Panther Refusal Stats

touble · Mar 16, 2009

Hello Everyone: I have been in expediting for 7 yrs and have seen many changes. Some good and others not so good. I have been with Panther since the Conway buy out and have found them to be a OK company. My wife and I run goverment loads plus general freight. The numbers on loaded miles, being stated by some I find amazing, and will say good job, but I dont think that most of Panther trucks come close to 3000 miles a week. With this said; from Panthers point of view; the 67% is a very good move. I do not like the way it was imposed, but it is here to stand. I am having a very hard time accepting this change, but I will give it a try. This is force dispatch in my opinion. I will see what the future brings and if this is good for all concern. I do not blame anyone, for this has become the new business practice. There will be many more changes in the trucking industries, by carriers, state and federal goverment. The writing is on the wall and it will be a long hard road in the next few years. For those of you that are below 67%, do what you can and work within new system. Should you find that this is not for you, then like me, maybe it is time to retire or find a new company. I wish you all the BEST.

RoadDawgg · Mar 16, 2009

Scuba, can you PM me about what you're talking about with the PARS stuff (and the getting back out of Canada), and the speed limiter? I'm not back in the company yet, but these sound like radically different things than I remember. Would rather have some familiarity with it before hearing it from Canada Dave (if he's still there).

No rush, just when you get a chance. or you can post it openly if you like that better.

Thanks,
Christopher

geo · Mar 16, 2009

i like the way our dispatch at ceva orf he , knows what we all like and most of the time he only ask ones he knows will take it

we come and go as we please, we have a sheet we keep by dispatcher desk, and we keep him info when we are going to take off as it helps him line work up for each day
and when we know he is going to take off
we all try to be off to as one of others that fills in isn't as great as he is

Desperado · Mar 16, 2009

I don't see how you can call this forced dispatch
what they are saying drivers with higher acceptance rates will get dispatched first
and i think that is fair
as warning i think we were sent out a message that stated we needed to stop asking panther what Will you give me extra to take this load
as far as parter ship isn't that a two way street and not just what panther will do for you but also what you'll do for panther
customers have freight to get moved so good and some bad
the reason panther puts on more and more trucks is to get the freight moved
and every time we turn down a load how many company's are ready to be johnny on the spot and take one of our customers away
think about it and stop saying if a can't make a grand off a load i won't do it

trkr75 · Mar 16, 2009

brandi323 said:
would you take this load. this is a actual load. 179 mt 179 loaded your rate. you are now pos 1 84% acceptance. load board says 1 per day and you will be third out because load brings you back to same board. remember this is a refusal. you make the call.[/QUOT

100 PERCENT YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why not I am on the one rate for all miles DH and Loaded 358 paid mile at my rate why wouldn't you take it? For a TT team that just gets the day started you have the chance when you get unloaded to get another load for overnight. And for TT solos from what I understand that is not to bad for a days work. as far as coming back to the same board. well ask for some extra money, and DH to a better board, on the other hand, you could turn it down and still be there when the other truck gets back and he heads somewhere else why not take the load then head somewhere else with 359 paid miles under you belt for the day?

Ken Billings
Truck 9276
[email protected]

trkr75 · Mar 16, 2009

Twizted1 said:
I realize most O/Os wont have a issue with keeping your acceptance rate above 67%,although what about when your slamed over and over again with 5 crap loads in chicago bcos others wont take it or you have to dh almost as much miles as the load pays and with no extras but your contracted rate?Also how about when your offered a load that picks up within a normal time frame and you cant drop it for a few days,with no extras offered for that other than your contracted rate?I feel these issues could cause someone in "the acceptable range" become less than 67% in one days time!!!!I couldnt count how many times I have had the above senarios offered to me,and I know others have also.These areas need a tweaking!!!! It shouldnt count!!!!!The driver council should amend the agreement with panther for these concerns.I just cant understand why,the current council would even agree on this action with out some amendments???Is it even possible now that you already agreed on the terms to change or amend it now?Also the box has been opened in my opinoin,watch for more unreasonable/not for the driver rules get implemented now!!!!

