Squalid conditions for wounded vets

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
I'm just curious how you all feel about the most recent scandel this administration is suffereing through.We all talk about supporting the troops,and here we have third world living conditions for the most needy,and couragous of all our service people.I know,it's probably Clintons fault,or Carters,(come on Greg,give me 3 pages on this)but don't you think someone might have noticed that these are our wounded soldiers,deserving of better then cockroach and filth infested living quarters?I'm sure it's more left wing rhetoric,with the press making alot out of nothing,but supporting troops takes more then lip service.Somebody dropped the ball.With two major players either fired or resigned,it's seems to little to late(once again).No one really cares,or is it ignorance?Or a blind eye turned toward spinning another agenda?(once again).We should be ashamed.
Come on you Viet Nam vets out there,and holy rollers who have been so ashamed of the left and their reponse to this war,step up and voice your outrage!!I'm listening,it seems a little quiet out there.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
They deserve decent conditions once they are back and they moreso deserve support and backing when they are over there. Are you also going to contact Nancy and Hilary and the gang and tell them to get behind them 100%? Personally, I'd like to airlift them, Murtha, Kerry, McCain and the rest that don't deserve to walk on protected ground over for a tour. They are just as big a problem as poor conditions at home and ever so deserving of just such a paid vacation.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
Actually I can't say it is Clinton's fault, it has been a problem since the 60's so I would blame Johnson and of course carter :*

Let's be honest about this, Yes heads should roll, even deeper than what has so far taken place. republican or Democrat, don't make a difference - GET RID OF THEM.

But with that said, here is a PERFECT example of something that crosses party lines and the negilience is not an administration thing but a senate thing. The senate is in real control of the military when it comes to matters like this, I mean the oversight committee is there to see these matters are taken care of, and the senate's version has the power.

Regaurdless what you think TallCal, there is one person to blame, Carl Levin (d)Michigan.

Why?

Because as a senior member of the senate and a person who has chaired the Senate Committee on Armed Services more than anyone else except John Warner (they have equally been the chair), I know he knew about this problem, just like he knew about the problems at Allen Park VA and did nothing. He should have been viligent about the issues that the people face at the VA and other issues.

FYI - The chairs of the committee have been;
* Chan Gurney (R-SD) 1947-1949
* Millard E. Tydings (D-MD) 1949-1951
* Richard B. Russell, Jr. (D-GA) 1951-1953
* Leverett Saltonstall (R-MA) 1953-1955
* Richard B. Russell, Jr. (D-GA) 1955-1969
* John C. Stennis (D-MS) 1969-1981
* John Tower (R-TX) 1981-1985
* Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) 1985-1987
* Sam Nunn (D-GA) 1987-1995
* Strom Thurmond (R-SC) 1995-1999
* John Warner (R-VA) 1999-2001
* Carl Levin (D-MI) 2001
* John Warner (R-VA) 2001
* Carl Levin (D-MI) 2001-2003
* John Warner (R-VA) 2003-2007
* Carl Levin (D-MI) 2007-

To put a party spin on this, the Dems had control of the commitee for 41 out of the 60 years and this says a lot.

Oh it ain't 3 pages but should get you going.
 

Bob and Hooligan

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
THANK GOD!

For a minute there I thought maybe the Republicans had actually made a mistake!
Dubya was right. It would be easier if this were a dictatorship. As long as he was the dictator.

Road Hooligan
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
You know the absolute sad thing is that people make this into a party thing, W against Billy or Hillary against the US - what lies in the balance is the fact that many of these career politicians (both Repbulican and Democrat alike) are all to blame and until we start looking beyond the rhetoric of the party leadership and the fringes nuts that control everything, nothing will change and we will continue to have a discussion of hatred or jeliousy (take your pick).

