Panther Refusal Stats
- Thread starter pjjjjj
- Start date
I realize most O/Os wont have a issue with keeping your acceptance rate above 67%,although what about when your slamed over and over again with 5 crap loads in chicago bcos others wont take it or you have to dh almost as much miles as the load pays and with no extras but your contracted rate?Also how about when your offered a load that picks up within a normal time frame and you cant drop it for a few days,with no extras offered for that other than your contracted rate?I feel these issues could cause someone in "the acceptable range" become less than 67% in one days time!!!!I couldnt count how many times I have had the above senarios offered to me,and I know others have also.These areas need a tweaking!!!! It shouldnt count!!!!!The driver council should amend the agreement with panther for these concerns.I just cant understand why,the current council would even agree on this action with out some amendments???Is it even possible now that you already agreed on the terms to change or amend it now?Also the box has been opened in my opinoin,watch for more unreasonable/not for the driver rules get implemented now!!!!
mjolnir131
Veteran Expediter
Wait! You just asked me if i wanted to make (after fuel)210 bucks(or more) plus the FSC for what 5 hours of work? that covers my fixed expenses for the day plus gives me 120-150 extra dollars? and the possibility of getting another run at the end of that load.(depending where it ended up?) my question is why would you turn it down no matter what your acceptance was?
Any carrier will change any rule in their favour anyhow whether you like it or not...They are looking out for themselves as you must look out for yourself and what serves you the best....should the two meet all the better....OR they'll just let you walk or run away....
Bottom line,Why are all these loads turned down?
Simple not enough money in it to do the run!!!
Why doesnt the carrier just charge more for the runs?
most will say " well the carrier wont get more buisness if they turn down a shorter load." "The customer will just go somewhere else that will do it"ETC, ETC, and ETC.The bigger companys have power to not do freight for cheap,but would rather have all out bidding wars on each other and take every load they can get there hands on cuz it doesnt even matter if they have a truck to run it!!!The large carriers will just broker it out to the many partner carriers they have on file.I have seen what some of the larger carriers have paid for a load that they wouldnt even budge on for there own O/Os for a bonus.I mean seriously why not throw a dog a bone and reward your O/Os for doing a crap load that other wise you would pay double or triple for with a partner carrier?It really makes no buisness sense to not use your own trucks!!!
Simple not enough money in it to do the run!!!
Why doesnt the carrier just charge more for the runs?
most will say " well the carrier wont get more buisness if they turn down a shorter load." "The customer will just go somewhere else that will do it"ETC, ETC, and ETC.The bigger companys have power to not do freight for cheap,but would rather have all out bidding wars on each other and take every load they can get there hands on cuz it doesnt even matter if they have a truck to run it!!!The large carriers will just broker it out to the many partner carriers they have on file.I have seen what some of the larger carriers have paid for a load that they wouldnt even budge on for there own O/Os for a bonus.I mean seriously why not throw a dog a bone and reward your O/Os for doing a crap load that other wise you would pay double or triple for with a partner carrier?It really makes no buisness sense to not use your own trucks!!!
You apparently just don't get how the council operates. The council has zero power to amend anything and zero say on policies. The council is allowed to bring things to the table and put them on the record as driver concerns. The powers that be then take all those action items and selectively choose which few will be even considered at the present time. Those chosen few are then looked at for who knows how long and some of them are implemented. The council probably takes at least 10 things to Panther for every one that is put into effect. It's all out of their hands once it's brought up. In a case like this the only thing the council would have been able to do is give an opinion on the idea. Panther would have retained 100% of the decision making.
mjolnir131
Veteran Expediter
79 miles of deadhead @$.50 mile plus the rate on 179 miles minus fuel on 358 miles plus what ever the FSC would be probably around 17-20 bucks but it might be higher, FSC that is
Wow,and I thought the council actually had some power to negotiate concerns like this.So whats the point of electing officials who can only forward compliants?Panther has already silenced our calls and now our only channel for recourse is a council that has no power?I say every driver,O/O and fleet owner that has issues just put the truck on hometime to seville,oh and go in person,flood the parking lot in seville untill things get a reasonable look at and get taken care of in a professional and timely manor!!!!!Maybee then after enough ppl get toghether things will get done?
