So you have a gun in your truck?

JimmyB

Seasoned Expediter
There are many things that can be used for self protection besides a gun, Bug spray to someones eyes does a awful terrible thing to eyeballs, Mace, Pepperspray, a spray bottle with bleach, or other chemicals that stink to high heaven and disorient the attacker, Ive been on the road for almost 10 years in OTR and in some really bad areas, if you dont go in the places these punks lurk, you usually wont run into them, If someone wants to hijack your truck and theres a gun pointed at your head thru the window its better to let them have it THEN BE DEAD...Ive never wanted or needed to carry a gun anywhere but Hunting, Ive faced down some dudes and kept myself away from trouble by using my head, not a bullet.

You are correct, there are many other options for self protection. Hell I would argue that one form of self protection is Situational Awareness - If you are aware of your surrounding and react accordingly you should never end up with that "gun to your head" Not that it can't happen, you can help your odds!

As for the pepper spray / bug spray... good in theory and may help, but frankly if your met with an aggressor packing a gun...well I'm sure you've hear the saying... don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

Another point.... You have kept yourself out of many situations using your head and not bullets..... that's the best way to handle every situation. Bullets do not fix situations and guns do not fix situations - The gun is for protection when you, your family and loved ones need it.


In closing, I do respect your choice to not want or feel you don't need a gun. Please respect the rights of those who choose to carry and abide by the laws and RIGHTS this country was founded on.

Good Day.
 

itrmike

Active Expediter
Hey everyone, so I bought me a truck and I am gonna be an expediter. Read many threads on here and am semi-familiar with the business so I am pretty well prepared for what to expect. I know this thread is old and pretty well worn out, but since this is my first post and I had an opinion about it I figured its not a bad place to start. I am, and am not, a gun person. While I think they are fun and interesting and completely reasonable (and even necessary for a free society) to own, I did not grow up with guns and am not trained well in the use of them. So I have had many handguns and long guns, shotguns, assault rifles, et c, most I bought on whims, never carried (due to my admitted lack of training), and sold without ever firing. Not all but most. Luckily I live in a state where guns are for the most part commonplace and no big deal to anyone, just a tool and relatively unrestricted compared to most states. The ones I do own now are safely and legally stored in the state I am currently a resident of which is Tn, but I grew up in NY so I am all to familiar with how (illegally) restrictive some states can be when it comes to firearms. WHEN I begin driving, I would MUCH rather do it with a gun, or two, or six, in my truck, loaded and safely stowed but within easy reach, at ALL times (after training thoroughly with each weapon of course). BUT there are several states in which this would never ever be legal in, according to them, even though it is my natural right. I see a lot of mention of people having ccw permits in 2 or 3 states to try to cover only 90% of the continental 48. For what its worth, I don't have a ccw permit even for my home state of Tn, but I intend to get one. It is very easy here and the Tn ccw permit is honored in EVERY state except the few that do not honor permits from ANY other states. Therefore 1 ccw permit from Tn provides the best national coverage possible, just check the reciprocity maps and you will see that if you're interested. Basically if you are permitted in Tn, there is no need for any other permits. States like Cali, NY, Oregon, and some other new england states will never honor any ccw permit issued elsewhere, and make it very difficult even for their own residents to get one. HOWEVER, no state or federal government issues my rights to me, on the contrary I as a citizen issue my government its right to exist and govern me. Due to the fact that our governments now amount to little more than organized crime and tyranny these days, I have reverted to enjoying my natural rights given to me by the same entity that instilled a sense of right and wrong within me and that clearly was not any state or federal authority. With all that said, although I do know it is my natural right to travel freely and carry any weapon I choose concealed or openly, I don't live in fear and it isn't worth the hassles or worse that I will face if found in violation of these unconstitutional state statutes and acts prohibiting it. It has been well covered here and everywhere else already that outlawing guns only means only the outlaws will have the guns, et c, so I wont go any further into that. Although federal law, while they are not the granter of my natural rights to me, does recognize the fact that I do at least have the basic right to pass through ANY state with my firearms stowed away locked and unloaded, ammo separated, many states regularly ignore that and ILLEGALLY go ahead and arrest and prosecute law abiding citizens who are 100% in compliance with federal regulation. It's actually a PROTECTION guaranteed by the federal government, but that apparently fails to even matter in the slightest bit to some states. So in summary, I will leave my guns home (might carry one shotty but not loaded, which means possibly/probably not my first weapon I would go for if I faced an immediate and unavoidable danger, more like for recreation or all out SHTF or riot scenario in which case it would go from being carrying unloaded to loaded without a second thought no matter what state I happened to be in at the time). And as for protecting myself on the road under normal circumstances? As others have stated here common sense and awareness go a very long way, but I will also carry one german shepherd (unconcealed), a claw and/or ball peen hammer or two right within reach at all times, and a couple ice picks or long sharp screwdrivers or similar type tools and objects strategically located in the cab of my vehicle (i.e. NOT a hunting knife or stun gun or anything typically identified as a "weapon", and I certainly will not be relying on any pepper spray, wasp spray, mace, whatever - we used to spray each other for fun with those as kids - and no its not actually fun, but I sure wouldnt bet my life on anything like that). I always avoid conflict as much as reasonably is possible, and then even beyond what is reasonable, but any criminals that might make that IMpossible for me to do - regardless of whether they are armed or I am awake or asleep or driving or at rest - will be met with some very destructive forces for as long as I am able to produce them or they are no longer necessary because the threat has been neutralized. I refuse to be a victim and/or travel without being prepared to protect myself, but there are also ways to protect yourself in that worst case scenario using certain equalizers and force multipliers (heavy ball peen hammer - think about it...) which no law of any land prohibits carrying or even crossing borders with and if that occurs when the police do come regardless of the outcome they would have a very hard time finding anything I have done anything other than legal and justifiable. And even if they did I am quite confident a jury would not. Personally, I highly doubt anyone would even bother me with my dog in the truck, but if they were foolish enough to try and successful at it then thats when their day or night would most likely become quite unfortunate for them.

