Obama visits Normandy

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
On a scale of 1-10 Obama hit about 9 in his response to the killing of the abortion doctor. He did make a statement about the same day murder of the military recruiter. Compared to his abortionist statement it was around 4-5 in the intensity of his repudiation of the killing. That says HUGE amounts about his character.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You can post all you want. I get upset when you ridicule what many have died for. Your ideas on what happened during the Cold War, VietNam, and that entire part of history are wrong. I am sorry if you choose not to believe those with experince but that is what it is. Again you have pre-concieved ideas about what happened in the Middle East and when this mess started.

Most of you mis-conceptions are due to a lack of experience and you are entitled to believe what ever you want. It is just amazing that when given a chance to learn from those who were there, and there are many, you choose to not even listen. That is a shame. Prospectives from live participants can shed light on things. You still might not agree but you might have a better understanding of the other side of the coin.

IF you were ever interested in learning about things that were NEVER really reported, mis-reported and lied about I would be happpy to give you a view based on some VERY nasty realities. NOTHING is as it was reported. The time frames go back 50-60 years or MORE. There are no nice neat 4 or 8 years blocks neatly tied up by administrations. For the most part these events take place IN SPITE of the fact that the U.S. exsists, not because of it.

I was NOT your enemy, and neither were my cohorts, what ever that means. We had a job to do. You might not like it, like the need for it or understand it, but it HAD to be done. Good people are doing that job now.

You were failed by a very biased education system. World history was NOT really taught, that was in spades starting around 1948. That is a shame. Well over 150,000 DIED to defend us from what was going on. Many more will die in the near future. It is my belief that will happen because Obama has no clue, from my experience and perspective, so far I am right. I hope it changes. I don't think it will.

I do NOT support either party, I was NO fan of Bush. I have less use for Obama. I was interested in Jerry Curry. He never stood a chance. He WAS qualified. He had real guts. Read his story. How he overcame racial problems in the Army going from Pvt E1 to 2 star general, WITHOUT the benifit of lawsuits OR affimitive action.

Any who, I will try to be more civil and hope that you can accept that. Please, do me a favor, I did NOT lie about my past and am proud of my accomplishments. Remember that more than 30 of my friends DIED proctecting this Nation AND before you think about ridiculing troops remember my son deployes in 5 weeks and I AM a father. That would not sit well.
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
I guess you are talking to me Layout, Good luck to your son. I have never ridiculed our troops and never would.

I coached baseball in Hazel Park for 7 years (sorry missed that in my bio to you) I had a fine young player he thought he was a shortstop but was a really good centerfielder, this kid was a exceptional athelete in High School as well and joined the military after graduation. He was shot in the shoulder in Iraq and now he only has the use of 1 arm.

These stories are countless and yes I applaud Isaac's service but I am appauled that he was sent there in the first place.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I guess you are talking to me Layout, Good luck to your son. I have never ridiculed our troops and never would.

I coached baseball in Hazel Park for 7 years (sorry missed that in my bio to you) I had a fine young player he thought he was a shortstop but was a really good centerfielder, this kid was a exceptional athelete in High School as well and joined the military after graduation. He was shot in the shoulder in Iraq and now he only has the use of 1 arm.

These stories are countless and yes I applaud Isaac's service but I am appauled that he was sent there in the first place.

Yes I was Doug,


He did a very needed job. I could prove that to you and while his loss is sad as with all such losses it was a needed sacrifice. I am sorry that you cannot see that. That IS far more to it than you can see.

Maybe you don't mean to ridicule our troops but there have been times that, at least from my point of reference, you did. I know that I often "fire from the hip". You might want to sometimes slow down and think a bit more. You have, most likely not intentional, said some things that were very hurtful to the memories of some dear freinds. They made the ultimate sacrifice and I am a bit touchy about such thiings.

Try to keep that in mind. We come from different worlds. Mine was very mean, cruel and nasty. That was the good parts. I lived in a different reality.
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
There may have been a time when going to Iraq would have been neccessary. It was not when we already in a war with Afghanistan we went in under false wmd reports. They were not a threat to us had not attacked us and did not have the capabilities to hurt us.

It was a mistake, a mistake that may eventually turn out to be in the best interest of the world but a mistake just the same. We are not the world police. It costs us thousands of lives and 10 of billions or is it hundreds of billions now and our standing in the world spotlight. It also helped to project us as an evil superpower and helped the recruitment of terrorists. We attacked a nation unprovoked without any reason, other than it was what W' wanted to do.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Doug, if you were privy to all the intel reports on Iraq prior to our decision to remove Saddam and actually look for wmd's rather than pretend to look like the blue hats did then by all means tell us how we went in knowing it was the wrong decision. I'm a regular guy so I don't have 100% intel access. The portion I did have access to legitimately called for one decision only, the one we followed. Take a really deep breath.. deeper.. deeper.. and hold it a few seconds then release it very very slowly.

