Poll: Growing number incorrectly call Obama Muslim
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dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
Maybe this would shed some light on what may appear as one judging another.....
witness23
Veteran Expediter
And maybe this will shed some light on the subject of "judging others":
Matthew 7:1-5 ESV /
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Luke 6:37 ESV
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;
John 7:24 ESV
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”
Romans 2:1-3 ESV
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?
Matthew 7:5 ESV
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Matthew 7:1 ESV
“Judge not, that you be not judged.
James 4:11-12 ESV
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Ephesians 4:29 ESV
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Romans 14:1-13 ESV
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...
Matthew 7:1-2 ESV
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
James 4:12 ESV
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
Matthew 7:1-29 ESV
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...
Luke 6:31 ESV
And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them.
Galatians 5:14 ESV
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
Romans 2:3 ESV
Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?
Matthew 7:1-6 ESV
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. ...
2 Corinthians 5:10 ESV
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
John 8:7 ESV
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”
1 Corinthians 13:1-8 ESV
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; ...
1 Corinthians 2:15 ESV
The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.
John 3:17 ESV
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Matthew 6:14-15 ESV
For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Romans 14:1 ESV
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions.
Proverbs 31:9 ESV
Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.
Matthew 7:15 ESV
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
1 Corinthians 6:1-6 ESV
When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life! So if you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who have no standing in the church? I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no one among you wise enough to settle a dispute between the brothers, ...
Luke 6:37-42 ESV
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven; give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.” He also told them a parable: “Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? ...
Ezekiel 22:2 ESV
“And you, son of man, will you judge, will you judge the bloody city? Then declare to her all her abominations.
Hebrews 10:25 ESV
Not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Hebrews 4:12 ESV
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Matthew 9:11 ESV
And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
Matthew 6:33 ESV
But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
Isaiah 53:1-12 ESV
Who has believed what he has heard from us? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or majesty that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted. But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed. ...
Psalm 15:1-5 ESV
A Psalm of David. O Lord, who shall sojourn in your tent? Who shall dwell on your holy hill? He who walks blamelessly and does what is right and speaks truth in his heart; who does not slander with his tongue and does no evil to his neighbor, nor takes up a reproach against his friend; in whose eyes a vile person is despised, but who honors those who fear the Lord; who swears to his own hurt and does not change; who does not put out his money at interest and does not take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things shall never be moved.
1 John 3:17 ESV
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?
Galatians 6:1 ESV
Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted.
1 Corinthians 1:1-31 ESV
Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes, To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge— ...
John 3:16 ESV
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Matthew 7:12 ESV
“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 13:3 ESV
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
dieseldiva
Veteran Expediter
Yes, I get the whole "judge not" thing.....I think the "know them by their fruit" part is more of a head's up to be aware of who is in your midst....know who you're dealing with, if you will.
Greg... somewhere, somehow you are deliberately missing the point that Islam is simply not compatible with Western Civilization. The United States from its very founding until the present day has been and continues to be a predominantly Christian nation. Despite all the various ethnic groups moving to the USA, we remain largely a Christian nation built upon Judeo-Christian traditions, values and principles.
Can anyone point to a situation where Muslims are getting along with their Western neighbors? Not in Europe. England, France and the Scandinavian countries are experiencing real trouble from the influx of Muslims. Canada has trouble with Muslims. Everywhere they go, once they establish a sufficiently large population, the Muslims start demanding accommodation. Sharia law... the whole nine yards.
We are fortunate Muslim numbers remain relatively small here in the US. The USA is not Europe. Those coming here should seek to assimilate. We're not going down the path of accommodation. The public schools and universities would have you think Islam has always been an integral part of American culture. That's a blatant falsehood. Islam has pretty much been a nonentity in American life.
No doubt, Obama is a Muslim sympathizer and that's enough to worry about. Corrections will be made at the voting booth soon.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Nope not missing the point, it is sometimes a contrive notion built on the same issues that we have heard for centuries.
The problem is if we are a Christian nation, then we need to act like one. Practice what is being preached, not live on the predicated fear that those followers of an entire religion are out to get us and subjugate us. This crap was used in the Europe during the crusades, when Spain was reconquered and by the Holy Roman Empire to control people.
If you know anything about the capitulation of Granada, you will see where a lot of this has started and what seems to be repeated today.
There are Muslim communities in Russia, Eastern Europe, Balkins, Greece, Italy, and a few other places. I don't hear a lot of issues with those countries other than former colony of Italy's who has an issue with Ethiopians sneaking into the country.