By the way, great website, I have found an incredible wealth of valuable knowledge and opinions here and been able to learn quite a bit about the expediting business from studying these forums so thanks to all that have contributed.
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
Hey everyone, so I bought me a truck and I am gonna be an expediter. Read many threads on here and am semi-familiar with the business so I am pretty well prepared for what to expect.

I know this thread is old and pretty well worn out, but since this is my first post and I had an opinion about it I figured its not a bad place to start.

I am, and am not, a gun person. While I think they are fun and interesting and completely reasonable (and even necessary for a free society) to own, I did not grow up with guns and am not trained well in the use of them. So I have had many handguns and long guns, shotguns, assault rifles, et c, most I bought on whims, never carried (due to my admitted lack of training), and sold without ever firing. Not all but most.

Luckily I live in a state where guns are for the most part commonplace and no big deal to anyone, just a tool and relatively unrestricted compared to most states. The ones I do own now are safely and legally stored in the state I am currently a resident of which is Tn, but I grew up in NY so I am all to familiar with how (illegally) restrictive some states can be when it comes to firearms.

WHEN I begin driving, I would MUCH rather do it with a gun, or two, or six, in my truck, loaded and safely stowed but within easy reach, at ALL times (after training thoroughly with each weapon of course). BUT there are several states in which this would never ever be legal in, according to them, even though it is my natural right.

I see a lot of mention of people having ccw permits in 2 or 3 states to try to cover only 90% of the continental 48. For what its worth, I don't have a ccw permit even for my home state of Tn, but I intend to get one. It is very easy here and the Tn ccw permit is honored in EVERY state except the few that do not honor permits from ANY other states. Therefore 1 ccw permit from Tn provides the best national coverage possible, just check the reciprocity maps and you will see that if you're interested.

Basically if you are permitted in Tn, there is no need for any other permits. States like Cali, NY, Oregon, and some other new england states will never honor any ccw permit issued elsewhere, and make it very difficult even for their own residents to get one.