Is this normally what you would get under your contract?
The problem is the vans dont get that much for DH if anything at all.I could see a straight truck having no problem doing that load,under those terms.
The problem is the vans dont get that much for DH if anything at all.I could see a straight truck having no problem doing that load,under those terms.
I don't see what everyone is so upset about. Nothing has really changed, The 67% load accept is only for loads that are quick pick up loads. Nothing else has changed, if a customer calls in and needs a load picked up in an hour then Panther is going to offer it to a truck with a higher load accept rate with hopes of getting the load covered fast thats all. On all other loads its the way it has always been. Yes, I do agree that trucks should have been given time to get their stats up.
It will all work out in the long run for everyone, you just have to look at the big picture. Roberts Express grew to what it is today because of the QUICK PICKUP. We are offering a service of being able to pick freight up within 90 minutes. This change is to get loads covered faster and to service the customers needs. FedEx Custom Critical has been the leader in this business for man years, why because of the great customer service they give.
Panther is doing this to get more freight in the long run. My hats off to them for trying to get us more freight. That is why they went from 15 minutes to 10 minutes to respond to a load offer. These changes are not to hurt us, they are to help us in the long run. This is the Emergency Freight business. When you need to go to the ER you don't call a taxi, no you call an ambulance to get you there faster. Same thing goes in this business. The customers want the freight picked up ASAP, not 3 hours later. If a line shuts down, or they are trying to meet a deadline for something. They call the fastest company that can pick it up.You think they call one company when they have a need? No,they call 3 maybe 4 to get a time of pickup. Who ever calls back and can give them the fastest pickup time gets the load.
Look at it like this. If you ordered pizza from a local shop and it took them two hours to bring you your pizza. Do you think your going to call them the next time. No your going to call someone who can bring it faster. The change was made to get freight picked up faster thats all.
It will all work out in the long run for everyone, you just have to look at the big picture. Roberts Express grew to what it is today because of the QUICK PICKUP. We are offering a service of being able to pick freight up within 90 minutes. This change is to get loads covered faster and to service the customers needs. FedEx Custom Critical has been the leader in this business for man years, why because of the great customer service they give.
Panther is doing this to get more freight in the long run. My hats off to them for trying to get us more freight. That is why they went from 15 minutes to 10 minutes to respond to a load offer. These changes are not to hurt us, they are to help us in the long run. This is the Emergency Freight business. When you need to go to the ER you don't call a taxi, no you call an ambulance to get you there faster. Same thing goes in this business. The customers want the freight picked up ASAP, not 3 hours later. If a line shuts down, or they are trying to meet a deadline for something. They call the fastest company that can pick it up.You think they call one company when they have a need? No,they call 3 maybe 4 to get a time of pickup. Who ever calls back and can give them the fastest pickup time gets the load.
Look at it like this. If you ordered pizza from a local shop and it took them two hours to bring you your pizza. Do you think your going to call them the next time. No your going to call someone who can bring it faster. The change was made to get freight picked up faster thats all.
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Im not sure if thats true by what I've seen in Chicago,The O/O was bumped everytime another truck with a higher acceptance came on the board.Please clarify the rules for us all so we can operate accordingly!!!!The 15 minute acceptance was a joke from the get go.Most could decide in less than 5 minutes for most offers.
179 deadhead, 179 loaded, plus loading and unloading time, all in 5 hours. More like 8, maybe 9 hours. And according to the post, you deadhead to get it and then bring it right back to the same one-a-day board that you're currently on, where you will likely be 3rd after you deliver, so you could end up sitting another day or two, or simply deadheading to another board, incurring additional costs either way. After fuel and fixed expenses, there's the other variable CPM factors of wear and tear on the tires if nothing else. In the end, you might be doing good to clear enough for dinner for a couple of days. What's your time worth?
There's just too much about that load that is unknown to be able to make an informed decision. Where to where being the main one, as all the post says is that it brings you back to the same one-a-day board, but not all one-a-day boards are the same. Some of these boards are huge, so where, geographically, you end up on that board can be a factor. You can still be 3rd out, but be significanly closer to the freight, and thus get loaded out again quickly. Or not.
