have never driven a truck and never plan to,..... So when your team dumps your truck in southern California, how are you going to get your truck back to your area, providing you live on the East coast?.......your dumping your solid full time jobs to get into this? I understand the lure, open roads, wind in your face...... Will your employer be happy to hear you on the phone discussing whatevers with your team instead of doing his work?
starting up, looking for drivers, questions
- Thread starter markwilson
- Start date
markwilson
Seasoned Expediter
no, just trying to gather as much information here as well as other sources, make an informed decision, and buy (or not) one truck. we will be keeping our jobs.
markwilson
Seasoned Expediter
so wait, is it at all feasible to think about buying a new cab, with used sleeper/box?
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
Obviously, you are hel* bent on doing this. i really think all you are looking for is validation and nothing more...even the questions you are asking show you have not done much research into this industry past what your friend is giving you..and asking questions here should be looking for what you couldn't find AFTER your research....So go for it!!!
So with what appears to be your insistance on doing this, have you done any research to find REPO'd units!?!? I mean, sense you are going to EVER drive it, why build a truck when you can get one already to run??? There are more then a handful of them.....
And again, as the question was asked i think 3 times, what are you going to do when your truck is dumped 2000 miles from where you are located by a team that simply got tired of the BS of dealing with dispatch,? And they even stole everything that was in it and sold it or pawned it!?!? Think it can't happen? do some research.....
So with what appears to be your insistance on doing this, have you done any research to find REPO'd units!?!? I mean, sense you are going to EVER drive it, why build a truck when you can get one already to run??? There are more then a handful of them.....
And again, as the question was asked i think 3 times, what are you going to do when your truck is dumped 2000 miles from where you are located by a team that simply got tired of the BS of dealing with dispatch,? And they even stole everything that was in it and sold it or pawned it!?!? Think it can't happen? do some research.....
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Why not buy a truck with out mortgaging your house (unless your prepared to lose it) then lease it out to your friend at Panther. Sit back and watch the money roll in?
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Feasible ? ..... sure, absolutely .....
Even at all remotely frickin' sane, considering the circumstances you are in, in terms of an absolute lack of any experience in this industry ? (meaning trucking generally, and not this niche specifically)
...... well ......
Look, it's really no fun whatsoever raining on anyone's parade .... but for some folks there are times when just sitting back and saying nothing, or not bothering to be completely honest is a sin of very considerable magnitude ...
I can guarantee ya there are dipwads out there that would be quite happy to completely mislead ya .... and would laugh the entire time they were doing it .... but this ain't one of them times ....
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
Markwilson,I'm glad you found EO,but I'm afraid your going to make the biggest mistake of your life.
I don't know who your talking with,but this guy that is talking to you makes things seem perfect,and in no way is that ever going to be.Being in a partnership with one truck won't make you your investment back,and having multiple trucks will just cause you to go broke faster.
YOu want to get into a TVal straight truck,this might be fine if you could haul TVal loads on a daily bases,but this isnt going to happen.YOu also wont be getting TVAl rates when you haul non TVal loads.To find out if this is true,just call a Panther recruiter,and if he says it's so.make sure it's in your contract.
Greg said dont put up your house,thats exactly right.If your credit is that good,buy a new truck,use your signature for down payment,Payment might seem high,but you wont be out anything when the venture goes in the tank.It will be a total tax write off and you wont be out any cash from your savings
Another thing,yes the interest will be high but Between the Interest and depreciation,you will be writing off more than you are actually are paying off.
Buying a used truck is like buying a used car,why would you want someone elses head aches.Any truck with over 400000 miles is just looking for something to happen to it.You ever heard of Murphy's law?it every truck drivers partner
I don't know who your talking with,but this guy that is talking to you makes things seem perfect,and in no way is that ever going to be.Being in a partnership with one truck won't make you your investment back,and having multiple trucks will just cause you to go broke faster.
YOu want to get into a TVal straight truck,this might be fine if you could haul TVal loads on a daily bases,but this isnt going to happen.YOu also wont be getting TVAl rates when you haul non TVal loads.To find out if this is true,just call a Panther recruiter,and if he says it's so.make sure it's in your contract.
