Pending Violence?

Dreamer

Administrator Emeritus
Charter Member
Personal view here.. is it just me, or is this the most violently opinionated campaign ever? I thought the last one was bad.. this one blows it away. Every where I look, people are ready to come to blows over their views. There is no more civilized discussion, "hey we disagree over specifics, but the goal is the same".. no it's "If you disagree with me, you hate me, you hate God, you hate blacks, you hate women". We've all heard the references to another civil war, and sad to say, just based on the comments among people I count as friends on both sides, Dem and Rep, I'd say it's not far away. But contrary to some, I don't think it's another North/South.. even Black/White... I think it could happen with Democrats and Republicans.

I have seen so many ready to literally fight, cursing each other out, for disagreeing over minor issues, let alone major ones. I really would not be surprised, whichever way the election goes, for violence to break out ... started by which ever side loses.


I've just never seen it like this in my lifetime. I really feel like this nation is on the edge of something terrible, whichever way it goes.


Dale
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It is very complicated and FAR more basic than Democrat, Republican or party.

I pray every day that what I see coming our way passes us by, but I don't believe it will.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Watching the DNC today and listening to the commentary, I came to the conclusion that the guys running for President are both full of horse cheese and vinegar. It is rather disgusting to listen to adults if there are any, discuss the he said she said on going BS. Both sides borderline wanting a dictator to run the country if you listen closely. Again, 300 million of us and one dude wants to be President and one is sitting waiting to be reelected for 4 more years.

Blacks looking for a handout, whites looking for a handout, everyone wants 100k year salary, free medical care, and the poor expediter, well he or she just needs a run................ain't it so.

So after the smoke clears and the last toilet is flushed, it will all be over by November and let the games begin again................................
 
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aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Who riots in this country?

Probably in for some tense times the last 2 weeks before the election. Voter intimidation at the polls. Dead people voting in huge numbers. Television pundits warning of chaos and anarchy. Hope for a decisive victory that doesn't leave room for suggestions of chicanery.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
I dont understand all the worry the DNC seems to have because did they not the government give free right to vote to all Mexicans now, so whats the big deal. No ID, just show up somewhere and vote, thats it, its really over, so what is the big deal. Happy days are here again.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It is very complicated and FAR more basic than Democrat, Republican or party.
Frankly, that's a largely meaningless statement unless you explain it. I'm thoroughly confused as to how to could be FAR more basic than political party, yet at the same time be very complicated. In what way is it very complicated? In what way is it far more basic than political ideologies?

Both sides borderline wanting a dictator to run the country if you listen closely.
That's a very astute observation, I think, and goes to what Dreamer noted - that there is no more civilized discussion.

For decades, nearly the entire whole of this country, people have gotten though the good times and the bad times and come out mostly OK. During those times, disagreements with political ideologies can be tolerated and discussed intelligently, albeit still emotionally. But tolerance has always been the underlying issue, because with any of the ideologies it was always the same goal, just different ways to get there.

That's changed. The goals are no longer the same. On the right the goals are mainly to maintain the status quo, in fine conservative fashion, to make the corrections to problems the country has by using tried and true, mostly outdated methods, in the hopes that things will one day return to yesteryear. On the left, the goal is nothing short of a complete transformation of America into something that is very different than it ever has been, into some Utopian fantasy that cannot exist. Obama didn't invent this ideology, it's been bubbling in earnest for several years, but his election and the Democratic majority in Congress finally gave them the opportunity to begin.

Democrats honestly believe the world will be better off once America’s transformation is complete. A few years of grinding unemployment, weak economic growth, and towering national debt are small prices to pay, especially since Obama, his close political allies, and his top donors aren’t the ones paying it. But the Hope that was promised is gone. The notion that America is the land of opportunity has largely faded from the American populace. The possibility of prosperity has been replaced with despair and hopelessness, and as such people have little tolerance for things that aren't making it any better.