Twizted: Calm down, take a pill, too many exclamation marks. Your heart and blood pressure will thank you.
Yeah, you could be slammed with 5 crappy loads in Chicago because others are turning them down. But then again, are you so sure they'll be turning them down now, what with all this Acceptance Rate feeding frenzy we have going on? They might not turn them down.
I have once turned down 9 loads in one day, all of the going from Detroit or thereabouts, to Windsor, or thereabouts. Now with the Acceptance being what it is, I might not turn down that many, instead, I might take one to get the mini under my belt, then take the money that will pay for the fuel to run with my First Out to another board. They've got one more load covered, I've got my First Out, I'm outta Dodge, everybody's happy.
If you're offered a load with as many deadhead miles as loaded, and they don't offer you something above what you're already contracted to do, then turn it down if you don't want it. They don't have to offer you anything above your contracted rate, ya know. If they do, it's because they want it covered bad enough to offer it. But I wouldn't expect it, since you're not contracted for any more than you're contracted for. If there is someone else available who will take it without anything extra, they'd be nuts to offer you something extra.
Same with baby sitting a load for a few days. If they need it picked up and baby sat bad enough, and there's no one else available or willing, they'll pay you for it. If you don't want to baby sit it for free, and they don't want to pay you for that time, turn it down. It's business as usual. It's also business as per your contract.
Yes, if someone is hit will all of these things at once, or in a relatively short period of time, it could very well send someone into the dog house. But, since you now know how the percentage is calculated, you can knowledgeably play by the rules. You'll be able to confidently weight the costs between dropping below 67% and taking a crap load, and decide which one will end up costing you more money.
"Also the box has been opened in my opinoin,watch for more unreasonable/not for the driver rules get implemented now!!!!"
To echo OVM, all of the rules at Panther, and I mean all of them, are there and in place to benefit Panther. Any rules that also benefit the drivers is merely a side effect. If it doesn't benefit Panther, it won't be there. I cannot stress this point strongly enough.
You may think that the carriers have the power to not haul cheap freight, but you'd be dead wrong in all but the special services freight. For regular freight, the shippers are eating this up right now. They have the control, the carriers are at their mercy. There is far more load capacity (trucks) than there are loads, so it's a shipper's market. Reputation and expectation of reliability play a part, but for the most part, the lowest bid is gonna get the load.
No matter what, there's always one scroungy little snot looking to get some fuel or meal money for the day, so he'll toss up some ridiculous 50 cents a mile bid for an expedite load that would normally go for 2 or 3 times that, and he'll get it. Even if his CPM is 75 cents. Doesn't matter, as long as it covers fuel and gives him a little to eat on for another day. He'll take the loss today, and worry about making up the difference on a load tomorrow. And he'll do that day after day. When he suddenly realizes that he doesn't even have the money to get an oil change when that time comes, or for anything else, he's out of the business, and there are 17 more waiting in line who are just as stupid as he is, and then they'll underbid until they go out of business. In the meantime, shippers are just lovin' it and the carriers are doing all they can to book whatever they can.
With the way the economy is right now, and the number of loads way, way down from a year ago, it's not a matter of being particularly choosy on the loads, it's a matter of getting a load of any kind at all. If you don't like a load, then turn it down, but don't be shocked if you aren't offered another one for a while, because there simply aren't that many loads to go around right now, especially for vans. The cherry picker has no shot at surviving in this enviroment. None. My advice is to take everything you can get.
Of course, my advice to any vans who may be on the same board as me is to cherry pick like crazy.
Bruno: It's not only for the rapid pickups. Acceptance Percentage has a direct bearing on actual board position. It used to be that they would dispatch around someone with a low Acceptance rate in order to get at a quick pickup. Now it's for all loads, quick pickup or not, with the proximity to the freight being the primary factor on the quick pickups.
The only thing I don't know, and I'll have to find out, is whether the Acceptance Percentage is a pass-fail thing, above 67% you go to the top of the board (in POD time order), below 67% you drop to the bottom. Or is it a situation of the percentage itself determining the board position. Like, if you're first on a board at 95% and then someone with a 97% comes in, do you drop a spot to 2nd?
