Sprinter options

[WestSide]

Cargo space is 128.5".

By my accounting, that's two skids plus a narrow bunk, or one that lifts out of the way in some manner. Bulkhead cuts that space further.

 

[greg334]

Wow, what a small van.

 

[xiggi]

I have only met two people doing expedite that drive the 144's they both regretted having that small of one.

 

[ErieBigDawg]

I have only met two people doing expedite that drive the 144's they both regretted having that small of one.

Then I look forward to being number 3!

Dave

 

[golfournut]

Will it take 3 full skids? How big cargo space?

I just priced today a 2011 built with cargo, premium, contractor and suspension 1 pkgs, sliding door bulkhead w/ flip down passenger seat (fedex pkg) 170 wb extended 4 skids, rear step bumper, insulated cab, list w/ delivery 46360.00. Out the door 42500.00
Freightliner, Baltimore
Drawback, takes 120 to 160 days for delivery. Seems the Germans have a sweet work ethic. Work 3 months, shut down for a month. So depending on where that 1 month shut down cycle is in regards to when you place you order, determines the delivery time. They also have 4% financing available if you want it.
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[chefdennis]

Wow, 128 inches of cargo flood....thats small....nothing like limiting your income by limiting your options as to what you can haul....

 

[Dreamer]

"Normal" van capacity, but able to stand up? But... there's that Sprinter price....


Dale

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[ErieBigDawg]

Wow, 128 inches of cargo flood....thats small....nothing like limiting your income by limiting your options as to what you can haul....

From what I have been reading...MOST Sprinter loads are 2 and SOMETIMES 3 skids. I can do three if turned sideways.(48x40")

Don't see how the size is limiting possible earnings.

Dave

 

[xiggi]

From what I have been reading...MOST Sprinter loads are 2 and SOMETIMES 3 skids. I can do three if turned sideways.(48x40")

Don't see how the size is limiting possible earnings.

Dave

Sometimes size does matter. In the longest sprinters you can haul 4 skids. Depending on who you work for having the option for a forth skid can earn you an extra thousand or Two or Three a month. A big part of being successful out here is comfort, the more room you have the more comfortable you will be. I do not want to sound rude but it makes no sense to me to invest in a sprinter and not pay a little extra for a 170, with any good company it will pay for itself in very short term maybe the first month and then becomes extra profit.

 

[Turtle]

Wow, 128 inches of cargo flood....thats small....nothing like limiting your income by limiting your options as to what you can haul....

Oh, I dunno. I've got 108 inches of cargo space and I seem to do OK. That you can haul three or four skids will get you significantly more loads, or even marginally more loads, and therefore more revenue, is largely a fallacy and an illusory corollary. The illusory corollary is often reinforced by those who can haul three skids, and therefor haul three skids on occasion, and make the correlation that if they could not haul three skids, and could only haul two, they would not have hauled anything at all. They fail to come to any conclusion at all when they haul only a single skid.

Two loads are available. One is two skids, the other is three skids. Two vans (or Sprinters) are available, one can haul two skids, the other can haul three skids. The driver of the three-skid van gets the three skids, and thinks he's getting more loads because he can haul more skids, and thinks those who can only haul two skids haul fewer loads. Yet both got loads, both paying the same rate (usually).

More often, there are, say, 12 loads available, two of them are three skid loads, and the other 10 are one and two skid loads, and the loads are given to the appropriate trucks, some of them with two skids going onto three-skid vans, with the three skid vans getting no more loads than anyone else. Those two van drivers who can haul three skids see their van loaded with three skids and think they got loaded with any load at all because they can haul three skids.

If you can haul three skids and someone is bidding on freight for your truck, they will tend to bid on three skid loads, so you end up running a lot of three skid loads, and you think you're getting more loads because you can haul three skids. That's the fallacy, and talking with dispatchers and those who book loads, have confirmed it. If you could only haul two skids, those bidding on loads for your truck would be bidding on two skid loads, instead, and you'd still get just as many loads.

I can haul two skids, and there have been times where I got loaded with taller freight because I can haul it. But that doesn't necessarily mean that I would have otherwise sat idle if I could not have hauled the taller freight. I simply hauled Load A instead of Load B.

Recruiters and common sense tells you that the ability to haul more freight is better, and that's true to a degree, but the real world reality is that the ability to haul three skids versus two skids, or freight taller than 40 inches, is not that big of a variable over the course of a year. You might get at most 4-6 loads per year where you would have otherwise not gotten any load at all. For my money, the ability to sleep comfortably unencumbered while loaded more than offsets the additional handful of loads I might get if I were to not have a permanent bunk.