To take sides and blame one administration without examining the other sets the ones who really want to see positive change apart from the people who just follow the party line. I did compare, I do see what has happened in last 60 years and blame both sides of the isle, not just one.
 

jaminjim

Veteran Expediter
Tall if you had not been so busy burning your draft card,and the flag, along with throwing away your BRA, you would know that this has been an on going problem for at least fifty years.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
They probably could not get the funds that they needed for maintenace. A few years ago the Navy relieved the Captain of the aircraft carrier John F Kennedy because the ship was in such deplorable shape. Well his officers went to bat for him and publized all of the maintence funding cuts that had gone on for the 8 years of the Clinton Administration. The requests were routinely denied and the overall maintence budget was cut by 50%.

I wouldn't be suprised if this was also the case at Walter Reed and if it is the Bush administration is completely at fault.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
>They probably could not get the funds that they needed for
>maintenace. A few years ago the Navy relieved the Captain
>of the aircraft carrier John F Kennedy because the ship was
>in such deplorable shape. Well his officers went to bat for
>him and publized all of the maintence funding cuts that had
>gone on for the 8 years of the Clinton Administration. The
>requests were routinely denied and the overall maintence
>budget was cut by 50%.
>
>I wouldn't be suprised if this was also the case at Walter
>Reed and if it is the Bush administration is completely at
>fault.

Rich,
Can I ask how does funding get cut when it all has to go through the Congress.

Here is my take on this, the president proposes a budget and it gets debated on in the congress. Some things are changed and other are left alone and it gets voted on and passes most of the time. The president sets the budget but the congress controls the budget.

The issue here is military funding of on going operations, not a war or one time approval for a new Nuke. When the oversight committee convenes, there are items that can be brought up in either open or closed door meetings and one is the funding of different programs that effect the vets. The chairman and his staff (respectfully house and senate versions) has the power to go to congress during the budget debate and say “we need $140 million more to fund X program to clean up and maintain the VA hospitals†- it is all politics. Then there is usual debate and cr*p and most of the time it is taken care of. In this case all VA line budget items that are asked for the committee sits down and goes through that part of the over all government budget.

BUT.....

The issue of ear marks and campaign BS for the elimination of said ear marks has its serious downside; amending a bill to fund something that a senator (in the case of the arm Services Committee senator) deems a needed thing can be attached to a bill without difficulties. But if the ear marks are restricted or eliminated, then either something like the funding of a clean up project will have to be created as a new bill or be added to the budget and voted on as a budget item.

I trully feel that the problems are deeper than what we have been hearing about. The resignation is not a big deal, someone fell o thier sword but I think that in order to solve the problem, a serious outcry from the public is needed and the committee members should hear from their consituents.
 

terryandrene

Veteran Expediter
Safety & Compliance
US Coast Guard
The conditions facing the soldiers, sailors and airmen undergoing treatment at Walter Reed, Bethesda and any other military hospital is the fault of the military and the military mentality, not necessarily the remainder of the Executive Branch nor the Congress.

The members of our military have been asked to do so much for so little for so many years that it has become part of the fabric of military mentality to shut up and endure...sad but true. Consider the young corporal who spends the best part of a year living in the 110 deg heat of the desert, eating nothing but MRE's, and sleeping under an armored personnel carrier until the day he loses his leg to an IED. He spends the next three months in numerous medical facilities until he's ready for out-patient treatment at Walter Reed.

He's assigned a room at building 18 where he'll stay during the therapy he requires. When he complains to the sergeant about the hole in the wall, the leaky radiator or the cockroach parade, he's reminded of how good he has it compared to the rest of his unit that is still in the desert. The corporal sucks it in and gets on with his life, however miserable that may be. The Sgt makes a note of the conditions in the room, and adds the required repairs to his discrepancy list. The next morning the Sgt reports to the 1st Lieutenant that he has everything under control and the needed repairs are coming along nicely and within budget. The shavetail Lt is now eager to report to the Captain during the weekly barracks inspection that all the observed discrepancies are on the list and are being taken care of. The Captain, of course, tells the Colonel that the troops are as happy as can be expected 'cause they each have their own room and get three squares a day at the hospital cafeteria.

