Russia Invades Ukraine
- Thread starter Pilgrim
- Start date
U.S. polls, at the time, showed overwhelming support for Crimea to join the Russian Federation.
en.m.wikipedia.org
2014 Crimean status referendum - Wikipedia
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
LOL ... "always" ?
Yes ... Sevastopol Naval Base.
Russia lost their claim to it when Ukraine became an independent nation after the break up of the Soviet Union (1991)
Ukraine - being the nice guys that they are - allowed Russian to continue to lease the base - since it was the main base for Russia's Black Sea Fleet. And Russia paid for doing so ... up until 2014.
Regardless, none of that justifies Russian military taking over and occupying public civil society buildings.
Hence, the UN rejected the annexation and the referendum.
And rightly so.
Look - none of this is really all that hard ... but I'm sure if you really work at it ...
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
So what ?
There was probably overwhelming support in the US South for the South to secede back in the 1850's and form and the Confederacy.
Fact is, Crimea was legally part of Ukraine's territory.
Them's the facts ... and they don't care about anyone's fee-fee's ...
What is your evidence that the election wasn’t legit? Polls before the election showed a majority of support. There was over an eighty percent participation rate in the election and won a overwhelming victory. Looks like the U.N made a political decision against will of the vast majority of the people there who voted there. That’s how a democracy works- they vote.LOL ... "always" ?
Yes ... Sevastopol Naval Base.
Russia lost their claim to it when Ukraine became an independent nation after the break up of the Soviet Union (1991)
Ukraine - being the nice guys that they are - allowed Russian to continue to lease the base - since it was the main base for Russia's Black Sea Fleet. And Russia paid for doing so ... up until 2014.
Regardless, none of that justifies Russian military taking over and occupying public civil society buildings.
Hence, the UN rejected the annexation and the referendum.
And rightly so.
Look - none of this is really all that hard ... but I'm sure if you really work at it ...
Yes, we are party. Considering the way everyone here is stepping over themselves to provide anything Zelensky wants. He’s, in essence, the President here as well.So ... basically same as "mean tweets" ... except he said it ... rather than putting it out on Twitter.
BTW - the US isn't party to those negotiations ... right ?
Or did I miss something on that ?
The problem with Biden and his lackeys is that they talk too much about the wrong things. They shouldn't be saying anything publicly about the types of aid they're sending to Ukraine or how it's going to be delivered; how stupid is that? However, they should have been talking about strong sanctions months ago when Putin started building up troops along their border. That would've given them the leverage to ease the sanctions if Putin pulled back. As it stands now they've proven to be ineffective. Yet another Biden screw-up with major consequences.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
It was a referendum held in Crimea.
The territory is - de jure - part of the nation-state of Ukraine.
De jure ... look up what that means.
So what ?
No - the UN rendered a LEGAL opinion on the validity of the referendum.
That's true as far as it goes.
But outside of Crimea nobody else in Ukraine voted in that referendum to legally give up part of Ukraine's territory.
Crimea is legally part of Ukraine.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Oh really ?
Who was the US representative at the negotiating table during the peace talks then ?
So ... basically like Putin was President here back when The Mango Mussolini was in the Oval then ?
Got it.
Thanks for clearing that up.
Anybody remember the "joint cyber-security" thing with Russia ?
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
US + NATO partners = strong deterrence ...
Unlike when the Orange Feckless Idiot was in the Oval.
Self determination.It was a referendum held in Crimea.
The territory is - de jure - part of the nation-state of Ukraine.
De jure ... look up what that means.
So what ?
No - the UN rendered a LEGAL opinion on the validity of the referendum.
That's true as far as it goes.
But outside of Crimea nobody else in Ukraine voted in that referendum to legally give up part of Ukraine's territory.
Crimea is legally part of Ukraine.
By proxy. Zelensky would have cut a deal already if we didn’t enable him with promises and false hope. It’s making more Ukrainians getting killed.Oh really ?
Who was the US representative at the negotiating table during the peace talks then ?
So ... basically like Putin was President here back when The Mango Mussolini was in the Oval then ?
Got it.
Thanks for clearing that
Anybody remember the "joint cyber-security" thing with Russia ?
But the Dems and Republicans both created the Frankenstein. Now they are dealing with the effects of their meddling that has come to a head.
The US and Britain created the Frankenstein in 1994 (when Clinton was POTUS) by signing the Budapest Memorandum with Russia - believe it or not - and they've continued to feed the beast ever since. How many people realize that France and China were also signatories to a lesser degree? Russia of course had no intention of honoring anything on the paper, and the others have done nothing but pearl-clutching and the occasional ineffective sanctions in response to Putin's repeated violations.
So there was no "meddling" in the literal sense. In return for Ukraine giving up nuclear weapons and even strategic bombers, we signed an agreement to come to their aid and provide significant defensive assistance (excluding troops on the ground), but have failed to do so in every instance of Russian aggression.
In spite of what Tucker Carlson says and the nitwit general that keeps showing up on his show claiming the Ukrainians have been "ground to bits", Kyiv hasn't been taken, they're still resisting and could extract a heavy enough price from the Russians to force reasonable surrender terms if they had the right equipment - Migs and S-300 missile systems, for instance. Right now all they've gotten from Biden is some half-assed sanctions on the Russian people that have imposed no penalties or deterrence on Putin and his military. That's where the impact has to be made.
Budapest Memorandum - Wikipedia
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
A very good reason not to have unelected foreign illegal occupiers roaming around and taking over public buildings while a territory of one nation is trying to hold a referendum in a free and fair manor ...
And you agree then that Vlad should just leave the territory of Ukraine then ... so that Ukrainians can exercise their self determination within their sovereign borders then ?
They voted around 96 percent to join Russia. Who are we to roam around in Ukraine and help take over regimes?(it’s on tape)A very good reason not to have unelected foreign illegal occupiers roaming around and taking over public buildings while a territory of one nation is trying to hold a referendum in a free and fair manor ...
And you agree then that Vlad should just leave the territory of Ukraine then ... so that Ukrainians can exercise their self determination within their sovereign borders then ?
We have been involved with regime changes there since at least 2014 and interfering in elections since at least 2004.
A very good articulate about what was said by leaders back in the early 90’s after the fall of the Soviet Union. It is in regard to NATO eastern expansion.
The gist of it: Diplomats and Nation leaders say stuff and promises not kept.
www.spiegel.de
The gist of it: Diplomats and Nation leaders say stuff and promises not kept.
NATO's Eastward Expansion: Is Vladimir Putin Right?
Vladimir Putin insists that the West cheated Russia by expanding NATO eastward following the end of the Cold War. Is there anything to his claims? The short answer: It's complicated.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Interesting analysis in the article.