The Democrats feel the transformation of America is being thwarted at every opportunity by Republicans, so they will no longer tolerate a political ideology different than their own. Their very lives are now at stake. The Republicans believe the Democrats are literally destroying America, and their very lives are at stake, as well, so they will no longer tolerate opposing ideologies. Calm, rational and intelligent discussion is no longer possible when your very survival is at stake.

Both sides want their lives to improve, to have the possibility of being able to get ahead in life. At this point they just want to be able to survive. They each know the other's views and policies are not working, and will not work, and they will not change their own views in the hopeless notion that the other side will make life better, because they see no evidence that it will get better. They're sticking to what they know, and have no patience for anything that interferes with it.

As a result, they want their ideas to be forced onto the other side, whether they like it or not, and if it requires a dictator, so be it, as long as the dictator is on their side. That's how desperate people have become.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"Frankly, that's a largely meaningless statement unless you explain it. I'm thoroughly confused as to how to could be FAR more basic than political party, yet at the same time be very complicated. In what way is it very complicated? In what way is it far more basic than political ideologies? "



I posted what I did so as not to hijack Dale's thread.

More basic than a political party? Yes, since both of the main U.S. parties are are leftist it does not matter which one is elected. This has NOTHING to do with party.

I believe it is as basic as it can get. Some want to live free and some want to control. Some want the power to control their own lives and destiny, others want to be cared for or force care on others. Some want to live under our Constitution, those in power now seek to destroy it. Some want to live in a Free and Sovereign Nation and others not. Some want to retain the right to private property, including their wages, others wish to impose the slavery known as Marxism.

While it is basic, the fight for freedom, the issues and how they are viewed are complex;
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Personal view here.. is it just me, or is this the most violently opinionated campaign ever? I thought the last one was bad.. this one blows it away. Every where I look, people are ready to come to blows over their views. There is no more civilized discussion, "hey we disagree over specifics, but the goal is the same".. no it's "If you disagree with me, you hate me, you hate God, you hate blacks, you hate women". We've all heard the references to another civil war, and sad to say, just based on the comments among people I count as friends on both sides, Dem and Rep, I'd say it's not far away. But contrary to some, I don't think it's another North/South.. even Black/White... I think it could happen with Democrats and Republicans.

I have seen so many ready to literally fight, cursing each other out, for disagreeing over minor issues, let alone major ones. I really would not be surprised, whichever way the election goes, for violence to break out ... started by which ever side loses.

I am willling to bet that I am in the minority of EO posters on this issue. I am also willing to bet my life savings that nothing happens.

I've just never seen it like this in my lifetime. I really feel like this nation is on the edge of something terrible, whichever way it goes.
Dale

You must have been born after 1968. If a revolution didn't occur then, it never will.

1968 Democratic National Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I would agree lots of hot air does not a revolution make.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using EO Forums

Hot air comes from somewhere, like smoldering hot coals.

The '60's were just one early chapter in what has become a book about an evil take over by Marxists. They started too early. They have emerged and are now on the brink of completing their take over.

This may pass, I pray it does. IF it does not I do intend to honor my oath to defend our Constitution. As do many more like me. That IS why this administration considers veterans, and those who believe in OUR Constitution, a threat to their power. They FEAR those who have the courage of their convictions, something they lack. They would lie to cover what they are doing. IF they truly believed what they are doing would benefit the People that would shout it from the roof tops. They don't. Their ideas are SO evil that they can only use the force of law and the MIGHT of the government to affect their change.

Not everyone feels that way. Many would rather give in and accept rule rather than fight. Other's side with the Marxist. Many ignore the realities that face us, what ever they may be.

I pity those who would just, give in, and DESPISE the traitor who assists the Marxist.

They have drawn the line. It may well soon be time for all to decide which side of the line they will stand on.
 

Ragman

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Hot air comes from somewhere, like smoldering hot coals.