Everyone in the chain-of-command is pleased because the Sergeant, Lt, Capt and Col are taking care of the troops. The LGen that was just fired never asked for a budget increase to raze and rebuild the transient quarters of bldg 18 because he trusted in the judgement of his Colonels who has received assurances from his subordinates, etc...

Eventually, I suspect one of those wounded soldiers, or a member of his family went to the press and thus ended the career of a couple of Generals. The remainder of the Chain-of Command eventually got their share of blame, maybe.

The bottom line is each of our five branches of the military have endured sub-standard pay, housing and working conditions since the beginning of time. Our future military will continue to endure because that is the mentality instilled upon them from the day the enter their first day of training, enlisted or commisioned.

The President, Rep or Dem; the Congress, Rep or Dem will continue to propose and enact, respectively, the military budget and the military will continue to stand tall and do more with less, because all through the chain-of-command they assure their leadership that they can, and will, do more for less.
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
That's a good description of the Army just being the Army. It was that way during my tour in the late '60s and early '70s and evidently not much has changed. However, those of us who watched Fox News Sunday this morning were reminded that Walter Reed Hospital is in the process of being phased out of business. With this in mind, the recent maintenance funding for Bldg. 18 probably got allocated to re-decorate some generals' offices. Fortunately, this situation was exposed in the press so a couple of senior officers get sacrificed and hopefully the place will be brought up to decent standards. Do you think the Washington Post will monitor the progress of all the upgrades?
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
Terry, that is one of the best posts I've ever read here - I hope you will send a copy to every politician involved, and newspapers, too - it needs to be heard, by those who have the power to change it.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Gregg The way it works is that the Hospital submits a budget to the DOD budget committe. Assume it gets approved. Then it gets added into the whole DOD budget which is what the administration and congress approves. The administration does not examin every line item as this would take years. Now the DOD budget gets approved then someone else's program decides they need more then what they asked for. They plead their case within the confines of the DOD and win and the money that they want gets taken from lower priority issues such as hospital maintenance. It goes on every day,politics exist in the DOD just like everywhere.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
This story was broken by two print reporters and one very wounded ABC news anchor who has been dragged through the mud by some on this forum.Free speech advocates you call yourselves(joke).
How many photo op's has W done at Walter Reed in the last 4 years? HOW MANY!!!Did he just overlook what he saw?
I agree with Cherri that Terry's comments were very striking and should indeed be passed along to those who have ignored this situation for too long.Somebody called me a draft dodger or some BS completely off subject(climb back in your hole creep)for bringing up this subject.Vietnam was a war fought by a generation,and God knows how many Vietnam vets came back and endured filthy VA conditions,lack of decent medical treatment,and ignored about Agent Orange exposure.
I'm proud of my committment to peace,and he can stick it.
Once again,this administration has committed 1.5 billion a week to fight this seemingly endless skirmish,but has not found a few hundred million to look after the souls who they have asked to sacifice.Perhaps if his daughters were coming home missing limbs,or frontal lobes the situation might change.
Maybe W should have Ann Coulter put together the right words expressing the feelings of the families of the solders being asked to endure the living conditions of their loved ones.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
TallCal I don't agree with your views very often but this time you are right on the money. Not only the President but all members of congess should be called on to give an accounting of this mess. We should all badger our Reps for answers.

Ex US Army Grunt
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It is laughable to see some so quick to overlook a huge part of the issue just to blame Bush for something else. I'm sure it's all his fault though. I'm sure when Clinton was visiting everything was in perfect repair. I'm sure it all deteriorated and fell apart the day Clinton left office. I'm sure neither Hilary or Obama nor any of the other senators have ever set foot in the door to make the observations Bush should have made according to our blamers. I'm equally sure that it got cleaned and policed just as thoroughly prior to any of the senators visiting. I'm sure someone will buy my bridge next week and my Arizona ocean view property the following week.

