Relationships

[Yesteryear]

Hmmm, Seems you need to 'read'. Think I said L I G H T E N - UP Turtle, not listen up.
As for reading the entire thread, yes, I have read the entire thread and again I will say "Lighten-up Turtle". Someone that takes a joke in a forum so personally, even when claiming it is about gender and not about them personally, has some serious self esteem issues. As for blond jokes not being demeaning to 'all women or even all blond women' they are just as demeaning to women with blond hair as men jokes are to men if a person wants to put it in the context you are putting the 'men jokes' in. The telling of a joke is trying to make others laugh, it is not meant to be demeaning to any one group. Most people can differentiate a joke from an insult, usually only people that have self issues or people that thrive on negativity seem to take offense.

 

[Turtle]

Hmmm, Seems you need to 'read'. Think I said L I G H T E N - UP Turtle, not listen up.

Sorry, my bad. Long night and little sleep. But whether it's listen up or lighten up, it's still a command for which you are not in the position to give.

As for reading the entire thread, yes, I have read the entire thread and again I will say "Lighten-up Turtle". Someone that takes a joke in a forum so personally, even when claiming it is about gender and not about them personally, has some serious self esteem issues.

Please point out where I took any of these issues personally. Fact is, I didn't take them personally, and you don't know anywhere near enough about me to make judgments about my self esteem.

As for blond jokes not being demeaning to 'all women or even all blond women' they are just as demeaning to women with blond hair as men jokes are to men if a person wants to put it in the context you are putting the 'men jokes' in.

That's a non-argument argument, highly qualified and segmented by the "if". Yes, "if" you change the conditions to something else, to something other than what is being discussed, then you can make all kinds of arguments. But even you yourself separated out "women with blond hair" versus "men jokes", which kind of makes my point. Men jokes are aimed at an entire gender, while dumb blond jokes are aimed at a very specific subset of a gender. To equate them as being the same is just nonsense.

But let's assume for a moment that all dumb blond jokes are mean-spirited and are meant do demean dumb blonds. That still leaves out non-dumb blonds and all women of another hair color. Yet all male-bashing jokes are aimed squarely at all men. Your argument falls apart without that "if" and putting it all into a very different context than they are presently.

The telling of a joke is trying to make others laugh, it is not meant to be demeaning to any one group.

Really? What's the difference between a Jew and a pizza? A pizza won't scream when you put it in the oven. Did you hear about the new Chap Stick for black people? It comes in a spray can.
Not demeaning to one group. Juuuust trying to make others laugh. Got it.

Most people can differentiate a joke from an insult, usually only people that have self issues or people that thrive on negativity seem to take offense.

Yeah, most people can tell the difference, and a lot of the male bashing jokes are funny. But my point here is that they have become so commonplace and are so ubiquitous that they have evolved into actually shaping attitudes of especially young people into believing that men are basically worthless and not to be respected, and you can see that in the way women, especially younger women, interact with men. I promise you, this has nothing to so with my own self esteem. Go back and read my initial reply and then the follow-up. These are significant issues with real consequences for everyday life and have nothing whatsoever to do with my personal self esteem.

Why do you want to make this about me?

 

[pjjjjj]

"I don't believe most of the man-bashing jokes are mean spirited or demeaning any more than the blonde jokes are."

Again, man-bashing jokes are aimed at all men, while dumb blond jokes are not aimed at all women. There's a difference, and when you stop laughing at a particular joke, go back and see if you can figure out which ones are mean spirited and demean an entire class of people and which ones are benign and harmless and have no long lasting negative effects of the way people view each other. Take a look at the jokes and replace "man" with "woman" and see if it's still funny.

You will notice that many of the jokes are in fact interchangeable and I have seen them interchanged, ie How do you save your mother-in-law from drowning? Take your foot off her head. It's a joke. It's funny. How do you save your wife from drowning? Take your foot off her head. How do you save a man from drowning? Take your foot off his head. It just depends on who is telling the joke, as to which party bears the brunt of the joke, as well as who finds it funny. There are lots of jokes about wives, mother-in-laws, blondes, and women in general too.