Now, there were multiple international intelligence agencies verifying the existence of wmd's. There were even a few of the blue hats verifying their existence. We actually were one of the later attendees at the party. Don't take my word for it though. The Senate, which gets a lot more intel than I do, thought the same thing and among those saying yes we need to do this were Biden, Clinton, Daschle, Dodd, Edwards, Feinstein, Kerry, Reid, Schumer, Specter and 20 other Democrats.

I don't expect a tiny little thing like those facts and the truth to deter you from your ongoing harangue of Bush and the decision to do the right thing with Iraq. I just wanted it on the record for those who actually do care about the truth.

We now return to your regularly scheduled denials and Bush bashings.
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
The intel was wrong, Bush went on TV and got the country behind him and the Senate gave him the power to strike. Someone should have made sure the intel was credible before the troops were sent in. Since W. was the man who sent them the responsibility of knowing for sure that they were a threat falls on him.

We had no justification to attack a nation which had done nothing to provoke it.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Actually, Doug, the UN sanctioned it, so there's your justification. Our intel was wrong, or so it seems, but so was the intel presented to the UN from people who don't like us much. We do know, for sure, that he had WMD's at one point. We know that because he bought them from us.

In any case, we invaded Iraq for one reason and one reason only, because Saddam tried to kill the president's daddy. He should have said that right up front.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Doug, do you believe the President researches and verifies every piece of information from every intel source or is that done to the best of their ability by numerous people whose job description includes that function? What about all the research on health care programs and facilities? What about global climate change? Does the president research and confirm all data on all things? Or do you just make yourself look silly with statements like you last one as a diversion to the boredom of the evening? Yes, the president presented the information we had based on the most credible sources we had and based on that 30 Senate Democrats told him to proceed. Come on Doug, make yourself look reasonable for a change rather than just overwhelmed with hate and unable to think or see clearly due to the overpowering hatred.
 

mjolnir131

Veteran Expediter
no the Intel appears to have been dead on the UNs on reports stat they had inspectors fallowing WMD hours before our attack started and where detained by the Iraq army it's on the UN web page if you want to look it up.

The problem and issue is not did they have them but where did they go. and the peace at all cost anti American anti war movement has obscured this issue which will end up costing more lives down the road .. way to go all you jr. ghondi's
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Doug, reading your most recent posts makes it clear you are under extreme emotional duress. Take a few days off and pull yourself together. No need to jeopardize your physical health or emotional well-being.
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
Doug, reading your most recent posts makes it clear you are under extreme emotional duress. Take a few days off and pull yourself together. No need to jeopardize your physical health or emotional well-being.

No I am fine, just because I lashed out at Chef?
He basically called me a liar and I reacted to it.

You folks can believe what you will.
Most people know that we went into Iraq because that is what W. wanted from day 1.

He picked an awful time to do it and it stretched our troops thin at the worst possible time.

He was not acting in our Countries best interest, he had a personal vendetta.

The cost -thousands of troops lives, our standing in the world, a recruiting opportunity for terrorists and boatloads of cash.

He will go down in history as an inneffective war monger who left the country in ruins.

W's legacy a sad story indeed.
 

aristotle

Veteran Expediter
Glad to hear you are well.

I agree that George W.'s legacy is a sad one. Singlehandedly, he set back the conservative movement 10 or 20 years. He hoodwinked tens of millions of us who beleived in him. Bush campaigned as a conservative, but governed as a liberal. Truth be told, he was never one of us and neither was his father. The New World Order is upon us thanks to Bush, Clinton, Bush and finally, Obama.

Real conservatives have no home in American politics as things stand right now. We can rally around Sarah Palin in 2012 and get trounced in a national election. That's too bad because she's as real as it gets.
 

OntarioVanMan

Retired Expediter
Owner/Operator
Glad to hear you are well.

I agree that George W.'s legacy is a sad one. Singlehandedly, he set back the conservative movement 10 or 20 years. He hoodwinked tens of millions of us who beleived in him. Bush campaigned as a conservative, but governed as a liberal. Truth be told, he was never one of us and neither was his father. The New World Order is upon us thanks to Bush, Clinton, Bush and finally, Obama.

Real conservatives have no home in American politics as things stand right now. We can rally around Sarah Palin in 2012 and get trounced in a national election. That's too bad because she's as real as it gets.


If the GOP put their full weight behind Palin, she might have a chance....They bailed on McCain and left him hanging...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Doug, our intell was NOT wrong. We knew way back during Clinton that there were WMD's in Iraq. You can go back and look up his speach on that. We have found a rather large amount of WMD's, blister and nerve agent warheads not to mention the 500 metric tons of "yellow cake"

You must at least try to understand how things work in intell. There is almost NEVER solid, cold hard proof. If we waited for that we would all be dead by now. We are forced to act on the best qualified guess.

There are thousands of Saddam's warheads missing that are most likely in Syria. They still need to be found, accounted for and destroyed. Most of the world has been doing away with these types of weapons, slowly but surely. We have, the Russians have. We do not want to return to a arms race.

