Obama Didn't Win - ROMNEY LOST!

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
And here's why (emphasis mine):
As were Herbert Hoover, Alf Landon, Wendell Willkie, Thomas E. Dewey, Gerald R. Ford, George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole and John McCain. Making Mitt Romney a historical asterisk as the tenth moderate GOP nominee (Dewey was nominated twice) to lose the White House.

...Romney received some 3 million Republican votes LESS than Moderate Nominee Number 9 -- John McCain in 2008.

Reasonable people can be expected to raise the point of just when that old joke attributed to Einstein will come clear. You know the one. That the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. For Republicans, this translates as yet again nominating a moderate who is said to "move to the center," "can attract women," "get the youth vote" and "get the minority vote."

The strategy has failed repeatedly for some 80 years. Say again… 80 years!!!!! And yet there are still those out there who insist on doing the same thing over -- and over and over and over -- again.

At the heart of the Romney campaign -- of two Romney presidential campaigns in 2008 and 2012 -- was not principle but biography. And as day follows night yet another Democrat was available to take that biography, turn it upside down, inside out and shred it. In a blink the man with the career as a successful businessman became the man in the top hat from the Monopoly game...

Jeffrey Lord: The American Spectator articles and blog posts.

Having read Lord's excellent article, I find it absolutely flabbergasting that fewer Republicans would vote for Romney than voted for a lousy candidate like John McCain - especially considering that this time they had Obama's awful record teed up as a primary issue. At the core, it appears that many conservatives and Republicans were fed up with yet another moderate Republican who ran a mediocre campaign conducted by his "establishment" operatives. Laura Ingraham mentioned on Tues night that the GOP needs a serious makeover after losing to a candidate like Obama, and she's exactly right.
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
Laura Ingraham mentioned on Tues night that the GOP needs a serious makeover after losing to a candidate like Obama, and she's exactly right.


Amen brother!
 

mjmsprt40

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
I couldn't have said it better. Probably not as well. It's exactly what I've been thinking though.

I voted for Romney-- in fact, I voted a straight Republican ticket-- but it comes as no surprise that Romney lost. I marvel at the people who say the Republicans should be more like the Democrats. Do we need two Democrat parties? Are we really prepared to say that Conservatives no longer have a place at America's political table? If so, then I think we can guarantee Republican losses for the foreseeable future. Why vote for the almost-a-Democrat when you can vote for the real thing?
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
I think any conservative party will only have a chance at the state and local level. Changing demographics just don't bode well for the libertarian or republican party. Probably most independants as well with this last election.
Could have been Romney or any other and the results would be the same. Just not enough conservatives as there use to be.
When you have half the population tied to entitlements, anything that is tied to immigration or cutting benefits isn't going to happen until we reach that point that those issues have to be forced.
Have to wait until we are close to bancruptcy. Abortion, gay mariage and social issues play in to it, but not on a grand scale.
If a candidate says they are going to cut a trillion out of the budget and entitlements are included, that candidate will lose verses the one that is passing out candy.
 
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Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Changing demographics just don't bode well for the libertarian or republican party.
I think that's spot on. The demographics of the nation are going in the exact opposite of the traditional Republican party. Blacks, Latinos, Asians, gays, the Republican party has gone out of it's way to alienate them. The number one issue that voters had for voting they way they did was they wanted to vote for someone who "cared about me." Of course, to some people that means free stuff, but I guarantee you it goes deeper than that. Obama catered to two very different demographic segments in two very different ways, and it's why he won. He catered to the Rust Belt with concerns over unions and workers, and he catered to the Sunny Belt states with concerns over giving a voice to those who traditional have not had a much of a say, the blacks and Latinos. Despite popular belief, not all Latinos are illegals and not all illegal vote - some are actually US citizens with full voting privileges, and the Republicans threw the baby out with the bath water on that one.

The Republicans don't need to become the Democrats, but if they try to go more to the right than they are already on social issues, if they make no effort to accommodate the moderate views of a rapidly changing demographic, they've got no chance at all.

It was clear to me that when they threw Herman Cain under the bus, they threw the towel under it right along with him.
 

cubansammich

Not a Member
I think that's spot on. The demographics of the nation are going in the exact opposite of the traditional Republican party. Blacks, Latinos, Asians, gays, the Republican party has gone out of it's way to alienate them. The number one issue that voters had for voting they way they did was they wanted to vote for someone who "cared about me." Of course, to some people that means free stuff, but I guarantee you it goes deeper than that. Obama catered to two very different demographic segments in two very different ways, and it's why he won. He catered to the Rust Belt with concerns over unions and workers, and he catered to the Sunny Belt states with concerns over giving a voice to those who traditional have not had a much of a say, the blacks and Latinos. Despite popular belief, not all Latinos are illegals and not all illegal vote - some are actually US citizens with full voting privileges, and the Republicans threw the baby out with the bath water on that one.