There are case by case "tweaks", but why do you think the council had any say in what this policy does or how it was put in place. We are not employed by panther nor do we work for them. They came to us and said by the way this is going in to affect what do you think? we had no say in it at all just told them we liked it or didn't that was all the say we had. As far as policy goes all we can do is make suggestions no more no less we have no say. We are here to take what the fleet thinks to them, and any ideas that are sent to us by the fleet we represent. Still to this date only two people (yes that includes you bernie48

) have contacted us. Have you contacted your Rep?

Ken Billings
Truck 9276
[email protected]

Dynamite 1 · Mar 16, 2009

i am not with panther so i will give my unbiased opinion from the outside looking in. every company out there will make changes that the concensus does not agree with. with that said, the problem as been hit on the head in the post about notice. with the number of mixed emotions of the contractors at panther on a daily basis, notice would have gone along way to pacify the ranks. this clearly does nothing to better a working relationship. that is what they tout, a partnership. communication does alot for driver retention. i understand that in this economy panther felt this was a business decision they had to make. in doing so what ability to make business decisions have they put a hinderance on for the contractor. we are not cherry pickers, but we do run a business and have criteria for accepting loads. we will even take below par if it is advantageous for us. but this rule would have some impact on running your business. admitt it or not all will be forced at some point, to take a load they generally would not due to this rule. with all said all do have to remember why panther felt a need to do so. it is also right that if the freight is not covered by them someone else will. NOTICE AND COMMUNICATION WOULD HAVE BEEN THE RESPECTABLE WAY TO HAVE APPROACHED THIS. TNT

trkr75 · Mar 16, 2009

Turtle said:
The only thing I don't know, and I'll have to find out, is whether the Acceptance Percentage is a pass-fail thing, above 67% you go to the top of the board (in POD time order), below 67% you drop to the bottom. Or is it a situation of the percentage itself determining the board position. Like, if you're first on a board at 95% and then someone with a 97% comes in, do you drop a spot to 2nd?

The way it was explained to us on the council is that order doesn't change not matter if you have 95% or 97%. If there are 3 guys there 88%, 98%, 55% (why is he still here anyways), and you at 100% the 55% guy would be at the bottom and you would be number three. This is given that they got empty in that order. Nothing changes other then the guy with the low acceptance rate drops to the bottom.

Ken Billings
Truck 9276
[email protected]

whitewolf · Mar 16, 2009

In my opinion every driver with less than 80 percent stop working for one day and let the good drivers take the freight.. And by the way maybe you know if something happened to you(car accident...) the insurance company get your income in the last 3 months and if you did not make money you'll get nothing even if you pay the same amount like every other driver. Why don't we get our own insurance? Is maybe cheaper and have more benefits.
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bernieh48 · Mar 17, 2009

See now the system finally updated as of midnight and our rate has finally been fixed. Back up to 84% and number one on the board. But until 2pm todsy nothing got fixed. It doesn't get fixed instantly like some on here have stated!

Tempest · Mar 17, 2009

This subject is the hottest topic I have seen!! I still dont get the problem. If your numbers are good then you have been running the same way you need to be running now. Many of us saw this coming months ago and planned for it. Those who didnt care to see or saw and didnt care are paying for it now. I have seen many posts in here where someone says "I get my rate or I dont move the freight" This rule was for you. We arent talking about the guy that turns down a load now and then. This rule doesnt affect that guy at all. This rule was for the guy turning down 1 outta 3 loads. If this isnt you, dont sweat it. As David (Bruno) and Davekc and others have said, it is business as usual. As for the 99% bumpin 95%, like Turtle said, this is not the case. Board position is only affected below 67%. If it were the other way I would always be among the "first out" crowde and not have time to bore you all in here

While at Panther today I had the chance to meet Karen in driver relations and she answered another question I saw in another thread about this subject. WHAT ABOUT DEADHEAD AND ITS EFFECT ON REFUSUALS She tells me that is the deadhead is over 40% it isnt counted as a refusal. While I think this is a bit high, atleast now I know there is a cap on the deadhead.