We still have more here than any country in Europe, ten times the amount than Canada and Mexico and in this area, it is still recognized as the largest concentrated population of Arabs outside the middle east (according to the several sources), some in both the Muslim leadership of the area and in local government are claiming we are America's Muslim Capitol. We have the largest Mosque in North America here just 7 miles from where I am sitting.
I know this may sound like it boasting but its not, it is fact. The point is, unlike Paris where there are still riots and killings, there is little blood shed here for a lot of reasons. Most of what has been happening here has been about the same as the Albanians and the Ukrainians fighting among themselves.
So I don't see it as a them verses us, to be exact, the BIGGEST issue has been with the city of Hamtramck and the call for Pray. Once a predominantly Polish Catholic city, the old people died or moved leaving it wide open for others to move in, which a very large population of Muslims have just done that. There was a fight and a compromise made. The other issue that was talked about here was the foot baths at U of M Dearborn but not one mentioned about the Chaplin services or the other religious services that the university provides - including a full time priest and a few other full time religious leaders of other faiths who are on staff for Students and Patients alike.
The problems that have been flourishing in Europe have been caused by two serious issues:
One is they have built their society as monolithic as possible - Unified French are French, Unified Germans are Germans and so on and they the only real issues were shifting borders among waring neighboring countries, more so in the last 300 or so years than the previous 700.
When say the French took over Alsace, they were now French subjects, nothing more. Either they assimilated or were in trouble.
The second issue is a direct cause of that monolithic society, because their society was not built by immigrants, there is a challenge to the society to understand how to integrate them into their society as member of a society. This is a very important issue for us, because the Europeans just don't get how we are a homogenize bunch and don't see the issues they see among different people of different cultures. France and especially england made it a point to place people in caste type system and view them only that way. As much as people want to believe that France was open about other races, they had a serious underlying issue with people from other cultures, specifically from colonies. England still struggles with their immigrants, there still is an issue with some of Indian decent and some of Pakistan decent over their feeling not part of their country.
The problem is if we are a Christian nation, then we need to act like one. Practice what is being preached, not live on the predicated fear that those followers of an entire religion are out to get us and subjugate us. This crap was used in the Europe during the crusades, when Spain was reconquered and by the Holy Roman Empire to control people.
If you know anything about the capitulation of Granada, you will see where a lot of this has started and what seems to be repeated today.
There are Muslim communities in Russia, Eastern Europe, Balkins, Greece, Italy, and a few other places. I don't hear a lot of issues with those countries other than former colony of Italy's who has an issue with Ethiopians sneaking into the country.
We still have more here than any country in Europe, ten times the amount than Canada and Mexico and in this area, it is still recognized as the largest concentrated population of Arabs outside the middle east (according to the several sources), some in both the Muslim leadership of the area and in local government are claiming we are America's Muslim Capitol. We have the largest Mosque in North America here just 7 miles from where I am sitting.
I know this may sound like it boasting but its not, it is fact. The point is, unlike Paris where there are still riots and killings, there is little blood shed here for a lot of reasons. Most of what has been happening here has been about the same as the Albanians and the Ukrainians fighting among themselves.
So I don't see it as a them verses us, to be exact, the BIGGEST issue has been with the city of Hamtramck and the call for Pray. Once a predominantly Polish Catholic city, the old people died or moved leaving it wide open for others to move in, which a very large population of Muslims have just done that. There was a fight and a compromise made. The other issue that was talked about here was the foot baths at U of M Dearborn but not one mentioned about the Chaplin services or the other religious services that the university provides - including a full time priest and a few other full time religious leaders of other faiths who are on staff for Students and Patients alike.
The problems that have been flourishing in Europe have been caused by two serious issues:
One is they have built their society as monolithic as possible - Unified French are French, Unified Germans are Germans and so on and they the only real issues were shifting borders among waring neighboring countries, more so in the last 300 or so years than the previous 700.
When say the French took over Alsace, they were now French subjects, nothing more. Either they assimilated or were in trouble.
The second issue is a direct cause of that monolithic society, because their society was not built by immigrants, there is a challenge to the society to understand how to integrate them into their society as member of a society. This is a very important issue for us, because the Europeans just don't get how we are a homogenize bunch and don't see the issues they see among different people of different cultures. France and especially england made it a point to place people in caste type system and view them only that way. As much as people want to believe that France was open about other races, they had a serious underlying issue with people from other cultures, specifically from colonies. England still struggles with their immigrants, there still is an issue with some of Indian decent and some of Pakistan decent over their feeling not part of their country.