The Republicans don't need to become the Democrats, but if they try to go more to the right than they are already on social issues, if they make no effort to accommodate the moderate views of a rapidly changing demographic, they've got no chance at all.

It was clear to me that when they threw Herman Cain under the bus, they threw the towel under it right along with him.

Once again you are on the money! Unfortunately the Angry White Men are ok with it. They cannot, and likely will not, understand why caring about one or more demographics are important. To them there is only one demographic. Change is not their longsuit but it's ok. They won't live forever. There is a new generation coming.
 

davekc

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I would agree that unions were a factor and no doubt they will have to figure out how to deal with Latinos. All the lock up the border and "self deportation" comments aren't going to win over that segment that continues to get larger. Even the legal ones it seems will sympathize with the ones who are illegal.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The Angry White Men most definitely want change, it's just that the change they want is for others to change to their way of thinking, whether they like it or not.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
What's this angry white men BS? I'm going to play the libtard for once, and call the Cuban a racist.

RACIST!
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
The Angry White Men most definitely want change, it's just that the change they want is for others to change to their way of thinking, whether they like it or not.

EVERYBODY wants people to think like they do. If you think that's exclusive to angry, white, conservative males, I'll see your KKK and raise you a Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, along with Harlem and Los Angeles.
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
EVERYBODY wants people to think like they do. If you think that's exclusive to angry, white, conservative males, I'll see your KKK and raise you a Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, along with Harlem and Los Angeles.

I agree with you. But the problem the Angry White Men have is, they are fighting a losing demographic battle. We see evidence of that whenever someone on here posts about how the Republicans need to move more to the right, need to get back to the core "traditional" values (which is code for Christian) as if they think people to the left and the middle will move with them. It's funny.
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I think any conservative party will only have a chance at the state and local level
.
Unless something changes within the party, yeah, pretty much ...

Changing demographics just don't bode well for the libertarian or republican party. Probably most independants as well with this last election.
Republican yes, the others not so much.

Could have been Romney or any other and the results would be the same. Just not enough conservatives as there use to be.
While the candidate plays a part (with Romney being perhaps nearly the worst in all possible worlds in this particular environment) it is what the party is perceived to stand for (not those things that it claims to stand for ... but those things it's actions shows it stands for)

When you have half the population tied to entitlements, anything that is tied to immigration or cutting benefits isn't going to happen until we reach that point that those issues have to be forced.
Misguided ... but hey - keep on believing it ... after all - it's working out so well for y'all ...

Abortion, gay mariage and social issues play in to it, but not on a grand scale.
Probably just a little more than you think ..

If a candidate says they are going to cut a trillion out of the budget and entitlements are included, that candidate will lose verses the one that is passing out candy.
Sorry, but I'm not buying it ...

It's a nice simplistic meme ... one which places the responsibility for the failure of the Party on others ... rather than accepting responsibility for what the 'tards in the Party have wrought.

In terms of evidence that it's wrong I can only offer a single anecdote based on people I know, friends of mine.

Mike and his wife are both 60+ year-old, blue-collar Catholic voters - neither attend Mass regularly, and both are life-long Democrats. Mike and his wife have always voted Democratic - never Republican.

Mike stumbled into an internet business and ended up doing very, very well ... so well that he mortgaged his house to fund additional inventory and expand the business ... (big mistake)

Both he and his wife worked in it, operating it out of their home, and he ended up employing two or three additional people two to help.

And then the economic environment went south, he made some poor decisions, the business dried up ... and they came very, very close to losing their home as a consequence. Mike has had various medical problems, the biggest one being his eyes, which have been operated on repeatedly - until the most recent operation(s) (which I think it was corneal transplant) he was nearly (functionally) blind.

He ended up applying for and eventually being granted Social Security disability (permanent disabled) - which he had to really fight to get (through the courts) - so, despite the fact that he can still work (and does), he's actually on the dole and collecting.

He and his wife ended up voting for Romney.

Key factor: they're devout Fox News watchers (... and, probably as a consequence, "low info" voters ... ;))

Terrified old(er) white people (men mostly) for Jeebus ... ya gots to love 'em ... :rolleyes:
 
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RLENT

Veteran Expediter
I think that's spot on.
Yeah ... except for the libertarian aspect of it.

The change in demographics, while it disfavors Republicans, actually somewhat favors libertarians ... as evidenced by the fact Johnson drew the largest number of votes for a libertarian candidate ever. The trend is that since 2000 the Libertarian Part has steadily increased it's vote totals - significantly.

I think it will take some time for that movement to fully coalesce. Whether it ever actually does or not may depend on whether the two parties are able to work together over the next four years to actually govern and effectively address some of the real problems this nation faces.