Greg said dont put up your house,thats exactly right.If your credit is that good,buy a new truck,use your signature for down payment,Payment might seem high,but you wont be out anything when the venture goes in the tank.It will be a total tax write off and you wont be out any cash from your savings
Another thing,yes the interest will be high but Between the Interest and depreciation,you will be writing off more than you are actually are paying off.
Buying a used truck is like buying a used car,why would you want someone elses head aches.Any truck with over 400000 miles is just looking for something to happen to it.You ever heard of Murphy's law?it every truck drivers partner
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Mark
I feel you are not listening at all.
Read those questions and answer them yourself.
The problem, despite owning a Bay, is that your enthusiasm is over shadowing reality.
jimby82
Veteran Expediter
Mark,
I seldom post here, and like you, I too have no experience in expediting. (Trucking more than 25 years ago yes, but not expediting.) You seem to be bound and determined to proceed against the advice of those infinitely more experienced in these matters. I do think you are overlooking a very important point. (Sorry if I missed this somewhere along the line.)
Have you talked to anyone at Panther concerning your plans? Would they even be willing to take you on as an (completely) inexperienced fleet owner? I think that would be a critical factor in deciding on this as an investment/endeavor. (I also would think this is something ANY financial institution would be questioning given your lack of experience or trucking background. -- That whole cart/horse think springs to mind.)
Just my thoughts, take them for what they are worth, which is probably not much!
I seldom post here, and like you, I too have no experience in expediting. (Trucking more than 25 years ago yes, but not expediting.) You seem to be bound and determined to proceed against the advice of those infinitely more experienced in these matters. I do think you are overlooking a very important point. (Sorry if I missed this somewhere along the line.)
Have you talked to anyone at Panther concerning your plans? Would they even be willing to take you on as an (completely) inexperienced fleet owner? I think that would be a critical factor in deciding on this as an investment/endeavor. (I also would think this is something ANY financial institution would be questioning given your lack of experience or trucking background. -- That whole cart/horse think springs to mind.)
Just my thoughts, take them for what they are worth, which is probably not much!
OK, a few points here that need to be carefully considered.
1 - There are probably some out there, but I don't know of any carriers that will allow anything substantial to be changed in their lease contracts. It's pretty much a take-it or leave-it kinda deal.
2 - Do you really think an LLC will protect your personal assets after a catastrophe? It won't. It will protect your assets in some areas, like protecting your assets from the liabilities of the business, where creditors cannot come after your personal assets for liabilities of the truck. However, if you have any of your personal assets tied in with the business in any way, like, oh, I dunno, a second mortgage on the home to buy the truck, then the LLC is worthless. Also, if one of your drivers gets into an accident and you get sued, it won't be the truck that will be sued, it'll be you, and the LLC won't help you one bit.
An LLC used to be a pretty solid asset protection strategy until a bankruptcy court in Colorado ruled that a debtor couldn’t protect personal assets in an LLC from a personal bankruptcy. Since then the floodgates have opened and the piercing of the corporate veil is easier and easier. The only decent personal asset protections you're going to get is if you go with a full blown corporation, and even then you're still screwed if you put up any personal assets, like a house, as collateral.
3 - Getting into this business as a fleet owner with no experience or knowledge of the industry is, bluntly put, pretty friggin' stupid. But doing so is pure Einstein-esque genius compared to someone getting into this business as a fleet owner with no experience and using their house for financing.
4 - You see this as an opportunity. But it's not, not at all, not if you have to finance your house, even a small line of credit, to enter into the business. What you see as an opportunity is, in reality, you trying to manufacture an opportunity that doesn't exist.
5 - If you want to dabble in this business and get through the bumps and bruises you're going to have to lose the delusions right quick. To wit:
"6) learn the system-- with understanding that there will be bumps and bruises in the 'learning curve' period, act upon 1-5 and buy first truck. use first 3-6 months to learn as problems arise, then see if project is viable. if so, repeat and build fleet."