There's just too much about that load that is unknown to be able to make an informed decision. Where to where being the main one, as all the post says is that it brings you back to the same one-a-day board, but not all one-a-day boards are the same. Some of these boards are huge, so where, geographically, you end up on that board can be a factor. You can still be 3rd out, but be significanly closer to the freight, and thus get loaded out again quickly. Or not.
Twizted: Calm down, take a pill, too many exclamation marks. Your heart and blood pressure will thank you.
Yeah, you could be slammed with 5 crappy loads in Chicago because others are turning them down. But then again, are you so sure they'll be turning them down now, what with all this Acceptance Rate feeding frenzy we have going on? They might not turn them down.
I have once turned down 9 loads in one day, all of the going from Detroit or thereabouts, to Windsor, or thereabouts. Now with the Acceptance being what it is, I might not turn down that many, instead, I might take one to get the mini under my belt, then take the money that will pay for the fuel to run with my First Out to another board. They've got one more load covered, I've got my First Out, I'm outta Dodge, everybody's happy.
If you're offered a load with as many deadhead miles as loaded, and they don't offer you something above what you're already contracted to do, then turn it down if you don't want it. They don't have to offer you anything above your contracted rate, ya know. If they do, it's because they want it covered bad enough to offer it. But I wouldn't expect it, since you're not contracted for any more than you're contracted for. If there is someone else available who will take it without anything extra, they'd be nuts to offer you something extra.
Same with baby sitting a load for a few days. If they need it picked up and baby sat bad enough, and there's no one else available or willing, they'll pay you for it. If you don't want to baby sit it for free, and they don't want to pay you for that time, turn it down. It's business as usual. It's also business as per your contract.
Yes, if someone is hit will all of these things at once, or in a relatively short period of time, it could very well send someone into the dog house. But, since you now know how the percentage is calculated, you can knowledgeably play by the rules. You'll be able to confidently weight the costs between dropping below 67% and taking a crap load, and decide which one will end up costing you more money.
"Also the box has been opened in my opinoin,watch for more unreasonable/not for the driver rules get implemented now!!!!"
To echo OVM, all of the rules at Panther, and I mean all of them, are there and in place to benefit Panther. Any rules that also benefit the drivers is merely a side effect. If it doesn't benefit Panther, it won't be there. I cannot stress this point strongly enough.
You may think that the carriers have the power to not haul cheap freight, but you'd be dead wrong in all but the special services freight. For regular freight, the shippers are eating this up right now. They have the control, the carriers are at their mercy. There is far more load capacity (trucks) than there are loads, so it's a shipper's market. Reputation and expectation of reliability play a part, but for the most part, the lowest bid is gonna get the load.
No matter what, there's always one scroungy little snot looking to get some fuel or meal money for the day, so he'll toss up some ridiculous 50 cents a mile bid for an expedite load that would normally go for 2 or 3 times that, and he'll get it. Even if his CPM is 75 cents. Doesn't matter, as long as it covers fuel and gives him a little to eat on for another day. He'll take the loss today, and worry about making up the difference on a load tomorrow. And he'll do that day after day. When he suddenly realizes that he doesn't even have the money to get an oil change when that time comes, or for anything else, he's out of the business, and there are 17 more waiting in line who are just as stupid as he is, and then they'll underbid until they go out of business. In the meantime, shippers are just lovin' it and the carriers are doing all they can to book whatever they can.
With the way the economy is right now, and the number of loads way, way down from a year ago, it's not a matter of being particularly choosy on the loads, it's a matter of getting a load of any kind at all. If you don't like a load, then turn it down, but don't be shocked if you aren't offered another one for a while, because there simply aren't that many loads to go around right now, especially for vans. The cherry picker has no shot at surviving in this enviroment. None. My advice is to take everything you can get.
Of course, my advice to any vans who may be on the same board as me is to cherry pick like crazy.
Bruno: It's not only for the rapid pickups. Acceptance Percentage has a direct bearing on actual board position. It used to be that they would dispatch around someone with a low Acceptance rate in order to get at a quick pickup. Now it's for all loads, quick pickup or not, with the proximity to the freight being the primary factor on the quick pickups.