Some jokes are geared to stereotypical 'truths' about men, and therefore of course, if 'woman' was substituted, it wouldnt' be funny. Same for women jokes based on stereotypical 'truths' about women, they wouldn't be funny if 'man' were substituted, ie shopping jokes, talking too much jokes, spending money jokes, does my butt look fat jokes.. not that funny with 'man' substituted, becuz not based on 'truths'. Which brings me back to my original point that they're funny becuz they're based on truths. So sorry that yes, jokes can also be about men!

Seriously, what would you be thinking if there was a get-together and someone told a blonde joke, and a blonde woman started taking serious offence to those jokes? I won't speak for you, but I'd be thinking, jeez, it's just a joke it's not aimed at you specifically, and it's all in fun.. get a life.

"says a lot as to why men are easy targets and the man bashing jokes are around and why females might find them funny."

In what way does that say a lot as to why men are easy targets? All that it really says about anything is the differences between men and women, it doesn't say a thing about why men are easy targets.

It says a lot becuz men are often known to think with parts other than their brains, and that is probably where the men-are-not-the-brightest jokes come from. You can choose to see that as a 'difference'. Women can choose to see that as less than bright and make jokes about it.

"I think you are just major jealous..."

What do EYE have to do with anything? It's bad enough that you brought a quote of mine, from outside this thread, into this thread, and used it to make a point against me, thereby taking it to a personal level, rather than in discussing the ideas and topics at hand, which is a very dangerous door to open, but now you continue to make it on a personal level rather than take a look at the whole issue of man-bashing jokes and how it's gone too far.

I was only making the point that jokes are funny becuz they are based in truths and stereotypes, and I remembered that you yourself had said that very thing just recently, so I was making that point and showing that you agreed with that point.

And how do you suppose that was a point 'against you'? I don't see it as against you at all. I agree with you. You are correct. That is the point I was making.

Yesteryear said:
"Lighten up turtle!"

OK, I'll ignore the pseudo-authoritative command to "Listen up turtle!" (listen up turtle? Really? Really?) and just stick to this: why make this about me personally when I've got nothing to do with it?

'You' are making issue with men being the target of jokes.

There's a book out there and a set of t-shirts that read:
Boys are stupid - throw rocks at them.

Can you imagine the reaction if the gender was reversed on that one?

Yes, it would probably be the same as it was for this gender, ie pulled off the shelves, manufacturer boycotted, in the news, etc. Why? Becuz it's 'boys' first of all, and secondly, it's not presented as a joke, it's presented as a statement and it's not funny.

"what's the issue? They're having a good time here." Sacks, a former high school teacher, replied "yes, it's humor, but it's adult humor being played out on little boys. Twelve year-old boys don't get the humor, but they feel the insult."

 

[Yesteryear]

A person who takes a flippant statement to ‘lighten-up” as a ‘command’ is by design intentionally misinterpreting the statement. To ‘lighten-up’ is nothing more then a suggestion to relax. Nothing offensive is meant. You however have taken such a simple suggestion and made it a ‘command’. No command was meant or implied.
I have peruse this thread and have found no racial jokes other then the ones you have posted. All other jokes are gender based as male or female. Why are you trying to make it a racial issue? The jokes you are posting are nothing more than racial slurs and does not pretain to the original posting. A true joke is of a light-hearted nature and does not pretain to race or nationallity. They are meant to bestow a brief moment of laughter to the reader. Why turn something meant to be light-hearted and fun into something negative when nothing negative was meant?

 

[Yesteryear]

PJJJJ, you go girl friend!

 

[Turtle]

Some jokes are geared to stereotypical 'truths' about men, and therefore of course, if 'woman' was substituted, it wouldnt' be funny.

Some, some, some, if, if, if, yeah, there are exceptions to everything. I'm not trying to point out all of the various permutations of humor, I'm pointing out the trend of mean-spirited male-bashing jokes and the effect they are now having on people and society at large. It's that simple.

Seriously, what would you be thinking if there was a get-together and someone told a blonde joke, and a blonde woman started taking serious offence to those jokes? I won't speak for you, but I'd be thinking, jeez, it's just a joke it's not aimed at you specifically, and it's all in fun.. get a life.

But that doesn't happen, does it? People, dumb blondes included, see dumb blonde jokes for what they are. But this example is just one more hypothetical exception that merely deflects the issues I brought up.

It says a lot becuz men are often known to think with parts other than their brains, and that is probably where the men-are-not-the-brightest jokes come from.