The "Learning Curve" is a year, at a minimum, not 3-6 months. People have been telling you one year since you first posted on this matter, and after considerable comments that keep confirming that number, you boiled it all down to 3-6 months, and if it's viable then repeat and build the fleet?!?! OMG. That's utterly delusional, and I'm being kind.
It takes a year to learn the basics about this business, and that's if you're out there in the truck doing it. To sit at home as fleet owner, you'll be doing wonderfully if you can learn as much as 25% of what you need to know in the first year, in order to make informed decisions about what to do in the second year. And every year in the business brings with it brand new problems to deal with. The condition of the truck changes, rules and procedures at the carrier changes, education changes a lot, and drivers change. Every decision you or the drivers make change things. This is not an industry you can put on paper and manage it from paper. It's a constantly changing, fluid business that is managed literally from the seat of your pants, and unless you know all of the hundreds of possible ramifications of each and every decision, you'll almost certainly make the wrong one every time.
The biggest problem you're going to have is that you won't have the opportunity to talk with very many, if any, failed fleet owners, and most fleet owners are, in fact, failed fleet owners. Only a small percentage of them are successful. If you keep looking at that small pool of successful fleet owners, you will never learn the mistakes that the failed ones made. There was a time, just a few years ago, when one could enter into this business as an ignorant fleet owner and be successful in spite of their ignorance. The bumps and bruises and bad decisions of the learning curve didn't sink the business outright, and one could generally recover in time, because there was always plenty of freight for the recovery. But that was when the demand far outweighed the supply of trucks. That's not the case any more, and every decision becomes critical where the bumps and bruises of the learning curve can be fatal.
The only way to get around that is to enter into the business with as little risk as possible. At the top of the Do-Not-Risk List is tying your house to the truck. Next on the list is to have the smallest truck payment possible.
No amount of research will change the simple fact that you are getting into this business on the roll of the dice. If it were easy and enough research could make it a sure bet, then 70-80% of new fleet owners wouldn't be losing their shirts. Never gamble what you cannot afford to lose.
Like I said earlier, there are certain stereotypes in this business that we can see and recognize. And you're one of them. There's nothing inherently wrong in being a stereotype, as we all fit into one or another. The problem is, the stereotype you fall into is one that stereotypically fails. The odds of a fleet owner succeeding in this business is about 1 in 5, or about 20%. That's a fact. And those are people who know what they're doing. Coming into this with no real experience and with deluded expectations reduces your odds to just about the same as throwing snake eyes: 1 in 36, or about 2.78%. I'm not kidding.
You've got a shot at this if you already have a really good income and you're gonna try the expediting thing with your 'laying around' mad money and it's not that big a deal if you lose it. But if you expect things to work out like they do on paper, your chances drop dramatically to that roll of the dice odds. And if you put your house on the line to do it, you've got no shot at all. None. You're chances of succeeding with your house tied to this while not exactly zero, is about the same as rolling snake eyes twice in a row, which is 1-in-1296, or 0.0772%
Knowing all this, knowing all the advice that you have been given here, and choosing to ignore it, is the clearest indication of bad decision making that I know of, and if you power through and are determined to do it anyway, then your chances of success is throwing snake eyes three times in a row, which ain't good.
1 - There are probably some out there, but I don't know of any carriers that will allow anything substantial to be changed in their lease contracts. It's pretty much a take-it or leave-it kinda deal.
2 - Do you really think an LLC will protect your personal assets after a catastrophe? It won't. It will protect your assets in some areas, like protecting your assets from the liabilities of the business, where creditors cannot come after your personal assets for liabilities of the truck. However, if you have any of your personal assets tied in with the business in any way, like, oh, I dunno, a second mortgage on the home to buy the truck, then the LLC is worthless. Also, if one of your drivers gets into an accident and you get sued, it won't be the truck that will be sued, it'll be you, and the LLC won't help you one bit.
An LLC used to be a pretty solid asset protection strategy until a bankruptcy court in Colorado ruled that a debtor couldn’t protect personal assets in an LLC from a personal bankruptcy. Since then the floodgates have opened and the piercing of the corporate veil is easier and easier. The only decent personal asset protections you're going to get is if you go with a full blown corporation, and even then you're still screwed if you put up any personal assets, like a house, as collateral.
