Obama visits Normandy

[witness23]

If only Bush would've put it as eloquently as you just did Greg, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. And here we just thought it was about WMD's.

 

[layoutshooter]

Every President who has been forced to make the decision to go to war always does it for multiple reasons. The part about the WMD's was most likely the only part that the normal American might have been able to understand. Our education is so bad in teaching history, forgien affairs and military affairs our normal population just as no clue as to what is going on in real world. Our press is normally wrong at best and lying to us the rest of the time. That makes it easy for the slogan spouters and the US haters to be heard more than those who have real life experience in these matters. It is costing US lives and lives world wide. There is NO balance. Unless we get some soon it will cost us more than most in here could EVER imagine.

 

[witness23]

The part about the WMD's was most likely the only part that the normal American might have been able to understand.

Or except as a reason to go into a mistake of a war.

C'mon layout, you can come up with something better than that. For someone that has been "behind the scenes" like yourself, how can you justify the way Bush handled that whole situation. Just so you know before you start lecturing me about not knowing or experiancing military life I was in Desert Shield and Desert Storm while is in the Navy from '90-'94. That war was handled properly in my opinion and was necessary. Of all the things Bush could've come up with to tell the American people to got to war in Iraq he chooses WVD's? The problem with Bush was that he thought the "normal American" as you put it, was stupid. Well he underestimated the American public and look what happened. Just admit that the war was handled wrong. I'm glad we went into Iraq and got rid of Hussein, even though it was 11 years to late but the way it was done was ridiculous.

 

[layoutshooter]

Or except as a reason to go into a mistake of a war.

C'mon layout, you can come up with something better than that. For someone that has been "behind the scenes" like yourself, how can you justify the way Bush handled that whole situation. Just so you know before you start lecturing me about not knowing or experiancing military life I was in Desert Shield and Desert Storm while is in the Navy from '90-'94. That war was handled properly in my opinion and was necessary. Of all the things Bush could've come up with to tell the American people to got to war in Iraq he chooses WVD's? The problem with Bush was that he thought the "normal American" as you put it, was stupid. Well he underestimated the American public and look what happened. Just admit that the war was handled wrong. I'm glad we went into Iraq and got rid of Hussein, even though it was 11 years to late but the way it was done was ridiculous.

I would not pretend to lecture you. I have no experience in what you did. I too participated in Desert Shield and Desert Storm. They were the last major operations I took part in. You should remember that Clinton was well aware of Sadam's WMD's. As part of the agreement with Iraq after that war Sadam was to destroy all of those weapons AND submit to UN auditing of the process. That was never done. They were NOT ever accounted for. Those are all facts.

The American people truely do NOT understand what is going on. I have been asked some of the most STUPID questions you could imagine. I would not be surprised if you have not been asked some doozies too. I don't think that Bush thought that the American people were stupid, just un-educated in those matters.

As to the handling of the war, we are in agreement. We have NOT waged a "proper" war since WWII. Too many silly rules, too much holding back of power. When we go into a fight we should go into win. When we went into this one we went in with far too few troops, not enough equipment and no clear plan for an insurgency. We should have gone in with AT LEAST 500,000 combat troops minimum. We were short on air power as well. We should have went in prepared to garrison Iraq under a statute of forces agreement for AT LEAST 20 years, much like what was done in Germany and Japan at the end of WWII. We should have planned for using Iraq for a base of operations for the isolation of Iran. It would give us a good location to help Syria break away from Iran if they choose too.

You see, I am NOT a big Bush man as some in here think. I rated him with a "D" grade. I have little use for either political party or almost ALL of the candidates that ran last time. The ONLY one I was really interested in was Jerry Curry. Look him up. I have a feeling that you might have thought that he was worth a second look.

I have no quarrel with you at all. I would enjoy sitting and talking with you. I bet we could have a really fun time "lying" about everything we did!!!

A link for all those who need a little help remembering some of the facts concerning Iraq's WMD's.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

 

[greg334]

Witness,
The problem with the war you were in and the Iraq war has been media. Back in the 90's we didn't have this vile form of reporting as we do today, we didn't have the groups of 'Journalist' who were demanding access to secrets and we didn't have a press who was utterly hostile towards a president. I think it was CNN who was giving out the troop information while reporting on the operations. As much as this sounds like a defense of Bush, it isn't - he couldn't deal with a hostile press while conducting a war and I can not blame him for the mistakes that happened during his time in office with dis-information.