The '60's were just one early chapter in what has become a book about an evil take over by Marxists. They started too early. They have emerged and are now on the brink of completing their take over.

This may pass, I pray it does. IF it does not I do intend to honor my oath to defend our Constitution. As do many more like me. That IS why this administration considers veterans, and those who believe in OUR Constitution, a threat to their power. They FEAR those who have the courage of their convictions, something they lack. They would lie to cover what they are doing. IF they truly believed what they are doing would benefit the People that would shout it from the roof tops. They don't. Their ideas are SO evil that they can only use the force of law and the MIGHT of the government to affect their change.

Not everyone feels that way. Many would rather give in and accept rule rather than fight. Other's side with the Marxist. Many ignore the realities that face us, what ever they may be.

I pity those who would just, give in, and DESPISE the traitor who assists the Marxist.

They have drawn the line. It may well soon be time for all to decide which side of the line they will stand on.

Relax, have a "Hunker".

;)
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
It's difficult to believe we will see a so-called dictator come to power in the United States. That would be a pretty far stretch of the imagination. Should any President begin acting aggressively outside the bounds of our Constitution, remedies are in place to assure his or her ouster. Impeachment works. Or the fear of impeachment works. We have Presidents flirt with the boundaries of acceptable behavior; when this happens, Congress bares its fangs.

If we as a nation arrived at a point where the system of checks and balances fail, then all bets are off.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
I am willling to bet that I am in the minority of EO posters on this issue. I am also willing to bet my life savings that nothing happens.



You must have been born after 1968. If a revolution didn't occur then, it never will.

1968 Democratic National Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The riots at the DNC in 1968 was very different than what is simmering now. In 1968 it was mostly issue oriented (civil rights, cultural, and war protests) and directed at the Democrats, and directed at the single location of Chicago. There were certainly other demonstrations in the preceding year, but those were mainly dress rehearsals for Chicago. And there were other protests afterwards, but again they were mostly organized and highly focused on an issue.

What we're seeing now is very different. The Occupy Wall Street phenomenon is the humble beginnings of much worse and much more widespread to come. The single issue now is despair coupled with frustration and a complete loss of hope. And the target isn't one political party in one location, it's the government at large, and those who the government are in bed with - the insurance, financial and health care industries, and everything all of them touch, which is pretty much everything.

There won't be a "Chicago '68" incident this next time, there will be hundreds of OWS protests that turn violent, all at once, and it'll spread quickly. I'll be beaten down, but it'll rise back up, first with isolated incidents of "domestic terrorism" and then on larger scales. It may take years, but it'll happen. History practically demands that it happen. And I don't mean something on such a short time scale as US History.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
It's difficult to believe we will see a so-called dictator come to power in the United States. That would be a pretty far stretch of the imagination. Should any President begin acting aggressively outside the bounds of our Constitution, remedies are in place to assure his or her ouster. Impeachment works. Or the fear of impeachment works. We have Presidents flirt with the boundaries of acceptable behavior; when this happens, Congress bares its fangs.

If we as a nation arrived at a point where the system of checks and balances fail, then all bets are off.
All bets are off. Obama has already acted, with disturbing regularity, outside the bounds of the Constitution. He and his administration have reinterpreted existing laws, and issued Executive Orders to redefine the checks and balances. Bush had already started doing that, and Obama picked up where he left off and ran with it (which is why elections are so incredibly bad at ridding government abuses). But Obama has taken things to a whole new level. And Congress does nothing.

If his only actions outside the bounds of the Constitution was the targeting and killing of American citizens without any due process whatsoever, simply because he deems it necessary (euphemism for "because he wants to, and he's above the law"), that would be bad enough. But that's only the tip of the iceberg with him and his administration. He's out of control, on a global scale. He invaded a foreign sovereign nation to carry out an assassination. Granted, bin Laden needed killing, but can you imagine the response the American people, and our government, would have if the military of another country invaded the US to carry out an assassination?