3 - Getting into this business as a fleet owner with no experience or knowledge of the industry is, bluntly put, pretty friggin' stupid. But doing so is pure Einstein-esque genius compared to someone getting into this business as a fleet owner with no experience and using their house for financing.
4 - You see this as an opportunity. But it's not, not at all, not if you have to finance your house, even a small line of credit, to enter into the business. What you see as an opportunity is, in reality, you trying to manufacture an opportunity that doesn't exist.
5 - If you want to dabble in this business and get through the bumps and bruises you're going to have to lose the delusions right quick. To wit:
"6) learn the system-- with understanding that there will be bumps and bruises in the 'learning curve' period, act upon 1-5 and buy first truck. use first 3-6 months to learn as problems arise, then see if project is viable. if so, repeat and build fleet."
The "Learning Curve" is a year, at a minimum, not 3-6 months. People have been telling you one year since you first posted on this matter, and after considerable comments that keep confirming that number, you boiled it all down to 3-6 months, and if it's viable then repeat and build the fleet?!?! OMG. That's utterly delusional, and I'm being kind.
It takes a year to learn the basics about this business, and that's if you're out there in the truck doing it. To sit at home as fleet owner, you'll be doing wonderfully if you can learn as much as 25% of what you need to know in the first year, in order to make informed decisions about what to do in the second year. And every year in the business brings with it brand new problems to deal with. The condition of the truck changes, rules and procedures at the carrier changes, education changes a lot, and drivers change. Every decision you or the drivers make change things. This is not an industry you can put on paper and manage it from paper. It's a constantly changing, fluid business that is managed literally from the seat of your pants, and unless you know all of the hundreds of possible ramifications of each and every decision, you'll almost certainly make the wrong one every time.
The biggest problem you're going to have is that you won't have the opportunity to talk with very many, if any, failed fleet owners, and most fleet owners are, in fact, failed fleet owners. Only a small percentage of them are successful. If you keep looking at that small pool of successful fleet owners, you will never learn the mistakes that the failed ones made. There was a time, just a few years ago, when one could enter into this business as an ignorant fleet owner and be successful in spite of their ignorance. The bumps and bruises and bad decisions of the learning curve didn't sink the business outright, and one could generally recover in time, because there was always plenty of freight for the recovery. But that was when the demand far outweighed the supply of trucks. That's not the case any more, and every decision becomes critical where the bumps and bruises of the learning curve can be fatal.
The only way to get around that is to enter into the business with as little risk as possible. At the top of the Do-Not-Risk List is tying your house to the truck. Next on the list is to have the smallest truck payment possible.
No amount of research will change the simple fact that you are getting into this business on the roll of the dice. If it were easy and enough research could make it a sure bet, then 70-80% of new fleet owners wouldn't be losing their shirts. Never gamble what you cannot afford to lose.
Like I said earlier, there are certain stereotypes in this business that we can see and recognize. And you're one of them. There's nothing inherently wrong in being a stereotype, as we all fit into one or another. The problem is, the stereotype you fall into is one that stereotypically fails. The odds of a fleet owner succeeding in this business is about 1 in 5, or about 20%. That's a fact. And those are people who know what they're doing. Coming into this with no real experience and with deluded expectations reduces your odds to just about the same as throwing snake eyes: 1 in 36, or about 2.78%. I'm not kidding.
You've got a shot at this if you already have a really good income and you're gonna try the expediting thing with your 'laying around' mad money and it's not that big a deal if you lose it. But if you expect things to work out like they do on paper, your chances drop dramatically to that roll of the dice odds. And if you put your house on the line to do it, you've got no shot at all. None. You're chances of succeeding with your house tied to this while not exactly zero, is about the same as rolling snake eyes twice in a row, which is 1-in-1296, or 0.0772%
Knowing all this, knowing all the advice that you have been given here, and choosing to ignore it, is the clearest indication of bad decision making that I know of, and if you power through and are determined to do it anyway, then your chances of success is throwing snake eyes three times in a row, which ain't good.