See the press hated Bush before he got into office, I remember some of the hate speech people like Dan Rather spoke before his first term - remember here is a guy who threw his journalistic integrity out the window and CBS should have boot him out for his unethical behavior with those falsified documents. But alas Rather is a perfect example of the new press and how bad it really is, even after it was so long ago.

 

[layoutshooter]

My son was pointing out to me that there has been NO LIVE Medal of Honor recipients for the entire time we have been in Iraq and Afganistan. He has told me that there have only been 5 total for the entire time. He was also telling me that there have been MANY "downgrades" of commendations. He informs me that the actions taken in MOST cases are incorrect and appear to be politically motivated. He says moral is being hurt and that MANY are getting VERY angry about it. It seems that MANY vow to make sure that they don't end up being treated as badly as the VietNam Era vets did. Just the view from one who has been there and is returning early next month.

 

[greg334]

This award has not been awarded to a live person since 1972.

 

[layoutshooter]

How is that possible and the numbers on all Valor Medals continue to go down. This smells worse that a 4 day old dead frog.

 

[greg334]

How is that possible and the numbers on all Valor Medals continue to go down. This smells worse that a 4 day old dead frog.

it's simple, people are dumb down enough that they don't get integrity, valor or sacrifice. I talked to a few new soldiers and can't believed why they join, it wasn't to defend the country.

 

[layoutshooter]

There is still the same kind of valor, courage, and integrity in our forces as there has always been. While I agree that many join for silly reasons and NOT to defend us the REAL soldier still exsists and they are getting MAD at the lack of respect that they get. I am with them. They are tired of the lies in the press. So am I. I see the dis-respect in here often. I see the same support of our enemy and hatred of our troops just like during the Cold War. Frankly, there is a very large percentage of people in this country that are just NOT worth their efforts.

 

[greg334]

well I agree, I wasn't saying there isn't. One I know who is back in Iraq is one who I can say has a lot of valor.

But see there is a problem, most of the military seems to be having an issue with insubordination during boot as documented by BBC and other news organizations. They kick a lot of people out because of it and there has been claims of racism and sexism because of what the boots are asked to do. I know one that didn't get her job was not to question anyone but do as she was told. She was given leave to reevaluate her decision to join and I saw her when I was over her parents house. Her dad was beside himself on the issue and when we sat down to eat, we both mocked her and her inability to move beyond being a princess. I think it worked, she went back and went on to be assigned in SC.

 

[layoutshooter]

While I know that there are many fine young men and women out there today there are just as many, or more, who are SO spoiled, SO childish and SO irresponsible that the ONLY thing that might help them is a good swift kick in the butt!! It is something that was missing in their lives for most of their lives!! One of the results of NOT being raised by parents and NOT having a REAL man in their lives to TEACH them.

 

[chefdennis]

Along with the mistakes of bush and the constant distain by the media and the TOE that were put on our troops by the liberal dems who have no stomach for war our troops had their hands tied from day one in iraq.

BUT, with all that has happened it is now getting a bit more ignorant...by barrys order, our troops must now "mirandize" all battlefield detainees!!!!

We are giving terrorist captured on foreign battlefields all legal rights within our court system....


Not Right

The Obama administration grants Miranda rights to detainees in Afghanistan.

by Stephen F. Hayes
06/10/2009 2:05:00 PM
Not Right

When 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was captured on March 1, 2003, he was not cooperative. "I'll talk to you guys after I get to New York and see my lawyer," he said, according to former CIA Director George Tenet.

Of course, KSM did not get a lawyer until months later, after his interrogation was completed, and Tenet says that the information the CIA obtained from him disrupted plots and saved lives. "I believe none of these successes would have happened if we had had to treat KSM like a white-collar criminal -- read him his Miranda rights and get him a lawyer who surely would have insisted that his client simply shut up," Tenet wrote in his memoirs.

If Tenet is right, it's a good thing KSM was captured before Barack Obama became president. For, the Obama Justice Department has quietly ordered FBI agents to read Miranda rights to high value detainees captured and held at U.S. detention facilities in Afghanistan, according a senior Republican on the House Intelligence Committee. "The administration has decided to change the focus to law enforcement. Here's the problem. You have foreign fighters who are targeting US troops today -- foreign fighters who go to another country to kill Americans. We capture them and they're reading them their rights -- Mirandizing these foreign fighters," says Representative Mike Rogers, who recently met with military, intelligence and law enforcement officials on a fact-finding trip to Afghanistan.