But that's not where they come from. That's an attempt at justification for them, tho. Even your statement here about the notion that men can think with parts other than their brain is a silly joke, since other parts can't think. This is one where it comes down to men and women thinking differently, and because men don't think the same way as women, men are therefor stupid.

You can choose to see that as a 'difference'. Women can choose to see that as less than bright and make jokes about it.

Again, it depends on the joke. If the joke focuses on the differences, that's one thing, but when it spills over into "all things men" that's another thing entirely. I'm talking about a very specific issue, and the ramifications that have manifested themselves, and you keep looking for exceptions to it. Well, duh, yeah, there are exceptions, but the exceptions aren't the problem, now are they?

I was only making the point that jokes are funny becuz they are based in truths and stereotypes, and I remembered that you yourself had said that very thing just recently, so I was making that point and showing that you agreed with that point.

Like I said, it's a very dangerous door to open. If you're going to do that, you need to make absolutely sure that (a) you are aware of it and (b) that you want to do it.

And how do you suppose that was a point 'against you'? I don't see it as against you at all. I agree with you. You are correct. That is the point I was making.

No, you weren't agreeing with me. I said, "No. Male bashing insofar as making the man out to be worthless, useless idiot has nothing to do with being able to defend themselves." You disagreed and then used my quote to seemingly to mean that as long as it's based on a stereotype or based in the truth, as long as it's funny, then it's OK. I never said all the man-bashing jokes weren't funny. In fact, I said many of them are. When it comes to humor, as far as I'm concerned, nothing is off limits. It's either funny or it's not. But being funny does not mean that it's harmless in all cases. You even tried to justify the male-bashing jokes with "can't you at least let us have our jokes, even if at your expense??" Apparently, you don't think the male-bashing has any ramifications, and that's fine. You'd be wrong, but it's still fine.

'You' are making issue with men being the target of jokes.

Yes, but it's not my own unique, never thought of before by anyone else, version of it, and it's got nothing whatsoever to do with my self esteem. Bringing my supposed motives into this, rather than dealing with the words on the screen, is out of line.

Yes, it would probably be the same as it was for this gender, ie pulled off the shelves, manufacturer boycotted, in the news, etc. Why? Becuz it's 'boys' first of all, and secondly, it's not presented as a joke, it's presented as a statement and it's not funny.

But the thing is, to many women, especially younger ones, that t-shirt is about as funny as it gets. To them it's hilarious. Boys certainly, and later men, don't think like women, ergo boys, and by default men, are stupid. My 24-year old niece has the t-shirt and the sweatshirt, as well as the bumper sticker on her car. She thinks it's a hoot. And in the context of a 7 year old girl talking about boys, it is funny, because that's exactly how they think. The problem comes when that way of thinking is fostered and nurtured and reinforced into later life.

My niece didn't like it much when I pointed out to her that she works real hard at making her self attractive to these stupid boys, much less that she married one a few weeks ago. If boys are so stupid, what does that say about the women who work so hard to get ahold of one? But she's still got the bumper sticker on her car. A little boys and little girls read that, and just like everything else that anyone ever reads or sees or hears, it has an effect. Add that to the TV shows and commercials, and the effects are long-lasting and wide-ranging.

"what's the issue? They're having a good time here." Sacks, a former high school teacher, replied "yes, it's humor, but it's adult humor being played out on little boys. Twelve year-old boys don't get the humor, but they feel the insult."

And 12 year old girls become 24 year old women and they retain the same attitude. And that's precisely what I meant earlier in the thread when I wrote, The problem is when it spills over into real life where children view male adults as being inept and incompetent without even knowing what that means, because the TV shows and commercials tell them to think that way. It spills over into adulthood where women demand respect from men, earned or not, but refuse to give it, earned or not.

That's the issue that I'm talking about. It's not about whether dumb blond jokes or male bashing jokes are funny or not. And it's for dаmned sure not about my own personal self esteem. Sheesh.

 

[Turtle]

I have peruse this thread and have found no racial jokes other then the ones you have posted. All other jokes are gender based as male or female. Why are you trying to make it a racial issue?

That's what you got out of that? Really? A racial issue? Please tell me that you're either kidding or you have stolen your mommie's laptop. This is soooo not about any racial issue.

The jokes you are posting are nothing more than racial slurs and does not pretain to the original posting.