markwilson
Seasoned Expediter
ok. thanks for all the good insight.
i think, after talking to our partner, that we have decided to buy new freightliner 8-class. that way we won't have repair issues. we are going to use a couple of my buddies to drive the truck. they are going to school now and really want to get involved in the industry. we will have them go to panther and get oriented.
we are going to use our house as collateral, despite the good points made above. we feel that getting the lower rate is worth the risk, because we have personal assets that exceed the cost of the truck.
how much is a new truck? i have heard about 180,000 is a ballpark figure.
as far as the operations of the fleet, i will be managing this solo. i feel that i will be able to do it, because the truck will be new and there will be no problems with it. i will learn from the drivers when there are issues. also, i can send questions on this online forum and people here seem like they can answer everything.
my friend has assured me that his buddy's paperwork is solid. he was about to go bankrupt last year but now everything seems to be in good working order again.
thanks everyone for your comments. it was great to learn from those who are already in the industry.
i think, after talking to our partner, that we have decided to buy new freightliner 8-class. that way we won't have repair issues. we are going to use a couple of my buddies to drive the truck. they are going to school now and really want to get involved in the industry. we will have them go to panther and get oriented.
we are going to use our house as collateral, despite the good points made above. we feel that getting the lower rate is worth the risk, because we have personal assets that exceed the cost of the truck.
how much is a new truck? i have heard about 180,000 is a ballpark figure.
as far as the operations of the fleet, i will be managing this solo. i feel that i will be able to do it, because the truck will be new and there will be no problems with it. i will learn from the drivers when there are issues. also, i can send questions on this online forum and people here seem like they can answer everything.
my friend has assured me that his buddy's paperwork is solid. he was about to go bankrupt last year but now everything seems to be in good working order again.
thanks everyone for your comments. it was great to learn from those who are already in the industry.
Oh boy - hope you'll at least take one piece of advice, and learn to drive the truck [plus get licensed for it], because I can almost guarantee that at some point, you will need to.
And I hope you'll keep posting on what you learn on this new adventure - good luck! [You'll need it, lol]
And I hope you'll keep posting on what you learn on this new adventure - good luck! [You'll need it, lol]
You will get a very quick lesson in how many repair issues new trucks can have .
FREIGHTLINER BUSINESS CLASS M2 Problems | FREIGHTLINER BUSINESS CLASS M2 Recalls & Defects
2009 FREIGHTLINER CASCADIA Recalls, Defects, Problems & Troubleshooting
FREIGHTLINER Recalls & Defects | FREIGHTLINER Problems & Service Bulletins
The repairs are just one pitfall - the brand new, unrelated driving team is where I think it's gonna be a wild ride.
Still, I hope it goes well....
PS Repairs are why I have so much free time yesterday & today, sigh. Just a coolant hose, but spent 7 hrs yesterday waiting, they didn't even look at it! Back at 0700 today, hoping to be out soon.
PPS Mark: you do know, if repairs take overnight, or several nights, you will need to put the drivers in a motel, right? I was able to stay in the truck, but sometimes, that doesn't happen. Downtime really really sucks!
Still, I hope it goes well....
PS Repairs are why I have so much free time yesterday & today, sigh. Just a coolant hose, but spent 7 hrs yesterday waiting, they didn't even look at it! Back at 0700 today, hoping to be out soon.
PPS Mark: you do know, if repairs take overnight, or several nights, you will need to put the drivers in a motel, right? I was able to stay in the truck, but sometimes, that doesn't happen. Downtime really really sucks!
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
Dave,does it just seem like we gave advice to a guy on a suicide path to destruction.Hope his payment is low enough he can make it with excess beer money,as he might end up homeless.If he gets any drivers like Ive had in the passed.he'll be living on the streets in no time
Trading the house for a truck sleeper isn't too common these days. Might have to order the shore power combo as he won't have a license to drive it anywhere. Might be able to set it up cozy at the day job.
nightcreacher
Veteran Expediter
maybe a Prevost pulling a 20foot car trailer and then he could do a couple sprinter loads at a time
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
You know what, I think this is nothing more then an effort to yank the chains here...this is all BS.....