Rogers, a
former FBI special agent and U.S. Army officer, says the Obama administration has not briefed Congress on the new policy. "I was a little surprised to find it taking place when I showed up because we hadn't been briefed on it, I didn't know about it. We're still trying to get to the bottom of it, but it is clearly a part of this new global justice initiative."

That effort, which elevates the FBI and other law enforcement agencies and diminishes the role of intelligence and military officials, was described in a May 28 Los Angeles Times article.


The FBI and Justice Department plan to significantly expand their role in global counter-terrorism operations, part of a U.S. policy shift that will replace a CIA-dominated system of clandestine detentions and interrogations with one built around transparent investigations and prosecutions.

Under the "global justice" initiative, which has been in the works for several months, FBI agents will have a central role in overseas counter-terrorism cases. They will expand their questioning of suspects and evidence-gathering to try to ensure that criminal prosecutions are an option, officials familiar with the effort said.


Thanks in part to the popularity of law and order television shows and movies, many Americans are familiar with the Miranda warning -- so named because of the landmark 1966 Supreme Court case Miranda v. Arizona that required police officers and other law enforcement officials to advise suspected criminals of their rights.


You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense.

 

[layoutshooter]

Along with the mistakes of bush and the constant distain by the media and the TOE that were put on our troops by the liberal dems who have no stomach for war our troops had their hands tied from day one in iraq.

BUT, with all that has happened it is now getting a bit more ignorant...by barrys order, our troops must now "mirandize" all battlefield detainees!!!!

We are giving terrorist captured on foreign battlefields all legal rights within our court system....


Not Right

The Obama administration grants Miranda rights to detainees in Afghanistan.

by Stephen F. Hayes
06/10/2009 2:05:00 PM
Not Right

Obama is a total PUTZ, Coward and traitor. Other than that he sucks.

 

[greg334]

Layout, The princess factor is just that, kids who were brought up to be prince and princess's in their own mind. I can't wait to see what happens if this economy goes south, I mean really south like depression.

Chef, if we had balance in congress, they issue could be stopped but again these guys want to treat terrorism as a crime and not a military action.

Hey is doug still around?

 

[chefdennis]

LOL, doug hasn't posted since he went nuts and went off on me!! And he totally ignored the post on barry coming to the rescue of the abortion drs with US Marshals and did nothing when the Military Recruiter was killed by an american muslum convert....can spin that so they stay away

 

[layoutshooter]

That is correct Greg, that is what happens when a parent/parents put more emphisis on careers and material goods and buy off their kids to salve their own souls. "STUFF" is often put in front of raising kids these days. Fewer and fewer intact families contributes. Not teaching things like respect, courtisy, manners and responsibiltiy really hurts kids in the long run. It seems that many so-called parents today have kids so that they can have a glorified pet.

 

[greg334]

Oh well Chef, I liked doug, he balanced things out and gave me more material to use. I know who he is from his pizza days, I bet he won't remember me but I remember him....

Layout, my wife's nephew is a classic spoiled brat, actually both are. He goes to Michigan Tech in Houghton, and last year he was tooling around in his car that his parents gave him. It snowed there a few days before, but from what my cousins say they don't get the snow up there like they used to. Well he took a turn too quick and ended up getting stuck. He can't get out the driver door, he panics and then he calls his ma down in your neck of the state. He wants her to help him get out of the car, and have her arrange for his car to get towed out. She had to tell him to climb out the window and call AAA. By the way he was 20 when this happened. His brother is a real gem too...

 

[layoutshooter]

LOL!!! A prime example!! Kid needs to get kicked out of school and spend a year or two digging ditches!! THEN basic training!!

 

[greg334]

My dad was drafted during a time when it wasn't all that good. He told me a long time ago that the draft actually serves a real purpose with a lot of people, they have no direction and think they have the freedom to do what ever they want. It wasn't about preparing the draftee for war but for life.

It is funny though the last few times a draft came up, it was democrats who proposed it. Now Obama is presenting us with his form of Brown Shirt organization in the guise of community service, something like Mussolini did in the late 20s. When you think about it, we used to do this when we were not offered money or incentives but now there is an issue of who does someone actually have an obligation to when you "volunteer", Obama, the nation or one's self-interest?