Greg... using the Detroit metro area is simply too provincial and too small to draw correct conclusions for the nation as a whole. Yes, Detroit is a bastian for Muslims but what you folks tolerate and accommodate in Detroit won't sell in many places across the US. Detroit is so messed up it's probably best not to use Detroit to make any point at all. Detroit is a failed enterprise.
Europe has been weak for centuries. They accommodate all day long. When folks, including Muslims, emigrate to America... assimilation is expected.
Europe has been weak for centuries. They accommodate all day long. When folks, including Muslims, emigrate to America... assimilation is expected.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Oh I see, it is too small, too provincial?
Sorry but it is a very good example of intergration of several societies into one region without the problems that are in other parts of the country.
It is a proper place to look for solutions, the law enforcement community has, and so have others seeking out answers without the fear of ... well ... offending anyone.
We tolerate ignorance and idiocy too. Many who don't know, don't care to know it is not Detroit, but the region that this has taken place in. It is the city that has dragged the region down to an unforgivable level but it is not because we tolerated or accommodated any one person or group of people.
I agree, it is messed up, and it is a failed enterprise but it has nothing to do with the subject at hand and only deflects from the point.
The point ... is simply that for 80 years we have had an Arab and a Muslim population here. They are as integrated as the Jews and Italians are in NYC. To be exact, the same type of accommodation that many seem to speak of seem to have happened for the Orthodox Jewish communities in and around NYC. Maybe even more so there because I remember a BIG stink being made about some Jewish only schools that are run by the NYC school district.
But I digress ...
We have done little in the way of accommodating them in comparison to other cultures being accommodated. We have one Wal-Mart who has an Arab, not just Muslim clientèle and going there is just like going to one in Kentucky or Chicago or Indiana. The difference is ... well there isn't one.
I've been in a Wal-mart and other stores where I didn't see much English and the packaging all has dual languages, English and Spanish.
I have yet seen the massive changes to our schools to teach Arabic studies. I have yet seen a push to have Arabic speaking teachers in the class room across the country, have you?
BUT I know that a school districts across the country are pushed to have Spanish speaking teachers in classes, and even to the point that English is a secondary language in many of the schools. Isn't there schools that actually allow students to cross the border from Mexico to go to school and those are 100% Spanish speaking schools - talk about a bit too much.
We have accommodated workers who for the most part are not even legal residences here by providing special education programs for them and their kids and even in some parts of the country we have school districts tasked with the job of making sure that these kids get an education at the expense of others.
The worst accommodation I can see is our immigration system being run by people who neither want to enforce the laws or ignore the real serious issues with the Mexican invasion.
Not to pick on the Mexicans and other Latinos, it also happens for the Chinese and the Vietnamese and some Eastern Europeans
I can't see the accommodations everyone thinks we are making here, can you spell them out to explain what's different than say Dallas or San Diego or San Francisco?
What do we tolerate? People practicing their own religion.
Here is something that is actually funny and to think about.
Hamtramck has a large Muslim population. The city was made up of Catholic Poles for the last century. Many of them died off or moved, leaving a lot of houses for sale so a lot of Muslims made it their home. A few years back there was a 'fight' of sorts that took place over "call for pray" and it was settled with a compromise (imagine that). Well as I sit in my truck, near a pray center, I can barely hear the call. BUT here are two funny things about this, the first is what I said about Europe, they don't know how to treat their immigrants. Here we have no political disenfranchising within the community (the biggest complaint in Paris by the way) and we have a polish meat shop that has been in business for 70 years right across the street from the pray center and they sometimes have a sign with their specials on them - included is ham and pork ribs. I didn't yet see that shop burn to the ground or the owner killed.
This region is not burning, it is not the Paris of the US.
AND yes we are actually a good model for the rest of the country, we are not afraid to have dialogs with people who are different nor are we ignorant to believe that everyone who belongs to Islam is out to kill everyone.
If the country can't get a grip on the fact that Muslims are part of this country as much as Christians are, then we still have a lot of growing up to do as a country.
Detroit/San Francisco? Detroit is much preferable to San Franciso. I think I could find common ground with Muslims on that choice. My limited understanding of Islam leads me to believe that practicing Muslims are by definition pretty conservative. I realize it is the radical extremists making Islam unpalatable for most Americans. Yet, the Radical Muslims seem to have hijacked the movement from their more moderate followers. Christianity had its Reformation. Islam hasn't.
Not to pick on you, Greg...if Detroit is to be studied, it will be for her failures. Practically no one wants to move there. How many hundreds of thousands have moved away?
