in the truck.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
OVM, one battery can do it and no it won't stay charged because if you draw electricity from it, it loses its charge.

Flight suit?

That is the most comfortable way to stay warm for me when I don't use my big torpedo heater in the truck.

Turtle has an Espar but yet he idles almost 24/7...I don't get it..
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
I don't know, I only saw his shell twice and it was buttoned up tight.

I know my espar which is a lot older draws 5 amps after it starts which it draws 15 for 30 seconds on start up. At 5 amps, my battery lasts 8 hours without an issue and I charge it when I warm the truck up. If I had three batteries, it would not be an issue for two days.
 

Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
my first year in a van i sat inside then warmed the van, jumped into the sleeping bag and pulled the stocking cap over my head. some nites were better than others.



now i just roll closer to the furnace and occasionally put my cold hands on her warm body. :p



seriously, we are getting an espar before it gets really cold. figure at that time we will spend all our time between i 70 and bob bulloch blvd.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Turtle has an Espar but yet he idles almost 24/7...I don't get it..
Well, the fridge I have draws a lot, 11-12 amps. The TV and DVR receiver draws another 5-7 amps, and then there's the computer and lights, and stuff, so the batteries get drawn down rather quickly. I idle to recharge them. Nowhere near 24/7 though. I've done that at times when the batteries are about shot and they have almost no capacity, though, but I'll do that for a while, maybe a few weeks, then replace the batteries. After that it's usually no more than 8 hours in a day of having to idle. The Espar doesn't factor into things.

I really need to get a generator, even a POS like Chef has :D , just to recharge batteries. Heck, an 800-Watt generator would do that.

Espar...you need a power source...like batteries? inverter? isolator? that is included in the 1500$ ?

Typical 1 nighter do the batteries stay charged thru the night?

Then you have to idle to recharge right?

The amp draws of the Airtronic 2 and the Airtronic 4
AMP Draw
START
D2 - 8.3 amps
D4 - 8.3 amps

BOOST
D2 - 2.8 amps
D4 - 3.3 amps

HIGH
D2 - 1.9 amps
D4 - 2.0 amps

MEDIUM
D2 - 1.0 amps
D4 - 1.1 amps

LOW
D2 - 0.7 amps
D4 - 0.6 amps


And for those who would like to know...

FUEL CONSUMPTION, Gallons per hour
BOOST
D2 - .07
D4 - .13

HIGH
D2 - .06
D4 - .10

MEDIUM
D2 - .04
D4 - .07

LOW
D2 - .03
D4 - .03


But on the amp draw, the Boost mode is only for a few minutes to quickly warm the van up, then it quickly drops down through the various level, spending most of the time on Low or Medium, depending on how cold it is and how well insulated the van is. Overall it's less than one amp per hour.

A single hybrid marine battery is all that's necessary. You could run it off the cranking battery, but the obvious problem is that a cranking battery isn't really designed for that kind of relentless low amp draw, which is incidentally about the same as a trolling motor, which is why marine batteries are well suited for it. If the battery is to be used solely for the Espar, then an isolator and battery cables is all that's needed to recharge it, and you should rarely, if ever, have to idle to recharge the battery, as driving down the road will be more than enough to recharge it.

With a 125 amp marine battery, at 8 hours a day, you could go 7 days before it got to 50% DoD.
 
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