Scuba, I dont mean to sound as if I am grouping the whole council with the issues we have had. As I said in that post, I will try again if the need arises. Then we will see if it gets a glance

mjolnir131 · Mar 17, 2009

could you explain the 40% with a little more detail please and thank you.

aristotle · Mar 17, 2009

I've heard if you stand on one leg at 615am with your left eye closed and recite the lyrics to "Psilocybin Pony" while accompanied by an accordian ... maybe you won't get hit with a refusal. Of course you won't even know for sure for several days after the fact.

Can anyone else see the utter madness, the mental gymnastics employed in an attempt to skirt calling this process what it is?

Tempest · Mar 17, 2009

As I understood it, 200 mile deadhead for 500 mile run, but as I sit here thinking about that, I cant help but wonder if I am not getting the whole picture. There would have to be a minimum for that or 40 miles for 100 would be free of the refusal and I know that isnt right. I am here in seville and I think I will get it clarified and report back in the morning. I could just delete the post until I check it out but what the heck, I can take the slammin

Tempest · Mar 17, 2009

aristotle said:
I've heard if you stand on one leg at 615am with your left eye closed and recite the lyrics to "Psilocybin Pony" while accompanied by an accordian ... maybe you won't get hit with a refusal. Of course you won't even know for sure for several days after the fact.

Can anyone else see the utter madness, the mental gymnastics employed in an attempt to skirt calling this process what it is?

Wow I didnt even get finished typing. Your quick so early in the morning.

Twizted1 · Mar 17, 2009

Mr. Turtle,
1.If you re-read my post you will see,that I never said the council made the changes.The council just didnt do anything about it.2.Yes,I believe the larger carriers could stop the bidding wars and put the little guys out of buisness.(they wont its more proffitable to them this way)3.Whats your idea on fixing this problem?We all know, that when changes like this are done it takes time to get the bugs worked out and from what Ive seen it may take some time.The couple O/Os that had lower acceptance rates were in fact bumped everytime another truck came into that board with a higer acceptance rate.I sat there and watched it on their laptop with them.I personally bumped other trucks when I came onto a board.I know this bcos I checked how many trucks were there before I went to that board.
Blizzard,
SSSHHHHH now everbody is going to do that lol

Turtle said:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but what exactly are you basing that on? Is it the same knowledge that made you think that the Driver Council had something to do with this? The same knowledge that leads you to believe that larger carriers can bid high and still get the loads? The same confidence that lets you think that a snotload of independent contractors can show up at the Panther parking lot and start making demands without having their contracts ripped up in front of their eyes?

Juuuust asking... 'cause I just got off the phone with Driver Relations, and they tell me that it's a pass-fail thing, above 67% and you go to the top of the board, with board position based on POD time, and if you're 67% or below you drop to the bottom of the board, with the below-67% people also in order by POD time.

BTW, Blizzard, just so you know, if you go Avail Sleeping with a return time of more than 12 hours away, you're subject to being placed OOS (for abusing the Avail Sleeping thing) until you call in and aske to be placed back in-service. Same holds true for cargo vans who do the 34-hour restart macro who try to preserve their board position while they go home over the weekend. It just depends on how enterprising the 3rd shift guy is who looks at that report each night.

But yeah, you've got to know your areas of where and when different kinds of loads come out. Most of Michigan is Morning Mini Happy, as well. You've got to know how this is calculated, and what kind of an impact this can have on your numbers when you accept or refuse a load in the last week of a month. A refusal one week may look fine, but you may be paying for it a week later when the previous month's numbers drop off the back end.