As the Ziggster noted, a big part of being successful out here is comfort, the more room you have the more comfortable you will be. Putting aside being able to haul an extra skid, if you aren't comfortable out here in your van, you won't want to spend any time in it, certainly not the kind of time required to be successful, and will tend to go home more often than you should, or even begin to turn down loads which would require you to sleep while loaded. Even if a longer van offered zero additional loads that you would have otherwise not gotten, it will allow you to be more comfortable and therefore to stay out longer and be better rested while you are out here, and thus will enable you to haul more loads which will more than make up the cost difference between and short and long van.

 

[xiggi]

Turtle I think the bigger the company the more small loads are available because of the customer base. By and large they are not the better paying companies per load. Just the opposite from you dispatchers and company owners have told me there is always more loads available for 3 skid capable vans and taller ones. That has also proved to be my reality. I also see just the the opposite of you when it comes to illusions. I believe people who can haul three skids see much more of whats out there than those who can haul two. When someone can only haul two most of them have no idea how many larger loads there are. The majority are one or two yes but anyone can easily average a three skid load a week. Might be none one week and several the next.

I agree with your bottom line the biggest issue is comfort.

 

[Turtle]

Turtle I think the bigger the company the more small loads are available because of the customer base. By and large they are not the better paying companies per load. Just the opposite from you dispatchers and company owners have told me there is always more loads available for 3 skid capable vans and taller ones. That has also proved to be my reality. I also see just the the opposite of you when it comes to illusions. I believe people who can haul three skids see much more of whats out there than those who can haul two. When someone can only haul two most of them have no idea how many larger loads there are. The majority are one or two yes but anyone can easily average a three skid load a week. Might be none one week and several the next.

I agree with your bottom line the biggest issue is comfort.

It all depends. Larger carriers may or may not have more smaller loads. Smaller carriers either have a near-dedicated customer base, or are largely bid board based. Those who are bid board based will tend to bid on what will fit their trucks, and if most of their trucks are 3 or 4 skid Sprinters, that's what they will bid on, figuring the 1 and 2 skid loads can be covered by everyone else (and are, because the larger carriers scoop them up for the Fords and Chevys).

When you say, "The majority are one or two yes but anyone can easily average a three skid load a week," but that three skid load may or may not be in place of no load at all, where unless you can haul three skids, you'd average one load less per week. That's like saying if you can haul three or four skids, then you can haul as many as 50 additional loads per year over someone who can only haul two skids. That's a lot. Enough to be labeled a fallacy, actually. More likely, it's an extra 4 or 5 loads per year. Sure, some individuals with specific carriers may actually haul more loads because they can haul more skids, but overall, in the scope of the industry at large, the numbers of those are rather small, as the total load counts and total miles tend to be scalable.

You can't come to any kind of real conclusion using a small sample base, but compare your annual load counts with someone who can haul only two skids. I have, and rarely see much of a difference other than the expected statistical variations based on the individual and where they've been and spend most of their time. Carriers track load counts for each truck's capacity (or should), since most book and cover loads on that basis, and know whether or not they can use more 3 and 4 skid capacity vehicles, or if 2 skid capacity is enough.

When you look at the load boards to see what freight is being shipped, clearly the vast majority of expedited freight is 1-2 skids, or more than 4 skids, with 3 & 4 skids loads being rare in comparison. The fact that someone who can haul 3 or 4 skids sees a lot of 3 and 4 skid loads doesn't mean they are hauling freight instead of sitting still.

So far, and it looks like that'll be it, I've done 161 loads this year, and that's on 308 available days (44 weeks), with 57 days OOS and unavailable. I just can't imagine that if I could haul 3 or 4 skids that my load count or corresponding miles revenue) would be anywhere near 210 (4.77 loads per week) for the year. It might be as high as 170, but I think that's about it.

 

[xiggi]

Load count in reality means nothing, it is loaded miles that determines your pay for the year. If your with a company that does not limit a solo's miles and uses bid boards for a percentage of the loads the options for three skids are not only because they tend to bid on those. It is because there is less competition on loads with more skids. They can bid a higher amount and if your contract is right because of that earn the van more. I have sat right next to a two skid vehicle many times and got loads since they could not haul that extra foot. If you get one or two extra 12 or 1500 mile loads a month that is a big difference in the bottom line. I stand by my deduction and I do not think the average driver and the word average is important will make more with a three skid vehicle over a two skid one. The company your with does play into that equation.

 

[golfournut]

So if the average load is 2 and sometimes 3 for a sprinter, is the extended model necessary for 4 skid set up or for adding some sort of sleeper?

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[golfournut]

You all sure got my head spinning about which van! lol
So what would be the "ULTIMATE" van for comfort and revenue producing?
Thanks and Happy New Year
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[OntarioVanMan]

Considering my carrier now..I'd go with no less then 135" of cargo space...a lot of them auto bins are 48 x 45....