I implore people to read this (CBS News). It's three pages, but by the time you get to the end of it you'll have a better idea of what I'm talking about.
The image Obama holds of himself, and the one his people have been aggressively promoting recently is of a righteous killer, ready to bloody his hands to smite "terrorists" and whistleblowers equally. If that sounds Biblical, it should. If it sounds full of unnerving pride, it should as well. If this is where a nation of laws ends up, you should be afraid.

The live link in the quoted text above goes to this (Assassin-in-Chief), another must-read that should clear things up, and scare the begeezus out of you.

Be assured of one thing: whichever candidate you choose at the polls in November, you aren’t just electing a president of the United States; you are also electing an assassin-in-chief. The last two presidents may not have been emperors or kings, but they -- and the vast national-security structure that continues to be built-up and institutionalized around the presidential self -- are certainly one of the nightmares the founding fathers of this country warned us against. They are one of the reasons those founders put significant war powers in the hands of Congress, which they knew would be a slow, recalcitrant, deliberative body.
 

EasyDoesIt

Active Expediter
Ronald Reagan sent A6 Intruders into Libya to assassinate Gadaffi and George W. Bush started a war to get to Saddam Hussein.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Ronald Reagan sent A6 Intruders into Libya to assassinate Gadaffi and George W. Bush started a war to get to Saddam Hussein.
Yes, I know. Those weren't very well received, either. And they were different than what Obama has done and is doing, although not by much. That's the problem, Obama has taken what previous presidents did, which were questionable already, and built upon it. This is a guy who promised Hope and Change and gave us more of the same, only worse. He's a guy who won the Nobel Peace Price in anticipation of what he was going to do, and he promptly became far worse than Bush in his war mongering. And the problem is, the next president, regardless of who that might be, will build upon what the previous presidents did, and do more of the same. It why "vote 'em out" and things will be all better is a pipe dream.
 

cubansammich

Not a Member
Hot air comes from somewhere, like smoldering hot coals.

The '60's were just one early chapter in what has become a book about an evil take over by Marxists. They started too early. They have emerged and are now on the brink of completing their take over.

This may pass, I pray it does. IF it does not I do intend to honor my oath to defend our Constitution. As do many more like me. That IS why this administration considers veterans, and those who believe in OUR Constitution, a threat to their power. They FEAR those who have the courage of their convictions, something they lack. They would lie to cover what they are doing. IF they truly believed what they are doing would benefit the People that would shout it from the roof tops. They don't. Their ideas are SO evil that they can only use the force of law and the MIGHT of the government to affect their change.

Not everyone feels that way. Many would rather give in and accept rule rather than fight. Other's side with the Marxist. Many ignore the realities that face us, what ever they may be.

I pity those who would just, give in, and DESPISE the traitor who assists the Marxist.

They have drawn the line. It may well soon be time for all to decide which side of the line they will stand on.

This post strikes me as indicative of exactly what the OP was speaking of.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
This post strikes me as indicative of exactly what the OP was speaking of.

Totally agree. [But I usually agree with you, which is one reason Moot asked if I AM you, lol. The other is that last time we met for lunch, I tried a Cuban sandwich, with some urging from Gottago, and really liked it]