Twizted1 · Mar 17, 2009

Scuba,
please take the time to re-read my posts and maybee you will get my point im trying to make?

Scuba said:
First less than 80 trucks are inpacted by this 2nd is a question. Do you not read all of the posts. The Drivers Council did not make any agreement with Panther this is something Panther told us they were doing. We didnt al Ken Billings post pointed out have anything to do with this. We weren't even asked what the % rate should be this is a Panther policy change that they made for business reasons.

Twizted1 · Mar 17, 2009

Yes,I know now that the council is nothing more than a forwarding of problems to panther.I was under the impression that the council actually had rights to implement changes and negotiate with panther on the drivers behaf.

trkr75 said:
There are case by case "tweaks", but why do you think the council had any say in what this policy does or how it was put in place. We are not employed by panther nor do we work for them. They came to us and said by the way this is going in to affect what do you think? we had no say in it at all just told them we liked it or didn't that was all the say we had. As far as policy goes all we can do is make suggestions no more no less we have no say. We are here to take what the fleet thinks to them, and any ideas that are sent to us by the fleet we represent. Still to this date only two people (yes that includes you bernie48 ) have contacted us. Have you contacted your Rep?

Ken Billings
Truck 9276
[email protected]

Turtle · Mar 17, 2009

Twizted1 said:
Mr. Turtle,
1.If you re-read my post you will see,that I never said the council made the changes.The council just didnt do anything about it.

Well, I never accused you of saying that the Council made the changes. I merely accused you of believing that they had something to do with this. Maybe you should read what you just quoted. In any case, here's what you said.
"The driver council should amend the agreement with panther for these concerns.I just cant understand why,the current council would even agree on this action with out some amendments???"
Doesn't say anything about them making the changes, only that you believe they agreed to them, meaning they had a hand in them being implemented, meaning they had something to do with them.

2.Yes,I believe the larger carriers could stop the bidding wars and put the little guys out of buisness.(they wont its more proffitable to them this way)

Do you really believe that the larger carriers could bid high, while the smaller carriers could bid low, and the customers would freely pay the higher bids from the larger carriers, whcih would somehow result in the smaller carriers going out of business? Really? I won't even address the statement inside the parenthesis, as it's utterly absurd.

3.Whats your idea on fixing this problem?

Is it a problem? I don't see it as a problem. It's more business as usual than anything. Unless, of course, you've been working the system as a cherry picker, then it's a problem. You'll simply have to figure out another way to work the system.

We all know, that when changes like this are done it takes time to get the bugs worked out and from what Ive seen it may take some time.The couple O/Os that had lower acceptance rates were in fact bumped everytime another truck came into that board with a higer acceptance rate.I sat there and watched it on their laptop with them.I personally bumped other trucks when I came onto a board.I know this bcos I checked how many trucks were there before I went to that board.

All I can tell you on that is, if I'm on a board sitting there with my current 93%, and someone comes in and bumps me down, if they don't have an actual First Out, my immediate reaction would be to call Driver Relations and find out what's going on, rather than sit there all day and monitor how far down the board I can go. But that's just me.

Moot · Mar 17, 2009

aristotle said:
... maybe you won't get hit with a refusal. Of course you won't even know for sure for several days after the fact.

If you have internet access you will know as soon as somebody else accepts the load whether or not you got hit with a refusal.

I mostly get my internet access where ever I can find a free wi-fi signal. If I refuse a less than rate load and can't verify if I got dinged with a refusal, I call Panther. They can tell you if it went down as "refusal" or a "refused less than rate load". And they will correct it. 9 times out of 10 if you refuse a "less than rate load" it will be counted as a "refusal". Call in and get it changed.

This really isn't a big deal! You just have to keep an eye on your acceptance rate. Prior to Panther implementing this change the only stats that concerned me were Safety and On Time stats. Often when I got hit with a flaky refusal I let it slide. It wasn't worth the time or effort to get it changed. Now it is!