HOWEVER, no state or federal government issues my rights to me, on the contrary I as a citizen issue my government its right to exist and govern me. Due to the fact that our governments now amount to little more than organized crime and tyranny these days, I have reverted to enjoying my natural rights given to me by the same entity that instilled a sense of right and wrong within me and that clearly was not any state or federal authority.

With all that said, although I do know it is my natural right to travel freely and carry any weapon I choose concealed or openly, I don't live in fear and it isn't worth the hassles or worse that I will face if found in violation of these unconstitutional state statutes and acts prohibiting it. It has been well covered here and everywhere else already that outlawing guns only means only the outlaws will have the guns, et c, so I wont go any further into that.

Although federal law, while they are not the granter of my natural rights to me, does recognize the fact that I do at least have the basic right to pass through ANY state with my firearms stowed away locked and unloaded, ammo separated, many states regularly ignore that and ILLEGALLY go ahead and arrest and prosecute law abiding citizens who are 100% in compliance with federal regulation. It's actually a PROTECTION guaranteed by the federal government, but that apparently fails to even matter in the slightest bit to some states.

So in summary, I will leave my guns home (might carry one shotty but not loaded, which means possibly/probably not my first weapon I would go for if I faced an immediate and unavoidable danger, more like for recreation or all out SHTF or riot scenario in which case it would go from being carrying unloaded to loaded without a second thought no matter what state I happened to be in at the time).

And as for protecting myself on the road under normal circumstances? As others have stated here common sense and awareness go a very long way, but I will also carry one german shepherd (unconcealed), a claw and/or ball peen hammer or two right within reach at all times, and a couple ice picks or long sharp screwdrivers or similar type tools and objects strategically located in the cab of my vehicle (i.e. NOT a hunting knife or stun gun or anything typically identified as a "weapon", and I certainly will not be relying on any pepper spray, wasp spray, mace, whatever - we used to spray each other for fun with those as kids - and no its not actually fun, but I sure wouldnt bet my life on anything like that).

I always avoid conflict as much as reasonably is possible, and then even beyond what is reasonable, but any criminals that might make that IMpossible for me to do - regardless of whether they are armed or I am awake or asleep or driving or at rest - will be met with some very destructive forces for as long as I am able to produce them or they are no longer necessary because the threat has been neutralized. I refuse to be a victim and/or travel without being prepared to protect myself, but there are also ways to protect yourself in that worst case scenario using certain equalizers and force multipliers (heavy ball peen hammer - think about it...) which no law of any land prohibits carrying or even crossing borders with and if that occurs when the police do come regardless of the outcome they would have a very hard time finding anything I have done anything other than legal and justifiable. And even if they did I am quite confident a jury would not.

Personally, I highly doubt anyone would even bother me with my dog in the truck, but if they were foolish enough to try and successful at it then thats when their day or night would most likely become quite unfortunate for them.

By the way, great website, I have found an incredible wealth of valuable knowledge and opinions here and been able to learn quite a bit about the expediting business from studying these forums so thanks to all that have contributed.​

There ... it's much easier to read now ........ don't ya think?

Any Federal gun law is always subject to state laws. Each state is soverign, or it darn well should be. And they may impose any restrictions they deem fit and acceptable by the citizens of that state. Because you presently live in Tenneessee does not give you right to bear arms in New York.

And the constitution, as so many seem to miss, only defines what the FERERAL governmet may, or may not, impose as rules and regulations.

We can argue they overstep that boundary all day long, but that is how it was designed.

I drove truck since 1969, and delivered meat into some of the worst places in the USA, I never encountered a problem. The worst "trouble" I ever has was prostitutes and gay men trying to get my attention.

Paranoia is a strange thing ..... don't be guilty of it ..... and yes, I know today is a much different world that just a few years ago.