The demographics of the nation are going in the exact opposite of the traditional Republican party. Blacks, Latinos, Asians, gays, the Republican party has gone out of it's way to alienate them.
Precisely - and any no amount of gratuitous "tokenism" (Marco Rubio, Allen West, Mia Love) as is being simplistically pushed by Bill O'Reilly will ever substitute for actually addressing their issues ...

Which makes a good case for just flipping the channel elsewhere whenever O'Really? comes on - he's a smug, clueless dork - one that is actually fomenting and driving stupidity within the Party.

He and many other "voices on the right" actually drive the stupidity that exists at the grassroots level (as evidenced by certain comments in this very thread) by the manner in which they cover and treat certain issues - which is then simply reflected by the Party and it's leaders.

Religious and racial bigotry, intolerance toward minorities and gays, a total lack of any empathy towards those in less fortunate circumstances - it's all right there baby.

The number one issue that voters had for voting they way they did was they wanted to vote for someone who "cared about me."
I don't think that is quite accurate - I would say it's more like "someone who actually understands and cares about the problems I'm facing ... and is willing to do something to actually address them" ...

It should be very clear that, on it's face, that, as a premise, would be "a bridge too far" for Romney to cross ...

One should keep this single fact in mind: the answers to polls are largely determined by those who formulate the questions being asked ...

IOW, since the polls results are not necessarily precisely a reflection of a self-originated narrative from those being polled, the results are only as good as how accurately the phrasing of the poll question represents the actual thing that motivated the voter.

The poll results may be generally true to some degree or another, but may also not fully reflect the sentiments completely accurately.

Of course, to some people that means free stuff, but I guarantee you it goes deeper than that.
Yeah ... it does ... way, way deeper.

Obama catered to two very different demographic segments in two very different ways, and it's why he won. He catered to the Rust Belt with concerns over unions and workers, and he catered to the Sunny Belt states with concerns over giving a voice to those who traditional have not had a much of a say, the blacks and Latinos.
On the latter, I would say it wasn't even so much a matter of catering to them, as much as it was a matter of the Republicans shooting themselves in the foot - specifically in Florida and Ohio - by attempting to suppress the minority vote, by limiting access to the polls (reduced days and hours for early voting, and in some cases less voting machines in poor urban areas)

When this sort of thing takes place on the national stage and is given widespread media coverage, it will seriously **** off those whose votes are being targeted specifically, as well as many others whose votes might be, and it will drive voter turnout in the affected demographics nation wide.

I'd even venture to say that it might even **** off a lifelong Republican or two sufficiently enough, that they might just switch their votes and vote a straight Democratic ticket - to repudiate such conduct :rolleyes:

Beyond that, in regards to the former, the actions against unionized workers in both Wisconsin and Ohio by Republican governors probably didn't play too well with any union member. Clearly, in Kaisich's case it was a total over-reach, and was thoroughly repudiated by a majority of the electorate here in Ohio.

To attempt these things before the presidential election was incredibly stupid, and just shows how delusion these ****** actully are ... they are operating in some sort of "bubble reality" ... an alternate universe ... oblivious to the larger world around them.

Despite popular belief, not all Latinos are illegals and not all illegal vote - some are actually US citizens with full voting privileges, and the Republicans threw the baby out with the bath water on that one.
You bet they did.

The Republicans don't need to become the Democrats, but if they try to go more to the right than they are already on social issues, if they make no effort to accommodate the moderate views of a rapidly changing demographic, they've got no chance at all.
They might as well engage in self-immolation:

thich_quang_duc_-_self_immolation.jpg

It was clear to me that when they threw Herman Cain under the bus, they threw the towel under it right along with him.
I suspect that Mr. Cain's demise or continued participation would have had little effect on the minority vote - given his background (business exec, and right-wing talk radio host), his appeal was largely to white conservative voters - the kind that are most likely to delusionally believe that gratuitous tokenism is the solution to the problems that the Party faces.

IOW: he's a black man that they would feel safe being seen with ... at the country club ... ;)
 

Pilgrim

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
What's this angry white men BS? I'm going to play the libtard for once, and call the Cuban a racist.

RACIST!
Falling back on the "angry white men" stereotype of the Republicans just doesn't hold water any more. First of all, what angry white men? Are we talking about Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Artur Davis, Ted Cruz, Michael Steele, Alan West; the list goes on, but the point is that the GOP is every bit as racially inclusive as the Democrats. The Bush administration had more minorities represented in it's cabinet than does Obama (speaking of a group of angry white men). However, it's a racist mistake to get hung up on quotas or an affirmative action program for political representatives instead of putting the best candidates in place who are going to promote the principles of the party. There are plenty of minorities and women - black, Hispanic, Asian, whatever - that still believe in core conservative principles like less govt intrusion, lower taxes, school choice, a stronger military and freedom of religion. If this had been a popular vote blowout in favor Obama one might be able to say the demographics are moving away from the GOP - but that's not the case. They once again ran a milktoast moderate with an ineffective campaign afraid to promote the values that have made this country exceptional.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
.
Unless something changes within the party, yeah, pretty much ...


