scales in michigan, and cargo vans

[late for dinner]

Last November the Michigan legislature passed a new law that requires cargo vans and most all other small trucks to enter an open scale. There is no weight limit (GVWR) This law went into effect on January 1 of this year and some Michigan State Police are giving tickets to cargo vans that do not stop for an open scale. I was given a ticket two weeks ago and the fine is $250.00 If you want to check it out look up section 257.724(5) A commercial vehicle is defined in section 257.7 and a truck is defined in section 257.75

 

[Crazynuff]

All states are different . I believe Michigan has signs saying all trucks over 8,000 lbs. must weigh . Watch signs in every state and when in doubt cross the scales . You can't be fined for crossing when you don't have to .

 

[OntarioVanMan]

A sprinters GVW is 8550 single axle The duallys around 9000gvw. So I guess sprinters would have to scale?

 

[late for dinner]

Michigan just says all trucks

 

[late for dinner]

the law as written, includes mini pickups, no can guess what the lesislature was thinking or even if they can think, but at $250.00 a pop they are going to have to run me out with a stick from now on

 

[terryandrene]

LFD:

Your comments about getting a citation for bypassing a Michigan scale have me confused because I found contradictory current Michigan Law info. I hope someone more knowlegable than me can explain the validity of either your references or mine.

If the law is as simple as you interpret it will raise an area of great concern to thousands of cargo van operators and drivers of any number of vehicles including, expediters, tradesmen in p/u trucks, taxis, limos, and busses of all sorts. Also included would be automobiles carrying salesmen with their goods, Mary Kay and Tupperware folks, and even a hearse (should the entire funeral procession follow the hearse thru the scales?)

Much of the statute says an operator of "any commercial vehicle" must comply with the law but the what's important is the definition of a commercial vehicle and that is currently contained in section 257.7a

My search of Michigan Compiled Law complete...through acts 30-32 of 2006 produced the following:

MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949


257.7a “Commercial motor vehicle†defined.

Sec. 7a.

“Commercial motor vehicle†means a motor vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; a motor vehicle, having a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds; a motor vehicle with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more including a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds; or a motor vehicle carrying hazardous material and on which is required to be posted a placard as defined and required under 49 C.F.R. parts 100 to 199. A commercial motor vehicle does not include a vehicle used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members for nonbusiness purposes.

Here is a link to the source of this info

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/

 

[dawggone]

I just finished reading this law cited in the original post and I see nothing about cargo vans. I live in Michigan and the company I work for is based in Michigan. I drive both straight trucks and cargo vans and I have never had a problem with a van. My understanding of a commercial vehicle is over 10,000 pounds gross and or haz mat. I'm going to make a point to call the motor carrier division on Monday to see what they say about this. I got stopped at a scale on 24 in tennessee a couple of weeks ago and I asked about vans because a cube van was weighing and they said anything over 10.000 pounds must scale. If I learn anything new I will certainly post it and thanks for the info.

Jim

 

[greg334]

This is typical of this d**n state.

The law was anything over 5 Tons or 10K – commercial only even though it said all trucks - has for a long long time.

Funeral Vehicles are exempt under a different law in Michigan for obvious reasons.

What state is the van registered in? this may be something else going on here. A while ago (20+ years) there was an unwritten policy to single out out of state vehicles for violations. The state decided to pursue this because mose of the time the tickets were not contested. Wonder if our Governor nudged the MSP again to start this c**p up, she has a habit of dictating.

Sorry for all the edits.

 

[Crazynuff]

I can't understand how all those RV haulers just blow by the TN scales . I bet DOT could fine 80% of them for something . Just an example , next time you see one notice if it has a battery on the trailer to activate the trailer brake if the trailer breaks loose . DOT regulations require a power source that will activate the brakes for a 10 minute period in the event of the break away . How many RV haulers do you see with no DOT number on them ?

 

[late for dinner]

Terry, check with your safety dept, Betty something, also check with Tonya S. I sent both of them all the info. Go past if you want but I will not Pay Another Toll of $250.00

 

[late for dinner]

Everybody thinks they are corrrect. If anyone wants to go to court with me and pay the fine, maybe then someone but me will understand the law!

 

[terryandrene]

LFD:

We aren't saying you are wrong and we're pleased that YOU understand the law; however, we found a current reference in Michigan law that does not support a requirement for vans to go thru scales. If our interpretation of the law is wrong, we're all ears

We van operators are all intently interested in this issue because this is the first that any of us have heard of the new law you mention. We would have our working lives altered considerably if we all have to enter the Michigan scales.

 

[late for dinner]

Sorry Terry, I didnt mean to sound nasty, its just that I'm the one with the ticket. I called the court and they said to send in 250 so I told them I wanted to see a judge. I signed the back and sent the ticket back, and am now waiting for a court date. I'll let you know what happens.

 

[terryandrene]

No offense taken. I'm sure all the van operators on the forum join me in looking forward to hearing of the outcome of your case. I'm equally certain that many Michiganders will be satisfying themselves with knowledge of the scale requirements in Michigan and will be posting their results here. Perhaps someone will have some ammunition for you to take to court.