The problem was caused by the UN. Thier unwillingness to do thier job caused this entire mess. THEY were responsible for NOT keeping track of the destructions of those weapons as required by the treaty that was in place after the first Gulf war. They did not do that. They did not do that after 13 years. Weakness breeds contempt.
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
OK, I admit it. Doug is right. Bush wanted to go to Iraq. Bush fabricated evidence of wmd's. Bush is SO smart he manipulated thousands of intelligence assets around the world. Bush is SO smart he manipulated hundreds of legislators around the world. Bush is SO smart he manipulated dozens of world leaders. Bush is SO smart that he imagined, envisioned, planned and brought to fruition the entire thing. Doug, you win. You finally ranted and raved and repeated the same line enough times to convince me you know what you are talking about and that Bush single handedly orchestrated the whole Iraq thing. It is him after all and it is all on him after all.
 

DougTravels

Not a Member
OK, I admit it. Doug is right. Bush wanted to go to Iraq. Bush fabricated evidence of wmd's. Bush is SO smart he manipulated thousands of intelligence assets around the world. Bush is SO smart he manipulated hundreds of legislators around the world. Bush is SO smart he manipulated dozens of world leaders. Bush is SO smart that he imagined, envisioned, planned and brought to fruition the entire thing. Doug, you win. You finally ranted and raved and repeated the same line enough times to convince me you know what you are talking about and that Bush single handedly orchestrated the whole Iraq thing. It is him after all and it is all on him after all.

Finally someone gets it! I really don't think he was all that smart though he had alot of help from others including Cheney, a pretty smart guy, but an evil war profiteer.:D
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
It seems that my trying to carry on a honest intelligent discussion is a waste of my time. Too much silly stuff. Time will prove me right. Too bad, that is NOT a good thing.
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
Doug,

I know you never been anywhere in your life to understand what others live like, especially under dictators and rulers who don't value human life, or any life for that matter. It doesn't amaze me that most of the people in the US don't get that there are worst ways to live and that others would like nothing but to kill you for what you represent.

I'm going to yank your chain a bit because today is my anniversary of my first trip to a war zone and I am bothered by the shear idiotic comments being made here. I am not just directing it to you, but to others too so don't take it really deeply personal.

I know you lack the real experience some of us have but you can't continue to repeat the same old cr*p that you read on Huffington post or where ever unless you come to understand what it really means.

I feel you don't know what living under Saddam was like or care to know, all you see is a fallacy of things you are told is only the truth. I think if you even talked to one person who lived and suffered under Saddam, you wouldn't be complaining about war profiteers or alleged lying about WMDs.

If you knew the military and the government, you would understand that our country doesn't mobilize to war easily, it takes a lot to get to the point where we are actually deploying and decisions are checked and double checked behind the scenes. It took an act of congress to get the war in Iraq started, these people in congress didn't just listen to Bush and Cheney but were privy to all of the intel that we are NOT privy to. we will never see most of it, and it is the media who would very much want to push our country into chaos by having our secrets exposed under the guise of our right to know, which doesn't exist when our country is at stake.

Bush did the right thing, regardless what you say, he did what the policy of the country was, set by Clinton and took down a dictator. He took the responsibility to free an oppressed country and did it in record time. You don't hear the successes in Iraq, you only repeat the 4000 plus lives that were lost but it really comes down to this; when you mock their mission, you mock those 4000 plus lives. To put this in perspective, we lost over 19,000 men between December 16, 1944 and January 25, 1945 and only stopped en enemy, we didn't topple a government or free an oppressed people but just stood our ground.

You should be d*mn proud of what we did there and if you are not, then you have to tell the 1,250,000 people who lost husbands, wives and children under that dictator, Saddam that they were not worth it. You have to tell the villagers who were from 4000 villages which were killed by Saddam in Al-Anfal campaign. You have to tell the 75,000 people who were gassed with Sarin by Saddam that their lives were worthless. AND those 4000 plus people in the miltary and supporting the operation, tell them they didn't do a thing.

Don't think for a second that this guy could not do harm to you or I, you underestimate a leader of a country who has all kinds of resources at his disposal. If some college student can extract Sarin from Castor Beans in his basement or school lab, don't you think that a guy with a few billion in cash can do the same thing but on a larger scale?
 
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greg334

Veteran Expediter
I was just reminded that that last post was not finished.

So here goes part II.

There are other reasons why we are there, why we decided to go to war in Iraq. Some of it has to do with Iran and pushing them to a revolution and some of it has to do with the region that I don't ever expect you or Tallcal to ever understand. I honestly think that protesting and complaining takes away from the truth of progress and freedom so I never expect anyone that protests a war to understand it.

I said this before in another post, the people of Iran are watching what is going on, even though the government is sending over terrorist (they are no insurgents) to cause chaos, the people matter. They see the freedoms (freedoms defined by Iraqis not Americans) and they see the prosperity. They are closely tied to the Kurds and they know that the Kurdish controlled part of Iraq is booming with success stories, just the tourism alone outranks Michigan's.

The other part of this is what it does in the region, Syria and other countries lost a lot of influence in Iraq to the point that they can not change the Iraqis mind of who to follow anymore. This is not because we forced ourselves onto the Iraqis but we allowed them to make the decisions about their country, something Syria and the others felt they should be doing instead.

There that was part II.....
 
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