BTW, Islam might be an integral part of life in Detroit. That's an issue for local concern. I would dare say that for 95% of Americans, Islam has no bearing whatsoever in their daily lives. Outside of a few metropolitan areas, Islam means nothing and has no influence. If anyone wishes to be in denial about the United States being a predominantly Christian nation... well, count all the church buildings and compare their number to mosques. I don't know the ratio, but it would be ridicuously lopsided.
So long as radicals control much of Islam, Americans will be wary.
Not to pick on you, Greg...if Detroit is to be studied, it will be for her failures. Practically no one wants to move there. How many hundreds of thousands have moved away?
BTW, Islam might be an integral part of life in Detroit. That's an issue for local concern. I would dare say that for 95% of Americans, Islam has no bearing whatsoever in their daily lives. Outside of a few metropolitan areas, Islam means nothing and has no influence. If anyone wishes to be in denial about the United States being a predominantly Christian nation... well, count all the church buildings and compare their number to mosques. I don't know the ratio, but it would be ridicuously lopsided.
So long as radicals control much of Islam, Americans will be wary.
Obama has been to church how many times since moving into the White House? No, he is not a Christian. The question isn't who else is or isn't, only whether he is Christian or Muslim. His actions define him as more Muslim than Christian but then his actions define him as not Christian at all.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
maybe...
They are. The odd thing is many of them are pro-democrat but conservative in their ways and thinking. It is like stepping into some parts of Kentucky, strong conservative thinking, but pro-union and pro-democrat.
This is very true. BUT with that, there is a silence among them to see what happens and to act internally. A few I know are clear that if given a choice, they would want to deal with these issues themselves and not be passive about it and because they operate like old Mafia, they prefer not to let anyone know what's going on - which makes people wonder.
I equate some of this radicalism to the Christian Radicals, same style of control and fear mongering. It doesn't matter, Christian, Muslim or Jew - all religions have them. Some are hidden, or hid and others are open about all of it.
Reformation is actually happening, you should really look around, a lot is going on within and outside the religion to change it. It started about 10 years ago and seems to be taking hold.
I know you are not picking on me, and got to remember many of us view Detroit as the city and been forced to distance ourselves from it, I live in one part of the area but not Detroit - it is not like Chicago where you are from the suburbs but still say "I'm from Chicago".
Well sort of true but here is the thing, we are being affect by it because of the select few who are trying to bait us into hatred. It isn't that there isn't a meaning to the US by or with Islam, it is the perception that it is all bad that is the influence on our way of thinking - the American Psyche may be directly affected. Just this one issue, the NYC stuff has divided many of us without reconciliation, many like me see the issue on both sides and side with the law, not with the religion, not with the people who are claiming to be victims of this but just the law. However I don't think the country should ignore more important issues either, like Arlington, like the 9th circuit overturning a state's constitutional amendment, like the latest ruling redefining the SC first amendment decisions - actually all more important to us than the NYC stuff.
By the way, the Arab culture does however have a serious influence on us, every day there are things that affect us and the country - positive and negative.
Not all Muslims are Arabs while not all Arabs are Muslims.
NOPE can't agree with that.
I think this is a better way of putting it;
So long as radicals control our perception of Islam, Americans will be reluctant to learn about them.
Of course, most Muslims living in the United States are pro-Democrat. Democrats are the party of accommodation. Moreover, the Muslim community must have drawn tremendous encouragement from the Democrats for electing the first American president with a Muslim heritage. It's a one-time anomaly. Obama's sympathies have been exposed. We're just barely more than 18 months into this administration and it's becoming clear Obama must be replaced. Having watched Obama govern for 18 months, and Americans knowing much more about him, I can't see how Obama gets reelected. It wouldn't matter if Obama was Jerry Falwell's nephew, he is an abysmal failure. His over-the-top socialism should do him in.
He hasn't attended church once since his inauguration. No true Christian goes upwards of two years without going to church. He snubbed the national day of prayer. He made a big show of pushing homosexuality on the Easter celebration. There are plenty of examples of omission/comission that clearly show by his actions he is only a Christian as far as a checkbox and a selling point to the gullible.
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Spot-frickin'-on ....
And the fact that you didn't qualify "radicals" is entirely appropriate ....
While radical Islam is certainly not an insignificant danger, I'm beginning to believe that it pales in comparison to our own "homegrown" retar ..... errr ...... I mean radicals ......
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RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Oh, yes it would ...... if he were, it would virtually guarantee that he would not be re-elected ....
