scales in michigan, and cargo vans

[terryandrene]

hill_top

How 'bout asking your Safety Department contact for the reference upon which they made their determination, and share that info with us.

Terry

 

[greg334]

>This is a great topic and it intrigues me even though I
>seldom visit Michigan. I truely hope a Michigander soon
>visits a Michigan Highway Patrol Post or one of their
>legislators and gets a definative answer with references or
>cites that will remove any doubt as to the need for a cardo
>van to cross Michigan scales.
>
>My further research has found that Act 300 was ammended by
>Act 179 wherein it states that section 257.724(5) of the
>Motor Vehicle Act provides language as to what vehicles are
>to cross scales. Included is:
>
>A truck, truck tractor, single or in combination.
>
>So, what's a truck?
>
>257.75 “Truck†defined.
>Sec. 75.
>“Truck†means every motor vehicle designed, used, or
>maintained primarily for the transportation of property.
>
>So, what's an expediter cargo van? It's a truck.
>
>I'm inclined to believe that a Michigan Highway Patrol
>Officer can, or will, interpret this definition to include
>vans/Sprinters.
>
>Good Luck to Late For Dinner.

I just talked to my freinds at MSP. Well got to tell you the politics of this state amazes me, they can write laws that are so vauge that they can be interpeted a lot of different ways. This is one several troopers feel that are not really needed, it is more work for them.

So here is what I am told; vans and sprinters CAN be ticketed from $250 to $500 dollars for each violation passing a scale if they feel it is needed to go after them. Also they don't have to explain a thing to you why or what is the issue - if they have qoutas to fill, guess what. Carrier Enforcement (the ones within MSP that actually deal with trucks) are no longer the only ones that can pull you over on this issue.

 

[hill_top]

They made a call to MDOT and the state police. Both instructed all commercial over 10,000, must scale, nothing under, 10,000.

 

[dawggone]

Hi Everyone: Just went to the Michigan State Police web site (www.mi.gov) click on web sights,state police and then the link for specialized services. Click on Motor Carrier and Look at the Enforcement Quarterly for November 05. It appears Michigan now has changed the classification for a Commercial Vehicle to 5000 lbs. If so and if I read this right we do need to scale. I just spoke to my boss about this and he asked about logging. Interesting question. If we need to scale do we need to log. Now were really confused. I will be looking forward to your interpretation Terry and all others.

Jim

 

[greg334]

>Hi Everyone: Just went to the Michigan State Police web site
>(www.mi.gov) click on web sights,state police and then the
>link for specialized services. Click on Motor Carrier and
>Look at the Enforcement Quarterly for November 05. It
>appears Michigan now has changed the classification for a
>Commercial Vehicle to 5000 lbs. If so and if I read this
>right we do need to scale. I just spoke to my boss about
>this and he asked about logging. Interesting question. If we
>need to scale do we need to log. Now were really confused. I
>will be looking forward to your interpretation Terry and all
>others.

Now see this is why I am so frustrated, the magic number is around 6000 lbs gvw according to the weight statute and I read somewhere else that 8800 lbs gvw is the magic number in another statute and I was told three different weights by three different people. Logging is next for everyone - great, I sure get my d unit ready, no advantage for a van in Michigan.

Boycotting Michigan sounds better every hour.

 

[tom tinker]

Hi Expediters I would like some one computer savoy to forward this to Jennifer. Thought democrates were supposed to be for the working class.
Thanks Tom x(

 

[hill_top]

Well lets see... On the phone they say one thing, on the web site they say another, and the books say something else all together. So I have to ask, who is more confused, them or us????

 

[dawggone]

I agree one hundred percent!! I spoke to a lady at the Michigan Truck Safety Commission this morning and we went over it item by item and she said the law was very ambiguis but her interpretation is we do not have to scale unless we are pulling a trailer. I was referred there by the Motor Carrier division. If I was the one who got the ticket I would certainly contest it. Would be nice to know which scale it was. My money is on Jackson County. Be safe out there.

Jim

 

[greg334]

>Hi Expediters I would like some one computer savoy to
>forward this to Jennifer. Thought democrates were supposed
>to be for the working class.

Been there - Done that, she don't care about us - she wants to raise the gas tax on all of us. But I got a great response to my letter - "?"

Remember this is a person who feels that there is no need to do what other states are doing, suspend the punitive taxes on fuel.

I was given the MSP bullitin this morning that has a short discription about this issue and it clearly states that anything over 5000 lbs are now considered trucks, period. They apparently have some policy to ticket any thing that has a commerical plate (we don't have private truck plates here) for passing a weigh station which also means a great number of SUVs - including the real Hummers that are registered as class 3 comerical vehicles may get a ticket for this. Good thing?

 

[hondaking38]

wow and i thought i drove a van!!! at least thats what my title says..........

 

[Long Hauler 5T]

I started thinking about this. If we (van drivers) started to make a point of pulling into every weigh scale in michigan that is open, can you imagine the traffic jams this would cause. This will defeat the whole reason that weigh scales were brought in for in the first place ie.. the random checking (log books, mechanical, paperwork, load securing) of the larger commercial vehicles on the road. I wonder (out load) if there was lobbying for these changes by the large truck carriers in hopes it would jam up the weigh stations?