The only thing I don't know, and I'll have to find out, is whether the Acceptance Percentage is a pass-fail thing, above 67% you go to the top of the board (in POD time order), below 67% you drop to the bottom. Or is it a situation of the percentage itself determining the board position. Like, if you're first on a board at 95% and then someone with a 97% comes in, do you drop a spot to 2nd?
BEARTRUCKER
Seasoned Expediter
We drove for Panther for 3 years before switching to FedEx. Their system makes better sense. True, you never really know if you'll "get the load", but at least you get offers! And as far as getting awakened...whats the diff between gettin woken up for a load that sucks or a load that is good and you do get it? We'd rather be woken up either way. If its a load that isn't the greates but gets us outf a hole - we'll say yes and then hope we get it.
I think its by the # itself
The only thing I don't know, and I'll have to find out, is whether the Acceptance Percentage is a pass-fail thing, above 67% you go to the top of the board (in POD time order), below 67% you drop to the bottom. Or is it a situation of the percentage itself determining the board position. Like, if you're first on a board at 95% and then someone with a 97% comes in, do you drop a spot to 2nd?[/QUOTE]
The only thing I don't know, and I'll have to find out, is whether the Acceptance Percentage is a pass-fail thing, above 67% you go to the top of the board (in POD time order), below 67% you drop to the bottom. Or is it a situation of the percentage itself determining the board position. Like, if you're first on a board at 95% and then someone with a 97% comes in, do you drop a spot to 2nd?[/QUOTE]
That answer makes no sense.
What #?
The 67% number itself, as in a pass-fail, above-or-below scenario? Or is the number "itself" the actual Acceptance percentage, and a 97% trumps a 92% for board position?
The 67% number itself, as in a pass-fail, above-or-below scenario? Or is the number "itself" the actual Acceptance percentage, and a 97% trumps a 92% for board position?
I think its by the actual number your acceptance is.Which in turn determines your board position.99% bumps a 97%
I think its by the actual number your acceptance is.Which in turn determines your board position.99% bumps a 97%
Panther has always given the load to whoever they want to give it to. I have gotten 900 mile loads over a guy who just got off a mini and activated his first out. We were both sitting right across the street from Timken Bearing Company. I'm pretty sure that there are "teams in cargo vans" out there who will get a lod before a solo guy gets it despite the fact that the solo driver might have a higher acceptance rating. The only way to make dispatching fair is to take the human element out of the equation and you and me both know that is never going to happen. So, to all my panther friends, I bid thee good luck!
Also, with this new way of dispatching, if you have a very good acceptance rate, you had better know when the crap runs come out of whichever area you are sitting at. If you are in Chicago, i'd advise you to go (available sleeping) from 8 PM until at least 12 noon the following day in order to avoid all of the minis that are handed out towards the early AM hours. Then when you are ready to come back into service at noon, you will be in a better position to trump all the other chumps for a nice load going to Texas or Georgia. Once again, know your areas people, this is going to be a very important component to your future success with Panther.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but what exactly are you basing that on? Is it the same knowledge that made you think that the Driver Council had something to do with this? The same knowledge that leads you to believe that larger carriers can bid high and still get the loads? The same confidence that lets you think that a snotload of independent contractors can show up at the Panther parking lot and start making demands without having their contracts ripped up in front of their eyes?
Juuuust asking... 'cause I just got off the phone with Driver Relations, and they tell me that it's a pass-fail thing, above 67% and you go to the top of the board, with board position based on POD time, and if you're 67% or below you drop to the bottom of the board, with the below-67% people also in order by POD time.
BTW, Blizzard, just so you know, if you go Avail Sleeping with a return time of more than 12 hours away, you're subject to being placed OOS (for abusing the Avail Sleeping thing) until you call in and aske to be placed back in-service. Same holds true for cargo vans who do the 34-hour restart macro who try to preserve their board position while they go home over the weekend. It just depends on how enterprising the 3rd shift guy is who looks at that report each night.
But yeah, you've got to know your areas of where and when different kinds of loads come out. Most of Michigan is Morning Mini Happy, as well. You've got to know how this is calculated, and what kind of an impact this can have on your numbers when you accept or refuse a load in the last week of a month. A refusal one week may look fine, but you may be paying for it a week later when the previous month's numbers drop off the back end.