Does Bush bear some responsibility and some blame? Certainly. The same amount as Clinton, Bush, Carter etc. before him. To come in and bring this up as a fault of Bush only is ridiculous and blows much of the credibility it could have had. Greg correctly pointed out it's a long term problem that has festered and grown over several decades, the majority of which were in democratic control. Let's correctly say there's a problem without incorrectly blaming Bush for more than his very small share.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
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Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Tallcall,

“This story was broken by two print reporters and one very wounded ABC news anchor who has been dragged through the mud by some on this forum.Free speech advocates you call yourselves(joke).â€

As for the ABC anchor “who has been dragged through the mudâ€, I feel that he, like many before him are the scourge of the country and hold every one of them be it a ‘right wing reporter’ or the idiots at MSNBC in contempt for putting their job, their credo and their principles before the very country that allows them to have the freedoms to say and do what ever they want to say or do.

In the case of Bob Wooduff, it is occupational hazard and just too d*mn bad. He was not over there to protect our country or fight along side the soldiers; he was there to find more bad things about our troops and their mission. We do not hear a word about the soldiers that were injured, or did I miss that on page 27 of the NYT? I really think that ABC went overboard with the special on TV, the treatment that he and his wife have received and I really think that he should pay the tax payers back for the care he received over and above what should have been given. But I also feel that the entire embedded concept is a failure and there are no rights that say these people need to be there and it is a burden on the military, simply because of the one sided, skewed reporting that has been taking place. We have in this country made heroes out of these people over the real heroes who are there to do a real hard job.

Tallcal, with all due respect, learn about what are media is doing to this country and how there are no real freedoms when it comes down to politics of hate. I am an advocate of free speech but I am not in anyway an advocate for anything less than unabridged free speech which is what we do not have in this country.
 

tallcal101

Veteran Expediter
Excuse me Leo,but the reason Walter Reed recovery and rehap wing is full is becasue W lied and fabricated reasons for a war that was 100% not needed.A country goes to war because it has to,not because it wants to.The wards are full as a direct result of W.He is responsible for putting these young people in the situation they find themselves in.He should have made sure the wounded would be coming back to a Veterins Administration that was prerpared for the severly wounded.It's no secret it was in disrepair before the war,he just ignored it and filled the rat holes again.It's just another part of the the "Mission Accomplished"attitude.Hell,we won't need Walter Reed,my war will be quick and clean.
Leo,I respect your opinion,but at times I really think you can't see the forest through the trees.
The man has had 6 years to get it right,and this is just another chapter in the long saga called WRONG.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Cal,

Bush, 99% of the legislature, and much of the world believed the intelligence reports that were the basis of the attack. That wasn't the topic of conversation. As to this topic, did you notice that my posts placed blame on Bush as well as many others equally to blame while your post never acknowledges anyone else could be culpable? That is the usual liberal position on things of this nature, focus not on the problem and causes but on the desired scapegoat.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA Life Member 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5508, 5509, 5641
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

letzrockexpress

Veteran Expediter
Which problems are the republicans focusing on? They let one of their own scapegoats take the fall for Dik Cheney. He was convicted just today....The only problem they are focusing on right now is how the hell to get out of Iraq without making it look like it was their idea....
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
"They let one of their own scapegoats take the fall for Dik Cheney. He was convicted just today"

OK? I guess that the problem is the entire case was skewed right from the begining. It is apparent that the government didn't really go after the people who actualy cause the problems but ended up with getting someone lying, really good for the time and the money spent (sounds like I am a White Water critic). regaurdless, I think he deserves what he gets.

Remember that there are serious questions of the authority that was needed to send Wilson overseas on the quest, seeing that this came not from the WH but rather from the CIA. Also remember that there was nothing comprimised, according to the CIA when Plames name appeared, she was no longer an opertive with profolio but rather a desk jockey.

To put it in perspective with the bigger picture, this has happened in every administration.
 
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