The politics of, and towards, the transportation industry never ceases to amaze me.

 

[geo]

this reminds me of something that happen in upstate new york a few years ago, in watertown new york they had ordance that side no com vch in hood, two city cop's that were a husband and wife team were
washing and cleaning there pick up truck's in yard and two city cop's pull up and side somebody has complain about your truck's in hood and if you don't move them we will have to give you a ticket for them
they asked could we have our cop car here and they said yes
they looked around and there were three suv's, 3 van's and couple of other vch that in new york state that were on truck frame's
so they when down to station got there car and came back and wrote tickets on anything that had com plate on it
and next week it change so quick
they wrote a ticket on mayor of watertown's car , city mangager,
vice mayor, us congressman or person, county and state leg,
and a new york state judge and county da

and they ask why are you writing me a ticket state of new york say you are driving a truck the law for jefferson county and watertown was changed real quick

 

[cheri1122]

I was confused even before Michigan tossed this firecracker - my cargo van, which weighs 6300 lb, is titled as a van, but plated (in Ohio) as a truck. Are they deliberately trying to write rules so difficult to understand that it means whatever they say it means - this time?
There sure is a lot of money to be confiscated from drivers breaking laws they didn't know existed.

 

[greg334]

>I was confused even before Michigan tossed this firecracker
>- my cargo van, which weighs 6300 lb, is titled as a van,
>but plated (in Ohio) as a truck. Are they deliberately
>trying to write rules so difficult to understand that it
>means whatever they say it means - this time?
> There sure is a lot of money to be confiscated from
>drivers breaking laws they didn't know existed.

Cheri
Of course this is how they write all the laws here.

The thing is that Michigan’s legislators are sooo out of touch with the people - they actually don’t do a lot to begin with, but they seem not to see that there is not much here and need to eliminate the SBT and other things that chase people and businesses away.

The thing is it used to be simple in Michigan;
You own a pick up truck you got a commercial plate, period. (Also could park almost anywhere without getting a ticket)
You own a van without rear seats (even with windows) it gets a commercial plate.
You own a van with rear seats after 1970 it gets a passenger car plate and registered as a station wagon.
You own a Blazer/Suburban/Bronco/LandRover (real SUVs) without a rear seat it gets a commercial plate.
You own a Blazer/Suburban/Bronco/LandRover (real SUVs) with a rear seat it gets a Passenger car plate.

Now it is such a mess, there are two ways that vehicles get titled, weight or price class – which no one can tell me what the h*ll the difference is, it all is too out of line for me. We have a “use†tax because a sales tax was deemed illegal, so it is not tied to our sales tax (which the sales tax is tied to the constitution and the idiots voted 10 years ago to increase it to be like other states).

 

[late for dinner]

for those who wanted to know where i got the ticket, it was on I75 just north of Toledo, oh. I went into the rest area just north of the scales and the cop followed me in there and said i shouldnt be parked where the cars were, that i should be parked out where the trucks were, now thats another problenm altogather. the court that i will be going to is the 1st district court in erie, mi. im still waiting for an answer from them as to when my court date is. ill keep you all posted. Happy Trails

 

[davebeckym]

Late for dinner, I'm wondering what kind of van you have. Could it be they are targeting high top vans and dual wheels? Many have claimed to be able to carry 4000 to 5000 lbs. This would not only be way overloaded but would put them over 10,001 GVW.

DON'T WORRY MICHIGAN.....JENNIFER HAS A PLAN!

 

[dhalltoyo]

When is that court date?

 

[late for dinner]

My court date is this Wed 4/12/2006 in Monroe. After they find against me and take all of my hard earned money I'll come back with "The rest of the story" as Paul would say. When the entire story is told everyone will understand why I'll not lay all my cards on the table at this time. Check back in later wed night.

 

[dhalltoyo]

Thanks Paul (I mean Late For Dinner). I can't wait to hear the truth.

 

[Moot]

Late For, Your first court date may be just for entering your plea. If pleading not guilty you could get antoher date to appear and have your case heard. If you can afford it I would suggest retaining a lawyer. Somtimes they can make B.S. charges disappear by talking to the judge before an offical court appearance.

I fought a ticket in Wisconsin I received as the result of an accident. My employer's policy was a day off with out pay for the accident. This was done before my court date. Before being found guilty or innocent! I hired an attorney from the county I was charged in. I had some pictures of the car involved which the lawyer showed the judge prior to the court date. The state trooper had a history of writting questionable tickets to out of state truckers. With my photos and the troopers history the judge kicked the whole thing prior to trial. I got my $120.00 back for the ticket. The lawyer cost almost $300.00. But making my employer pay me for the day off was worth it. That was over 15 years ago and just writing about it makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over. I felt better sticking it to the company than beating the ticket.

Good luck LFD and let us know of the results.