 

[late for dinner]

Terry, Greg and the gang, I've gota go, moving into new home this weekend, then I'm going to Wapak and St Louis and haul all the van freight. Happy trails

 

[ATeam]

Perhaps it would help, late for diner, if you got off the ticket the exact name of the violation and any statute reference made on the ticket. That would give interested folks the ability to better focus their research. Who knows? Maybe the officer that wrote the ticket made a mistake. Looks like you have some folks on EO willing to dig into the statutes on this issue. Giving more information from the ticket itself would give them more to work with.

 

[late for dinner]

A TEAM, I dont have the ticket in front of me now but if you look at my first posting you can see the numbers that I think you are talking about. Im still waiting for my court date and will let everyone know the outcome.

 

[greg334]

Being rather p*ssed off at this state and this lying governor, I did a little research.

I looked at all the laws relating to this issue, and find it all convoluted as usual; as I am told time and again Commercial Vehicles with the GVW over 10K is to scale and is not a truck. But I find that everything, I mean everything is considered a commercial vehicle.

First –
257.7a “Commercial motor vehicle†defined.
Sec. 7a.
“Commercial motor vehicle†means a motor vehicle designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver; a motor vehicle, having a gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 or more pounds; a motor vehicle with a gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more including a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds; or a motor vehicle carrying hazardous material and on which is required to be posted a placard as defined and required under 49 C.F.R. parts 100 to 199. A commercial motor vehicle does not include a vehicle used exclusively to transport personal possessions or family members for nonbusiness purposes.

Then –
257.7 “Commercial vehicle†defined.
Sec. 7.
“Commercial vehicle†includes all motor vehicles used for the transportation of passengers for hire, or constructed or used for transportation of goods, wares or merchandise, and/or all motor vehicles designed and used for drawing other vehicles and not so constructed as to carry any load thereon either independently or any part of the weight of a vehicle or load so drawn.

Then –
257.79 “Vehicle†defined.
Sec. 79.
“Vehicle†means every device in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a highway, except devices exclusively moved by human power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks and except, only for the purpose of titling and registration under this act, a mobile home as defined in section 2 of the mobile home commission act, Act No. 96 of the Public Acts of 1987, being section 125.2302 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

Then –
257.75 “Truck†defined.
Sec. 75.
“Truck†means every motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

So after all of this I called the Michigan center for truck safety and got some what of an answer, convoluted at best. The lady that answered the question, Sylvia explained that first that if the vehicle does not have a box, does not have dual axles or looks like a truck, and then it may not have to stop. there was a brief discussion of what a commercial vehicle is, which includes everything and how every vehicle needs to scale. On the other hand she said that the safest thing to do is scale, if they don’t want you there they will tell you (and probably ticket you too). I asked her why hasn’t these changes with the policies of enforcement made public and she went on to explain to me that the MSP does not disclose this information to the public and because these laws are written vaguely, they can enforce them as they see fit – meaning we’re screwed in Michigan again.

I was also referred to the http://www.truckingsafety.org/ site and read through it. More confusion?!?

One last thing, in this state we are required to do a pretrip and the company we are leased to (or work for) must keep copies of every pretrip we do. DUMB. One step away from logging.

So I have come to these conclusions –
Michigan is going further down the drain because of our unconnected fulltime professional legislators.

Michigan is going to chase more people and businesses away because of stupid laws and taxes.

And anyone who votes for this governor is an (fill in the blank).

No one cares about the buses that speed 75 plus down the highways endangering all of us. Why don’t they need to scale? When was the last time you saw one pulled over? Under the above definitions buses need to drive 55 like all the other commercial vehicles over 10K.

I am ready to start a boycott Michigan campaign (anyone want to donate - just kidding), but I don’t think anyone would even plan on coming here anyway. New motto - Please Stay Away From Michigan, We Don't Need You Here.

LFD good luck in court.

 

[terryandrene]

This is a great topic and it intrigues me even though I seldom visit Michigan. I truely hope a Michigander soon visits a Michigan Highway Patrol Post or one of their legislators and gets a definative answer with references or cites that will remove any doubt as to the need for a cardo van to cross Michigan scales.

My further research has found that Act 300 was ammended by Act 179 wherein it states that section 257.724(5) of the Motor Vehicle Act provides language as to what vehicles are to cross scales. Included is:

A truck, truck tractor, single or in combination.

So, what's a truck?

257.75 “Truck†defined.
Sec. 75.
“Truck†means every motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.

So, what's an expediter cargo van? It's a truck.

I'm inclined to believe that a Michigan Highway Patrol Officer can, or will, interpret this definition to include vans/Sprinters.

Good Luck to Late For Dinner.

 

[hill_top]

I am here at my company, and the saftey dept. assured me the only vehicles that need to scale in Mich. are commercial and over 10,000. They have over 35 units under the 10,000gvw, and none of them scale and none have ever been stoped. Hope this helps out.