Turtle is correct in 1 aspect...in this biz you can't see what is or could have been...maybe there is an illusion, maybe not, but 3 in my mind makes me comfortable...and that is what it is all about...
Personally I would not make 4 skids available..then you are getting into over weight discussions with dispatch...There is a limit ya know..we are a cargo van afterall...

 

[OntarioVanMan]

You all sure got my head spinning about which van! lol
So what would be the "ULTIMATE" van for comfort and revenue producing?
Thanks and Happy New Year
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We could turn you head inside out and back again...but of course the ultimate decision is yours to make...prioritize. In my experience..Height matters....more loads have been higher then longer..there are opportunities at times to double stack as well...many times got to a shipper when 3 skids were called for and there was only 2 ready..or they could be stacked and saved me room for my fold up bunk to be used...

 

[WestSide]

I stand by my deduction and I do not think the average driver and the word average is important will make more with a three skid vehicle over a two skid one.

One assumes xiggi mis-spoke and meant he DOES think larger skid capacity is more profitable. For pure gross revenue, bigger is surely always better. How much better is up for debate, and your mileage may vary, literally. A minimal loss in fuel mileage in a larger unit may offset a minimal gain in load opportunity. Likewise, the gain in comfort may offset the pain in urban parking opportunity.

If 'ultimate' means bigger, it is also heavier. I've seen some sketchy weight claims, including a 170 ext advertised as carrying the requisite ton of cargo, yet it has a deluxe bunk setup with all the whistles, including generator and roof air. Your outfitted van's cargo capacity will also vary, in terms of true scaled weight.

 

[Turtle]

Load count in reality means nothing, it is loaded miles that determines your pay for the year.

Well, gee, in reality loaded miles means nothing, either, it's revenue that determines your pay for the year, and not only that, it's NET revenue that matters, not gross revenue. It's all about balancing the CPM with the revenue per mile, and seeing what you have left over at the end. So we're going to dismiss the more loads versus less loads discussion, because that apparently didn't go where you wanted it to, and we're going to use different semantics to talk about the same thing.

Someone comes on here and asks which carrier gives the most miles, or the most loads, and some predicable jackwagon will immediately jump on it and say that it's not about miles or loads, it's about revenue. Well you know what, these are all just tinkerbell semantics for the same thing, so when someone talks about miles, or loads, or loaded miles, or revenue, they all mean the same thing, they're all talking about making money. It doesn't matter if you are on a percentage or a flat rate, more miles equal more revenue for most people, and anyone with a scintilla of reasoning ability can grasp that one simple fact. And all the "yeah, but"'s that people can throw out there won't change it one bit. There are exceptions to every rule and there are abnormal circumstances which affect things, but for the overwhelming vast majority of people in this industry, more miles and/or more loads equals more revenue.

If your with a company that does not.....

Yes, yes, yes, there are ifs as well as butts, but on the whole, on the average, not taking into account what might be and what could be in certain individual situations, this industry is going to pay out x-number of cents per loaded mile to a cargo van or Sprinter that is leased on to a carrier. It doesn't matter how many skids you can haul, a cargo van or a Sprinter is going to get paid x-number of cents per mile on the average. You can think that small carriers who use big boards have some kind of competitive advantage in bidding for 3 and 4 skid loads, but they do not. If you look at the loads and what the loads are being bid for, on the average the 3 and 4 skid loads go for just about the same thing as the 1 and 2 skid loads go for. There are exceptions, yes, I know, I've noted that, but on the average there's not any significant difference in the bids.

If you have a 3 or 4 skid Sprinter and you think it's all that and a bag o' chips, and you want to justify that decision by extolling the virtues of having one, great. The problem I have is when people are dealing with stone cold fallacies and illusory corollaries and go off the deep end because they don't even want to take an unimpassioned look at things, and they start extolling nearly to the point of, and sometimes at the point of, stating that you cannot be successful in this business if you limit your income in any way, or unless you can haul 3 or 4 skids.

But I'm almost as anal as Phil when it comes to researching this topic, and it's something I'm constantly researching and evaluating. It has to be looked at with an unimpassioned point of view, otherwise there's no point. You can't look at the things that justify a 3 or 4 skid Sprinter just because you've got one and need that ego boost. Nor can you look at just the things that justify having a 2 skid van for the same reason. You have to look at the realities, and you have to look at them without passion or prejudice.