You're right, they have nothing whatsoever to do with the original posting. They were put there as an absurd example as a direct rebuttal to the statement of, "The telling of a joke is trying to make others laugh, it is not meant to be demeaning to any one group," to show that while you, I, and many others view the telling of a joke in that light, not everyone or every joke is meant solely to make others laugh, and some are, in fact, quite specifically demeaning to a particular group.

A true joke is of a light-hearted nature and does not pretain to race or nationallity.

Nonsense. A true joke is funny, regardless of the subject matter. Some of the funniest jokes are ethnic jokes. I've got some Georgia jokes that would slay you.

They are meant to bestow a brief moment of laughter to the reader. Why turn something meant to be light-hearted and fun into something negative when nothing negative was meant?

Some jokes are light-hearted and meant to bestow a brief moment of laughter, but not all jokes are. The racial jokes I used as an example were not meant to be negative and were put there to make a point of refuting an rather narrow scope of what defines humor. Why take a perfectly rational example and try to make it into something negative?

But you actually helped make my point in getting all offended at racial humor and it being directed solely at a particular group. That's what male-bashing jokes do. But you seem to be fine and dandy with the male-bashing jokes. That seems a little odd. Strike that, it's hypocritical. Take this quote, "Women joking around should not cause such a reaction from a man, if it does then that man must have some insecurities in himself. I'm not saying you do, but it sure sounds that way..." and replace "woman" and "a man" with "white people" and "blacks" and you'll see just how hypocritical it actually is. What you may see as harmless humor, others may see as something else. Male bashing humor, while often very funny, is not always harmless simply by the virtue of being funny.

Watch the TV shows and the commercials and you'll pick up on it, you'll see it. And when you do, you'll think of me.

Here ya go, religious, ethnic, and man-bashing, all rolled into one. Funny stuff.


There are 3 good arguments that Jesus was Black:
1. He called everyone Brother.
2. He liked Gospel.
3. He couldn't get a fair trial.

But then there are also 3 good arguments that Jesus was Jewish:
1. He went into His Fathers business.
2. He lived at home until he was 33.
3. He was sure his Mother was a virgin and his mother was sure he was God.

But then there are 3 good arguments that Jesus was Italian:
1. He talked with his hands.
2. He had wine with every meal.
3. He used olive oil.

Also, 3 good arguments that Jesus was Irish:
1. He never got married.
2. He was always telling stories.
3. He loved green pastures.

And, 3 strong good arguments that Jesus was a Californian:
1. He never cut his hair.
2. He walked around barefoot all the time.
3. He started a new religion.

But the most compelling evidence of all - 3 irrefutable proofs that Jesus was actually a woman:
1. He had to feed a crowd at a moment's notice when there was no food.
2. He kept trying to get a message across to a bunch of men who just didn't get it.
3. Even when He was dead, He had to get up because there was more work for Him to do.

 

[pelicn]

Now THAT was funny!

 

[guido4475]

Or how can you tell that youre wife is cheating on you with a jb hunt driver? he is still trying to back out of the driveway when you get home.

or how can you tell youre wife is cheating on you with another truck driver? there are **** bottles on your front lawn.

or what do you call a lot lizard with a mattress strapped to her back? an owner-operator.

 

[Yesteryear]

Turtle, darling sweetest love, nothing you say or post could ever offend me. I am not offended by any 'jokes' you post nor am I offended by your constant negativity to others on this forum. I understand that for some that is just their personality. I still love ya! See, my momma always taught me to be kind to others. I always listen to my momma!

 

[Turtle]

Constant negativity?
Your momma would be so proud.

 

[DougTravels]

I like this joke:

A speaker at a meeting proclaims "All Lawyers are A-Holes" someone stands and says "I am highly offended by that statement!" The speaker says " I'm sorry you must be a Lawyer" The guy responds " No sir, I'm an A-hole"

 

[Moot]

What do turtles and blonds have in common? They're both screwed when they are on their backs.

 

[Turtle]

Moot, it just doesn't get any better than that.

 

[guido4475]

Okay, Mr Turtle, where'd you get the picture of me lookng at myself in the mirror?

 

[inkasnana]

In the interest of fairness, here are some "woman-bashing" jokes.