Welcome to the OE forums, and interesting choice of threads for your first post! :p
 

Jumbuck

Seasoned Expediter
well, you're exaggerating our positions a bit, but here is the thing.

our founding fathers and those that followed them correctly believed that their role was not to create law, but to discover law. as such, they wrote the bill of rights not as the government graciously granting us liberty out of the kindness of their hearts, but as a necessary recognition of pre-existing, universal human rights. so having a firearm on your person is not just an american civil right but the right of all people everywhere, including the chinese, the north koreans, cubans, and even the english. governments that interfere with this human right are oppressive and interfering with the rights of the people.

it's a parallel of the first amendment right of free speech. you wouldn't claim that the right of free speech is only an american right because of the first amendment, would you? or that it exists elsewhere only because of largesse of government? no, it is a human rights to be enjoyed by all people everywhere, and our founding fathers were wise to document it.

the american bill of rights is a charter of negative liberties, declaring our rights to be off limits and beyond the vote of any majority. as such, the second amendment removes from government a say in who may or may not be armed. if you choose not to carry a gun, that's your free choice. if the government tells you you may not, that's tyranny.

as a free man, it is my human right to purchase any small arm and carry it as I please on public property without filling out any form or asking anyone's permission.

to put it to better than I, here's the atlanta declaration by l. neil smith:

The Atlanta Declaration, by L. Neil Smith

Here's how it begins:

"Every man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon --rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything --any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission.

"Someday to demonstrate that principle --before I'm lying on my deathbed in a hospital with green plastic tubes up my nose, before arthritis sets in and I have to do it on crutches --I intend to walk the length of Manhattan Island with a handgun openly on my hip, unmolested by any freelance or official parasite. The question is, how do I get there from here?"

It's a good speech, worthy of the read.

That was BEAUTIFUL, Man!
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Switzerland requires gun ownership, and annual training. Low crime rate AND they have never been invaded.
 

AMonger

Veteran Expediter
Switzerland requires gun ownership, and annual training. Low crime rate AND they have never been invaded.

It's a different America now. When I was in the military and got my first PT job as a guard, I had to fill out a form to have my PT work authorized. One of the questions was whether it would require me to carry a gun. Everybody told me, if you check YES, it will not be approved. The lieutenant said, "The US military is the only military in the world that's afraid of guns."

Our whole society is sissified. I expect that from Europe, being that we had to ship the Brits millions of firearms and teach them to use them in the early days of WWII. But here...

There's some pantywaist over at the other site who posted a long post about how he, she, or it "wouldn't feel comfortable" with people walking around with guns. Hope it's a she, or it's a waste of testosterone.
 

itrmike

Active Expediter
There ... it's much easier to read now ........ don't ya think?

Any Federal gun law is always subject to state laws. Each state is soverign, or it darn well should be. And they may impose any restrictions they deem fit and acceptable by the citizens of that state. Because you presently live in Tenneessee does not give you right to bear arms in New York.

And the constitution, as so many seem to miss, only defines what the FERERAL governmet may, or may not, impose as rules and regulations.

We can argue they overstep that boundary all day long, but that is how it was designed.

I drove truck since 1969, and delivered meat into some of the worst places in the USA, I never encountered a problem. The worst "trouble" I ever has was prostitutes and gay men trying to get my attention.

Paranoia is a strange thing ..... don't be guilty of it ..... and yes, I know today is a much different world that just a few years ago.

Welcome to the OE forums, and interesting choice of threads for your first post! :p