Republican yes, the others not so much.


While the candidate plays a part (with Romney being perhaps nearly the worst in all possible worlds in this particular environment) it is what the party is perceived to stand for (not those things that it claims to stand for ... but those things it's actions shows it stands for)


Misguided ... but hey - keep on believing it ... after all - it's working out so well for y'all ...


Probably just a little more than you think ..


Sorry, but I'm not buying it ...

It's a nice simplistic meme ... one which places the responsibility for the failure of the Party on others ... rather than accepting responsibility for what the 'tards in the Party have wrought.

In terms of evidence that it's wrong I can only offer a single anecdote based on people I know, friends of mine.

Mike and his wife are both 60+ year-old, blue-collar Catholic voters - neither attend Mass regularly, and both are life-long Democrats. Mike and his wife have always voted Democratic - never Republican.

Mike stumbled into an internet business and ended up doing very, very well ... so well that he mortgaged his house to fund additional inventory and expand the business ... (big mistake)

Both he and his wife worked in it, operating it out of their home, and he ended up employing two or three additional people two to help.

And then the economic environment went south, he made some poor decisions, the business dried up ... and they came very, very close to losing their home as a consequence. Mike has had various medical problems, the biggest one being his eyes, which have been operated on repeatedly - until the most recent operation(s) (which I think it was corneal transplant) he was nearly (functionally) blind.

He ended up applying for and eventually being granted Social Security disability (permanent disabled) - which he had to really fight to get (through the courts) - so, despite the fact that he can still work (and does), he's actually on the dole and collecting.

He and his wife ended up voting for Romney.

Key factor: they're devout Fox News watchers (... and, probably as a consequence, "low info" voters ... ;))

Terrified old(er) white people (men mostly) for Jeebus ... ya gots to love 'em ... :rolleyes:

I think there are exceptions either way. But when looking at say 43m on welfare, you might have a hard time convincing me that a large number were Romney supporters. Of course I could be wrong since I don't have that answer but if I was a betting man.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Falling back on the "angry white men" stereotype of the Republicans just doesn't hold water any more. First of all, what angry white men? Are we talking about Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Artur Davis, Ted Cruz, Michael Steele, Alan West; the list goes on, but the point is that the GOP is every bit as racially inclusive as the Democrats. The Bush administration had more minorities represented in it's cabinet than does Obama (speaking of a group of angry white men). However, it's a racist mistake to get hung up on quotas or an affirmative action program for political representatives instead of putting the best candidates in place who are going to promote the principles of the party. There are plenty of minorities and women - black, Hispanic, Asian, whatever - that still believe in core conservative principles like less govt intrusion, lower taxes, school choice, a stronger military and freedom of religion. If this had been a popular vote blowout in favor Obama one might be able to say the demographics are moving away from the GOP - but that's not the case. They once again ran a milktoast moderate with an ineffective campaign afraid to promote the values that have made this country exceptional.

I thought of that intitially if all things were fairly equal. This happened with a president whos first term was basically a disaster. With that changing landscape, I'm not so sure.
 

cubansammich

Not a Member
Falling back on the "angry white men" stereotype of the Republicans just doesn't hold water any more. First of all, what angry white men? Are we talking about Bobby Jindal, Marco Rubio, Artur Davis, Ted Cruz, Michael Steele, Alan West; the list goes on, but the point is that the GOP is every bit as racially inclusive as the Democrats. The Bush administration had more minorities represented in it's cabinet than does Obama (speaking of a group of angry white men). However, it's a racist mistake to get hung up on quotas or an affirmative action program for political representatives instead of putting the best candidates in place who are going to promote the principles of the party. There are plenty of minorities and women - black, Hispanic, Asian, whatever - that still believe in core conservative principles like less govt intrusion, lower taxes, school choice, a stronger military and freedom of religion. If this had been a popular vote blowout in favor Obama one might be able to say the demographics are moving away from the GOP - but that's not the case. They once again ran a milktoast moderate with an ineffective campaign afraid to promote the values that have made this country exceptional.

Not sure what your definition of falling back is. The GOP base is a group of angry people, mostly white men. Allen West qualifies though he is not white. The face of America is changing. This is not opinion, this is fact. You can scream all you want about gimme goobers or free loaders or dregs, etc., but it doesn't matter. The masses want what they want. These are, like it or not, our next generation of leaders. I submit you could have a far better influence on the direction of America's future if you would accept it and perhaps get involved in the movement. Your voice would have a much better chance of being heard. You have a choice. You can be viewed as a wise old sage who has something to contribute or you can sit in the corner and curse the future, viewed facetiously as an out of touch old man.
 
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