Why do men break wind more than women?
Because women can't shut up long enough to build up the required pressure.
************************************************

Visiting Afghanistan for a second time, a war correspondent noted that since the fall of the Taliban, wives who used to walk ten paces behind their husbands were now walking ten paces in front. The journalist asked one of the men if this was a sign of growing equality.
"No", the man replied. "Land-mines."
************************************************

How many men does it take to open a beer?
None. It should be opened by the time she brings it.
************************************************

How do you know when a woman is about to say something smart?
When she starts her sentence with "A man once told me ..."
************************************************

How can you tell if your wife is dead?
The sex is the same but the dishes pile up.
************************************************

Q. Did you hear about the guy who finally figured out women ?
A. He died laughing before he could tell anybody.
************************************************

Women are like computers -- even your smallest mistakes are stored in long-term memory for later retrieval.
************************************************

Q: If your dog is barking at the back door and your wife is yelling at the front door, which do you let in first?
A: The dog of course. At least he'll shut up after you let him in.
************************************************

Q: Why do women have smaller feet then men?
A: So they can stand closer to the kitchen sink.
************************************************

A man in his 40's bought a new BMW and was out on the interstate for a nice evening drive. The top was down, the breeze was blowing through what was left of his hair and he decided to open her up.

As the needle jumped up to 80 mph, he suddenly saw flashing red and blue lights behind him.

"There's no way they can catch a BMW," he thought to himself and opened her up further. The needle hit 90, 100.... Then the reality of the situation hit him. "What the hell am I doing?" he thought and pulled over.
The cop came up to him, took his license without a word and examined it and the car.

"It's been a long day, this is the end of my shift and it's Friday the 13th. I don't feel like more paperwork, so if you can give me an excuse for your driving that I haven't heard before, you can go."

The guy thinks for a second and says, "Last week my wife ran off with a cop. I was afraid you were trying to give her back."

"Have a nice weekend," said the officer.
************************************************

Q: What's worse than a male chauvinistic pig?
A: A women who won't do what she's told.
************************************************

Q: What do you call a woman with two brain cells?
A: Pregnant.
************************************************

Q: What do you call a woman who has lost 95% of her intelligence?
A: Divorced.
************************************************

Q: What food reduces a woman’s sex drive by at least 90 percent?
A: Wedding cake.
************************************************

When a man marries Miss Right, he never realizes that her first name is “Always”.
************************************************

In the process of robbing the bank, his mask fell off. He quickly put it back on his face and asked the teller directly ahead of him if she saw his face. She admitted that she did, so he shot and killed her.

He then turned to the teller that was beside the one her just killed and asked if she had also seen his face. She said that she did and he shot and killed her too. He then turned to a man, a customer who just happened to be in the bank when the robbery was taking place. The robber asked the customer if he had seen his face.

The customer replied, “No, but I’m pretty sure my wife did.”
************************************************

 

[Turtle]

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[Turtle]

​

 

[pjjjjj]

Ok, let me rephrase parts of my statements for better understanding; good jokes are stereotypical and based in truths, and that's what makes them funny. I won't mention that you agree with that becuz it's from a different thread.

Some of the jokes about men are based on truths and stereotypes which are general to anyone, while some are specifically geared to men. In the ones that are specifically geared to men, if you changed the word 'man', to 'woman', it wouldn't be funny becuz it men and women have different truths and stereotypes in some regards. In the ones that are more general, the word 'man' can be changed to 'blonde' or 'mother-in-law' or any number of other words.

Why can dumb blondes see a joke for what it is, and laugh along, and yet a man cannot?

You might ask, well why is 'man' lumped as one group, while a woman is broken up into segments, such as 'blonde woman' mother-in-law', 'wife', 'old woman'. Well, as mentioned in my previous point, man has for years taken advantage of many groups, such as blacks, natives, women, children, animals, you name it. It wasn't just one group of 'man', it was 'generally man'. Since 'man' was the oppressor, it's politically incorrect now for a man to make a joke about the people he oppressed in the past, and yet, the people who were oppressed still get to make jokes about their previous oppressors. It's that simple. Like I said, you had your day, deal with it.

It's a common 'truth', and not just my joking, that men, in general, are prone to think with parts other than their brains. If you are unable to comprehend the figurative wording, I can elaborate privately with more exact wording if you need me to. My guess is that most already know what I mean. And like I said, you can choose to see it as 'thinking differently', and women can choose to see it as being laughably unbright.