YEP, I think, much better lol. Thought about going back and doing that myself but got lazy.....and you are correct, I agree - being a resident of Tennessee does not give me the right to bear arms in NY. Being a human with unalienable rights and living in what is supposed to be a free republic gives me the right to bear arms anywhere in said republic, with very few exceptions. Also I agree that the constitution is in most regards in place to limit only what the federal government can do and not individual states as they have their own constitutions, but there is much language in the constitution and many of the founding fathers other documents relating to unalienable undeniable god-given rights to every person, that in the republic they designed and handed down to us (the Ben Franklin quote "if we can keep it" comes to mind) would never be infringed upon by any legislation, period, or so they intended. Also much language as to why, and their opinions that an armed society is necessary to remain free of tyranny because inevitably all governments will become tyrannical if simply allowed to do so, at which time revolution becomes not only an option but a duty. I am merely stating what I believe was their intentions, but I also happen to agree. All such legislation was deemed illegal and I believe that was the point of the bill of rights, in essence a guarantee that no state in our republic will under any circumstances have the power to deny us our natural rights that are granted to us as humans by a higher authority than ANY government. While some of these matters can be complicated, its as simple in my eyes and knowing the difference between right and wrong, and I have difficulty even understand the opinion of people who feel otherwise. However I still respect the fact that they are entitled to their opinion regardless of my understanding or agreement with it or not, as long as they and their personal opinions do not attempt to deny me any of MY RIGHTS.

As for the first post, eh, I couldn't resist. Its a hot topic that I enjoy hearing opinions on and thought it was worth revisiting, especially since the laws are constantly changing regarding some of these issues. There is a national 50 state mandatory concealed carry reciprocity agreement bill already passed in the house now and looking to be voted on in the senate, but I doubt it will ever happen because that would make it too easy for nearly every person to be legal to carry concealed nearly everywhere and I do not believe the federal government wishes that or even has our best interests or liberties or safety as its highest priority. And I am not paranoid at all, made it 43 years so far and through some hairy situations without ever having or needing a gun or being attacked. But I don't see that as any reason to not have a few extra equalizers available to me if I was to encounter danger since I feel that expediting is a business where you may possibly find yourself unexpectedly in a situation in which you may be more likely to become a target. I expect to occasionally find myself in some sketchy areas whether its a load or drop point, or while I am traveling, or at rest, and I would rather be prepared and not need it then need it and not have it....

The gun restrictions in this country are a complete joke and illegal, not to mention oppressive, unenforceable, and just plain wrong on every level. And thats coming from a person that doesn't even use them, the few I own I have not laid eyes on in months and are stored away to the point where they are not really accessible to me in any kind of hurry at all, and I still sleep fine every night, same as I expect to in my truck regardless of where I am or whether or not I have a firearm. That still does not mean I em not entitled to have one if I choose as it is my right as a free man in what is supposed to be a free society. Others' fears and discomfort do not trump my right to my liberties. But I am not willing to go to prison if I have to pass through one of the handful of states my permit would not apply in and somehow wind up caught carrying, so for me, at this current time, I will tolerate this government oppression with disgust like so many others, which is a very sad state for truckers and this republic in general to find itself in even having a debate at all on this issue. Even permitting itself is wrong, as the government is not the granter of my right to defend my person or property, and has no authority to remove that right from me or give me any permission to do so, but I could make the concession to live with it if the permit process was all inclusive 50 state wide and done with the highest possible regard for the rights of the individual and the preservation of their liberty were truly the top priority as it should be. I actually feel a little shame even admitting that I am willing to tolerate that, but the fact of the matter is, I am, to a certain degree, to avoid penalties on myself, however unfair or illegal or unconstitutional they may be. And that is exactly what the powers that be prey on and use, to incrementally oppress our society inch by inch over decades, and by design.

I dont even feel I need a gun in my truck, but it is infuriating to me that any other human thinks their right to wish that I don't supersedes my right to do so if I choose (unless I happen to be on their own personal privately owned property where their wishes should be respected - another right that has effectively disappeared, but thats an entirely separate issue). I mean really, no one in their right mind is going to want to open a door with my dog on the other side of it. But for the crack/meth heads or armed thieves that are too stupid or jacked up to know better or too intent on causing harm to care, they will be met with a choice selection of everyday seemingly unthreatening tools (after all a gun is just a tool as well) wielded with extreme prejudice. Might even add a freshly sharpened hatchet to my handy tool bucket. I am in no way all the violent type and hope to never ever have any harm come to myself or do any to anyone else, but in life at times situations car arise that are just not "manageable" in which case self defense can be necessary. SO when I might be going up against a murderer with a handgun in very very VERY close, contained quarters, there are a variety of perfectly legal options with which to prepare yourself with if you think ahead about it, which is really my point. Plus the added freedom of crossing state and international borders completely worry free of any undue hassling by so-called "authority" (term used very loosely) figures. Less stress = better life in my book. Fully prepared, in ways that generate no concern at all, seems like the way to go for me. BUT I still would prefer to carry my .357 and 12g. Hell, I might even just want to go shooting in the dessert at cans or stop in a range somewhere and target shoot in my down time, but the laws preventing me from traveling freely with my weapons make the risk not worth it when passing through unfriendly states to gun owners, and that is just plain wrong, and very dangerous to our freedom, in my opinion.
 