There are simply too many 3 and 4 skid Sprinters sitting on USED car and truck lots, and too many 2 skid cargo vans on the road and making money, to think that having a 3 or 4 skid Sprinter is the decisive blow in succeeding in this business. Recruiters, common sense and even convention wisdom will tell you that the more capacity you have the better. But it's logical fallacies based on illusory corollaries that tell you that a 3 or 4 skid Sprinter is significantly better. Again, an individual driver with a particular carrier may be able to do dramatically significantly better, but that's not the norm or the average, because an individual driver with a particular carrier may do no better at all, or even worse.

For most people with most carriers, industry wide, a 3 or 4 skid Sprinter will get you perhaps 4-6 additional loads per year (not per week as asserted), and since the average expedite load is about 300 miles, you're looking at an additional 1200-1800 loaded miles per year. That's it in a nutshell. You're mileage may vary, but it won't by much.

I run a 2-skid Sprinter for a large carrier contracted at 77 cents per mile, but don't think for a minute that I run for 77 cents a mile. Don't think that I run for 77 cents a mile plus FSC, either, 'cause I don't. My YTD line haul+FSC revenue averages 96.3 cents per mile for all loaded miles. My total deadhead is 22%. When you add in additional revenues for any paid deadhead (standard and additional), bonuses and other negotiates monies, my loaded miles averages 104.9 cents per mile. And this is not on an insignificant number of loaded miles.

There are people running on percentages who make more than me, and some who make less than me. Those who run 3 and 4 skid Sprinters do not, on the average, make significantly more than I do. Some do, absolutely, and some make less, absolutely. All things being equal, my 2-skid Sprinter nets about about the same amount of money that a 3 or 4 skid Sprinter does, with the primary difference being that I can always sleep while loaded and they cannot.

If you like hauling 3 or 4 skids and you think you're making more money, well then that's great. Just don't go telling people (both newbies, and those who know better) that they can't make any money in a 2 skid van, or that a 3 or 4 skid Sprinter will make them significantly more than their 2 skid van, because it's simply not true.

There are exceptions to the rules, yeah, yeah, yeah, but there is no "your reality" versus "my reality", there is only the actual reality, and the actual reality is that everything I've stated in this thread is absolutely verifiable if you cease making assumptions based on illusory corollaries and do the research to verify it. The actual reality is that a 3 or 4 skid Sprinter had the potential to make more money than a 2 skid van, perhaps as much as 15% or 20% more under the ideal circumstances, but for most people the additional revenue generated in a 3 or 4 skid van is marginally more, at best.

One of the reasons I'm constantly checking on what is being shipped and who is hauling it, is this is an ever changing business. It has changed in many ways just in the relatively short time I've been in it. When I first got my Sprinter it was a novelty to most people, but now it's old hat and there are a lot of them out there. Enough of them that it could even be changing the overall average number of skids that are hauled on them, making 3 and 4 skid loads a higher percentage of the cargo van expedite segment of the business. But much to the chagrin of many 3 and 4 skid Sprinter owners, whether they admit it or even know it or not, that hasn't happened as of yet. If I knew (or even reasonably thought) that I could make significantly more money hauling three skids, I'd remove this permanent bunk and most of my fixed creature comforts in a heartbeat. The reality is that most expedite loads continue to be 1 or 2 skids, or more than 4 skids (that means 5 skids or more), and having the ability to haul 3 or 4 skids is not a significant factor for the vast majority of expediters. It can be for some drivers and some carriers, but by the same token for other drivers and other carriers it makes zero difference at all. It is a factor and will produce more money, but it doesn't make that much of a difference for most people, and not nearly the difference that some people try to make it out to be.

When you dole out advice it is important that it be generic advice for all or most drivers at all or most carriers, unless you specify it applies to you and your carrier or you know for sure that it applies to at least most carriers. For example, some people are fixated on the fact that some carriers limit the miles of solos, and thing they can't make any money at a carrier like that, so they recommend against signing on with such a carrier. Yet I'm with one of those carriers and my loaded miles and revenue surpass several drivers I know who run for carriers which have no such limits on solos. How can that be? I'll tell you how, it's because too many people are stuck between blinders and can't see the big picture. They think no restrictions means more miles, same as they think being able to haul more skids means more revenue.

This industry is going to pay you whatever it's going to pay you, it'll be the same it pays to everybody else, and it doesn't matter who you are, how you get paid, or what carrier you are with. The most important thing is not how many skids you can haul, or how many theoretical miles you can drive, but how well you learn the rules and play the game.


There, that ought to pіss off a sufficient number of people.


Well, crap, I just got beeped for a load. The pay is 77 cents plus 35 FSC, one piece, 3 pounds, a baggie of emergency nuts and bolts, looks like. Man I wish I could haul 3 skids right about now. <---- good example of an exception to the rule.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

Turtle..good loooong post that said pretty much nothing..

except: the repeating theme: "an exception to every rule"

Any experienced CV'er knows the variables all too well...or better...