Forgive me for not being bright enough to understand the dangerous door I have opened in making reference to a statement you made in another thread which was relevant to this thread. To me, that might be true for a forum where the user has a different identity with each post, but here? You are known as Turtle in this post and in the other post, and maybe I'm wrong but I don't expect your truths to be different from one post to another.

I am not making exceptions. When a man joke is made, surely you understand that it is a joke, and not a true reference to ALL men? All wives don't talk non-stop, and all mother-in-laws aren't Satan-in-disguise either, and some smart brunettes dye their hair blonde.

I'm just not getting why you think man is so special that only when jokes are made about MAN, they can be damaging and have ramifications. What makes you so arrogant to think that black jokes and mexican jokes and blonde jokes are not just as potentially damaging to young ears?

Yesteryear mentioned your self esteem, I didn't. But if you want to talk about supposed motives, let's look at arrogance. Arrogance of the white man to think he's above the things he has laid on everyone else for centuries.

IF I may quote you here, since it's the same thread in which you said it,

The problem is when it spills over into real life where children view male adults as being inept and incompetent without even knowing what that means, because the TV shows and commercials tell them to think that way. It spills over into adulthood where women demand respect from men, earned or not, but refuse to give it, earned or not.

That's the issue that I'm talking about. It's not about whether dumb blond jokes or male bashing jokes are funny or not. And it's for dаmned sure not about my own personal self esteem. Sheesh.

For centuries women, other races, developmentally delayed, physically handicapped, other nationalities, gays, and other minorities bore the brunt of man's chauvinism in believing himself to be superior. At that time, children were also hearing things, and it may have had an effect on how they felt about certain groups even as an adult. You could say the same thing, that men demanded respect, earned or not, refusing to give it, earned or not. Now it is the group of which you happen to be a part of, which is being bashed. To everything there is a season.

Watch TV shows and commercials, and whenever you hear man bashing, replace it with 'woman' or 'black person', try to imagine when 'man' was doing the same to other groups, and how it may not have been funny to them at the time, and how they may have felt just as you do now. And when you do, you'll think of me.

 

[Turtle]

The dangerous door you opened is rather than dealing with the issues I brought up, you've made it personal. You've directed this entire post directly at me. How may times did you use the word "you" in this post? Twenty four times. The natural and logical response is for me to take it personally, and go on the defensive and get personal right back with you. That means bringing up stuff from outside of this thread, be it from another thread or from... elsewhere, whatever it takes to get on the offensive and get back at you and win the argument. That's why posts degrade and get locked. I'm trying to stay above all that.

In this post, you have still avoided the issues and are still trying to look for the exceptions that nullify the reality. If you would like to get into a philosophical discussion of what makes stereotypical humor funny, great, I'd love that.


I'll just make two comments on the following...

For centuries women, other races, developmentally delayed, physically handicapped, other nationalities, gays, and other minorities bore the brunt of man's chauvinism in believing himself to be superior. At that time, children were also hearing things, and it may have had an effect on how they felt about certain groups even as an adult. You could say the same thing, that men demanded respect, earned or not, refusing to give it, earned or not. Now it is the group of which you happen to be a part of, which is being bashed. To everything there is a season.

One, you admit that it's bashing, and two, it astounds me that you are trying to justify mean-spirited male-bashing as being OK simply because of how things used to be. All of a sudden, "equality" takes on a whole new meaning. Apparently, you think equality and revenge mean the same thing.

And this one:

I'm just not getting why you think man is so special that only when jokes are made about MAN, they can be damaging and have ramifications. What makes you so arrogant to think that black jokes and mexican jokes and blonde jokes are not just as potentially damaging to young ears?

This is where the door can get very dangerous. You've called me arrogant over something that I never said. You're putting words into my mouth. That's not only dangerous, it's stupid. I stated, quite plainly, that there is a difference between jokes about men and the ones that are mean-spirited and are bashing. And I never said, never even hinted, that other types of jokes are not potentially damaging to young ears. In fact, I said. "...and just like everything else that anyone ever reads or sees or hears, it has an effect." Be careful who you are calling arrogant, especially when you have to invent shіt in order to do it.

How's that door lookin' to ya now? You wanna stick to the issues, or do you want to keep that door open? If you don't agree that mean-spirited male-bashing jokes and that more often than not the bumbling male bufoon on TV and in commercials doesn't have any long-lasting real life ramifications, or doesn't even exist, fine, just say so.