Benzoid

Seasoned Expediter
I'm lucky I guess. I carry a gun on the job. I only go to Michigan or Ohio (99% of the time so far) and my Michigan CPL is good in Ohio as well as a bunch of other states. If I were to get a run to Illinois, New York or one of the few other states that don't take my Michigan Permit, I *may* leave it home or take it apart and lock it in a lockbox labeled "parts". Lock the ammo in another box and as long as I'm not staying in said state, it shouldn't be a problem.

That said, the chances of needing the gun are VERY VERY low, but not zero.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
I'm lucky I guess. I carry a gun on the job. I only go to Michigan or Ohio (99% of the time so far) and my Michigan CPL is good in Ohio as well as a bunch of other states. If I were to get a run to Illinois, New York or one of the few other states that don't take my Michigan Permit, I *may* leave it home or take it apart and lock it in a lockbox labeled "parts". Lock the ammo in another box and as long as I'm not staying in said state, it shouldn't be a problem.

That said, the chances of needing the gun are VERY VERY low, but not zero.

I've never had an issue come up....but it only takes one time to maybe save your life...
 

Benzoid

Seasoned Expediter
Generally speaking, you're correct. However, there are a few states, mostly in the Northeast(New York, for instance) where it's actually illegal to open carry. In California, open carry is only legal in rural areas.

Posted with my Droid EO Forum App


Michigan, it's legal to open carry anywhere (other then some gun-free zones). On a public street in any city or town it's OK. Local governments can not make any gun laws in Michigan including Ann Arbor or Detroit.
 

itrmike

Active Expediter
Tennessee, like many states I am sure, falls short when it comes to open carry. Easy as hell to get a ccw permit, but only ccw permit holders are allowed to carry openly. Makes no sense and totally defeats the purpose, but nothing is perfect I guess.

In many states including New York, they illegally prosecute and imprison law abiding citizens regularly for doing things like possessing a handgun even if locked in a box in the truck and with no ammo even present in the vehicle at all, if they find it. Basically in NY and other similar states, in some cases there is not a single safe way to cross into the state with a handgun, period, without risking your freedom. They ignore all federal protections for travelers, blatantly, and get away with ruining honest hard working peoples lives over it. There have been many documented cases of this. They will put you in prison with a mandatory sentence for possession alone, and treat it no differently than if you had a kilo of heroin locked in a box in your truck.

That will change if Zimmerman is acquitted. On that day, you'll need a gun.

Depending on where you are at the time, I wholeheartedly agree. And I am pretty sure he will be acquitted, and probably rightfully so. I don't know if he was in the right or wrong or if his version of the events are true or not, but it sure doesn't sound at this point like they have anywhere near enough real evidence to convince a jury unanimously beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not in fear and defending himself at the time the weapon was used, and thats all that should matter in the courtroom, really.
 

itrmike

Active Expediter
Can anyone please point me to where is the option to start a new thread? Or there a minimum post count required before a member can generate a new thread? I have looked and don't seem to be locating an option for that, but I have a couple questions that I have not seen answered anywhere else and do not relate to this topic. Thanks in advance...
 

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
That would be the button that says "post new thread". It's at the top of the list of threads in each forum.
 

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
Good can of wasp spray will p.o someone comming @ you...i keep 1 in the drivers door...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using EO Forums
 
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