We have a new conspiracy theory. The False Showe operation.
Pilot/J accused of rebate fraud, Millions of $
- Thread starter LDB
- Start date
We have a new conspiracy theory. The False Showe operation.
moose
Veteran Expediter
Oh, o.k.
so what the heck is a fuel discount ?
frankly i never heard of a 'fuel rebate' before.
{just one more of those 'there's never a question too stupid to be asked on EO'}{but we'll make a chilli out of you if you dare ask}
zorry
Veteran Expediter
I earned a lot of respect for TA in the '90's while pulling auto parts in high cube vans for Heartland Express.
The TA at Sawyer Mi replaced a wheel seal on a trl with little tires . Unusual setup. The driver made it 90 miles before he burned up the bearings and ruined the axle spindle.
TA promptly admitted their shop made the mistake of installing the wrong seal. They covered the total repair without a fight.
Maybe they will becoming out with a new advertising slogan
TA , THE HONEST TRUCKSTOP
The TA at Sawyer Mi replaced a wheel seal on a trl with little tires . Unusual setup. The driver made it 90 miles before he burned up the bearings and ruined the axle spindle.
TA promptly admitted their shop made the mistake of installing the wrong seal. They covered the total repair without a fight.
Maybe they will becoming out with a new advertising slogan
TA , THE HONEST TRUCKSTOP
Slo-Ride
Veteran Expediter
So did the Fax one page free coupon. Especailly when I had nearly 10 pages to send off.
Not a cheap there there either..A few years ago I stop collecting those coupons and saved enought without faxing anything at the Pilot I can now do it from the truck.
Murraycroexp
Veteran Expediter
My experience with rebates is several years old. But fuel retails have programs that they build diesel volume with by signing on fleet owners. The more volume we bought, the more rebate money we got. The rebates per gallon dropped dramatically a few years ago but in about '08 & '09 we were seeing rebates as high as 30-45 cents per gallon!! It was real. But the huge rebates didn't last. And the rebates varied per brand and per location. Just my two bits.
FSC is what the shipper pays
Fuel rebate is what TA/Petro or Pilot/Flying J pays trucking companies for the amount of fuel trucking companies buy from them.
Fuel discounts are what truck drivers get from the company to buy fuel at certain truck stop chains and some companies give their drivers more then others.
here we get .08 at loves .07 at Pilot/FlyingJ and Cost Plus 2.5 to 3 cents at TA/Petro. The T/A ones can be anywhere from .04 to.60 a gallon you have to call in to find out those discounts. Here try this, if your a independent fueling in Ontario Ca. at the TA the pump price is 4.109 but with the discount of cost plus the price is 3.574 for a savings of .535 a gallon now that's a big savings even for my sprinter.
Fuel rebate is what TA/Petro or Pilot/Flying J pays trucking companies for the amount of fuel trucking companies buy from them.
Fuel discounts are what truck drivers get from the company to buy fuel at certain truck stop chains and some companies give their drivers more then others.
here we get .08 at loves .07 at Pilot/FlyingJ and Cost Plus 2.5 to 3 cents at TA/Petro. The T/A ones can be anywhere from .04 to.60 a gallon you have to call in to find out those discounts. Here try this, if your a independent fueling in Ontario Ca. at the TA the pump price is 4.109 but with the discount of cost plus the price is 3.574 for a savings of .535 a gallon now that's a big savings even for my sprinter.
Or, as the affadavit shows, they can be the bait that gets carriers to spend a lot of money, trading exclusively with PFJ. And if the carriers aren't watching closely [or using 'optimized' software that watches for them], the rebates can be divided, with a portion going to the PFJ sales mgr, thereby increasing the sales commission for them.
Read the affadavit - pages 49 & 50 are particularly illuminating....That's pretty much as far as I've got, so it may get even worse, but I can't imagine how - can't even quote what these respected and successful businesspeople have to say when they don't believe any 'outsiders' are listening. [Mitt Romney looks good in comparison!]
It's not just PFJ that has some 'splainen to do, as evidenced by the following quote from a recorded conversation between Lori McFarland, PFJ's Discount Coordinator, and CHS2 [confidential human source 2, a person currently employed by PFJ]
MCFARLAND:
like they want
to get the full discount off of their invoice that they pay, but they don't want their owner/operators
to see the discount on their ComData invoice, 'cause they have access to look at the ComData report
CHS-2:
And, and then they'll tum around and give owner/operators whatever discount
It makes me sick to know that these people have been treated as deserving of respect for their success in business.
Awful lot of worms in this can, and the outcome
Hate to say this but it's none of our business what discount the company gets from any fuel retailer since the agreement is between the trucking company and the fuel retailers.
We as owners of our vehicles don't have to buy from any of the large truck stops we can go to the mom and pop truck stops where the company doesn't get a rebate.
The problem with Pilot is between carriers and not the O/O's or leased drivers.
We as owners of our vehicles don't have to buy from any of the large truck stops we can go to the mom and pop truck stops where the company doesn't get a rebate.
The problem with Pilot is between carriers and not the O/O's or leased drivers.
zorry
Veteran Expediter
I agree with Beachbum that it is none of our business what deal the company and the fuel vendor have.
It is nice when a company is upfront with the o/o and says this is what we pay and this is what we charge the o/o as a handling fee. They should cover their costs but use the negotiated pricing as an advantage to help the o/o maintain profitability.
Honesty goes a long way.
The shipper should be the major profit center for the carrier. Not the O/O.
It is nice when a company is upfront with the o/o and says this is what we pay and this is what we charge the o/o as a handling fee. They should cover their costs but use the negotiated pricing as an advantage to help the o/o maintain profitability.
Honesty goes a long way.
The shipper should be the major profit center for the carrier. Not the O/O.
and in the end..nothing will change for you or me...PJF will fire some scapegoats and they will get a huge fine and a slap across the hand...and life will go on....
Are you sure it isn't the discount you saw not the rebate?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using EO Forums mobile app
Not so fast they could raise prices a couple cents to cover their costs which would affect many.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using EO Forums mobile app
They could...anything is possible....
zorry
Veteran Expediter
Agree 100%. And they will do anything to make Mr H look innocent.
They have too much market share to do much to hurt them.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
I never have liked Pilot and their marketing skeems. They charge 3-5c a gallon more than competition then supposedly gives you a 5c discount. I have included a link you should read. My trucks will not buy fuel at Fly J nor Pilot from now on. If they do find another job. I don't do business with any organization that displays that attitude even if it costs very little more to do it. If anyone in my very small little company displayed themselves in that manner they'd be blackballed.
?F? ?Em Early and F? ?Em Often? Says Pilot Flying J VP About Customers
?F? ?Em Early and F? ?Em Often? Says Pilot Flying J VP About Customers
The problem with PFJ is a culture that approves of dishonesty [theft] among those who not only believe they can get away with it, but disparage the customers they are stealing from.
What comes through loud and clear in the conversations recorded in the affadavit is the attitude of contempt for people who "aren't smart enough to check" - in other words, 'if they're dumb enough to trust us, it's ok to cheat them'.
The problem with Pilot is that that kind of business culture, that contempt for everyone who isn't as 'smart' as the successful [but dishonest] businessperson - that's ugly and corrosive and disgraceful in the extreme.
If the whole upper management team of PFJ gets off with a slap on the wrist, and we don't scream bloody murder, then we deserve to be cheated and lied to and treated with contempt.
Read the affadavit, then tell us what you think.
PS Why do you suppose some customers [carriers] would request ComData not include the rebate/discount on invoices that owner operators have access to? Because they have nothing to hide?