We have become more 'us against them' in the past few years, and I'd lay a fair portion of blame on the Tea Party, who consider compromise to be unacceptable - the moderate members on both sides of the aisle can't budge them. Senator Olympia Snowe [a moderate and respected Republican] among others, cited it as a specific reason for her unexpected retirement, so it's much worse than the usual difference of opinions. The attitude of meeting in the middle is nowhere to be found, and nothing gets done. [Though maybe the hackers' threat to release Romney's tax returns will prompt Congress to get working on cybersecurity now, lol.]
Turtle's observations are also worrisome, and the reason more people aren't screaming bloody murder over it is that we're more concerned with things further down Maslow's hierarchy, like food, shelter, and jobs. We're worried about having enough money to retire before we drop from exhaustion at age 85, and we're worried about our kids and grandkids who can't afford higher education, and we're outraged that Romney's advice to them is to "borrow from your parents" because he helped put so many of those parents out of work in the first place. Wall Street doesn't create jobs - it creates nothing but profit, and everything else is irrelevant in the pursuit: laws, morals, ethics, civic responsibility - none of that matters on Wall Street.
Much as I worry about Obama's extension of his 'secret' powers, I'm more worried about Romney, who is Wall Street personified. If he wins, the middle class will continue the slide to low wage jobs, where retirement and college are luxuries we can't afford, and THAT'S what people are angry about. We used to be able to afford a middle class lifestyle based on hard work, but it's becoming more and more impossible, no matter how hard we work. And the rich really are getting richer [and have been for decades], and Romney/Ryan would not just continue that trend, but accelerate it. Mention it, though, and it's 'hate success!' and 'class warfare!' They keep insisting that business needs more tax breaks to create more jobs, when it's never worked before, they blame the unemployed for the entitlement mentality: how dare they expect the money they paid into social security be returned as promised, they blame people who've lost their homes on 'buying more house than they could afford' when the evidence points to banks' illegal and unethical practices, [not to mention loss of jobs and major medical expenses], they put people out of work and then call them 'gimme goobers', for cryin out loud!
There may very well be civil war, because people are just fed up with being accused of wanting Socialism when we point out that we're all in this together, and most of us are working harder than ever just to stay afloat. The fortunate few keep promising prosperity will trickle down if we just work harder, but it isn't working out that way.

This isn't the country I want my grandkids to inherit.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
An excellent example of the "us versus them" and having no tolerance for the other side or even willing to discuss it. You're already blaming Romney for something he hasn't even done, because just the mere thought of him being president is unacceptable, despite the fact the the current president has failed on an epic scale. Singling out the Tea Party to blame for not willing to comprise, and being the cause of our problems is like saying Fedex Custom Critical will make or break FedEx. If anything, the Tea Party is a symptom of our problems, not a cause.

The Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, they're both saying exactly the same thing: "We're mad as Hell and we're not gonna take it anymore." They're not willing to compromise with EITHER side because both sides are equally corrupt and equally dysfunctional.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
An excellent example of the "us versus them" and having no tolerance for the other side or even willing to discuss it. You're already blaming Romney for something he hasn't even done, because just the mere thought of him being president is unacceptable, despite the fact the the current president has failed on an epic scale. Singling out the Tea Party to blame for not willing to comprise, and being the cause of our problems is like saying Fedex Custom Critical will make or break FedEx. If anything, the Tea Party is a symptom of our problems, not a cause.

The Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, they're both saying exactly the same thing: "We're mad as Hell and we're not gonna take it anymore." They're not willing to compromise with EITHER side because both sides are equally corrupt and equally dysfunctional.

What did I blame Romney for, that he hasn't done? I made the best prediction of his future actions based upon his past, and his current campaign statements.
And I said a large part of the blame is due the Tea Party, who are not the same as OWS, as the TP is firmly ensconced in Congress, and quite upfront about their refusal to compromise.
[Proud of it, even.] Yes, it's a symptom, but symptoms sometimes need attention while the root cause is attacked, because it's the symptoms that make us miserable.
I completely agree that both parties have become corrupt and dysfunctional, and that Obama hasn't been the catalyst for the kind of change we wanted - but epic failure? I just don't see it as that - I think he tried to make some things better for all of us, and I can't see Romney in that role at all.
I also believe some people decided Obama would fail before he even took the oath of office, and did everything they could to see that it happened. Racism? I don't know - I hope not, but it's pretty clear that a LOT of folks weren't even willing to give him a chance and that's depressing and scary.
If Romney's elected and I'm wrong, I'll be happy about it, because my concern is for the whole country, not one side or the other.
 
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