Now for winter, keeping warm
- Thread starter AMonger
- Start date
For the same reason that a regular cranking battery doesn't work well for long low amp draws, it's designed to provide a high amp smack to crank the engine. Here's an idea, use a deep cycle battery that's designed for long low amp draws, charge IT while you drive, and use IT to power the heater. Naaaa, too simple.
That's why I'm here.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
Ok, first, I don't know a thing about electrical systems and such. But from past reading, isn't there something called an isolator that would have to be put in this circuit? I seem to recall some thread where people put in, "Don't forget, you have to have a hootzenjammer in the system to prevent renoberation of the schmickules..." And then somebody else would reply, "It's not a hootzenjammer, it's an amanacanapoonah and it has to be wired like so:..."
So with ONE deep cycle battery, with only a space heater hooked into it, ok and maybe a small TV, how many doohickies do I need in the circuit, and can they be hooked up to the main battery with alligator clips, or what? Maybe just sit the battery on the floor in front of the passenger seat and run the cabling through the firewall? I don't own the van, so I can't do a lot to it.
Yeah, to charge a house battery from the alternator, you'll need to hook that battery to the alternator, or to the cranking battery itself, which is connected to the alternator. You can do it directly, but when the engine isn't running, then the cranking battery and the house batter are still connected, meaning if you run the house battery down, you're running the cranking battery down, as well. A battery isolator isolates the two batteries from each other, connecting them when the key is turned on and the engine is running, and disconnects them when the engine is off, preventing you from killing the cranking battery.
From where the alternator connects to the cranking battery, you hook a positive battery cable to it, and then run that to the isolator, and then go from the isolator to the house battery. That puts the isolator between the cranking and house battery, and a solenoid relay in the isolator breaks the connection when the engine isn't running, and connects them if it is.
You can run the cable from the engine compartment into the van via a small drilled hole, or through an existing hole in the firewall or some other place that it exists. You can also use alligator clamps to connect to the isolator, I guess, but not sure if I'd recommend that while driving. If one slips off then you've got yourself an electrical hoe down under the hood.
Do NOT expect to be able to run an electrical space heater off of a single battery, even a high dollar AGM battery. A 1500 Watt space heater draws 12.5 amps at 120 volts, and when converted to 12 volts by an inverter that becomes 125 amps. You'll do good to get half an hour with a 100 amp hour battery. In order to run a 1500 Watt space heater for 8 hours you will need a 2000 amp hour battery bank. If you populate it with 100 amp hour deep cycle batteries, that's 20 batteries and 1300 pounds. Give or take.
For someone like you, driving someone else's van, installing a battery along the wall of the van behind the seat isn't much of a problem. Install the isolator and run the cable, plus one to ground the battery to the vehicle's frame near the battery, and you can use an inverter and 12-volt loads right from that battery. But it won't be a battery that will keep you warm. It'll be a battery that can run a computer, a TV and some lights, but nothing with resistive heat like an air conditioner or an electric heater (it will run an Espar heater, however).
You have to know the Wattage or amp draws of each appliance, and for how long between fully recharging the battery you'll use them for, to determine how big of a battery bank you'll use. For most people, one or two batteries is plenty.
Go here and read 'em all. That should get you started. But for what you want to do, it's pretty simple. But a lot of the links below will give you an idea of what you can and can't do with a battery bank, it will bring expectations in line with what's practical.
If you really and truly want to run a space heater, then you'll need a generator. There are lots of variations, but the only way to really and truly stay warm in a van or truck is with a generator running a heater, an Espar heater, or to idle. Everything else is a kludge at best, and some of them are flat out dangerous.
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/22660-batteries-crankinig-amps.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/22537-our-batteries.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/22537-our-batteries.htmlhttp://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/36982-inverter.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/for...um/37802-charging-batteries-finer-detail.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/38659-12-volt-electric-blanket.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/41288-thermo-electric-coolers-amps.html
From where the alternator connects to the cranking battery, you hook a positive battery cable to it, and then run that to the isolator, and then go from the isolator to the house battery. That puts the isolator between the cranking and house battery, and a solenoid relay in the isolator breaks the connection when the engine isn't running, and connects them if it is.
You can run the cable from the engine compartment into the van via a small drilled hole, or through an existing hole in the firewall or some other place that it exists. You can also use alligator clamps to connect to the isolator, I guess, but not sure if I'd recommend that while driving. If one slips off then you've got yourself an electrical hoe down under the hood.
Do NOT expect to be able to run an electrical space heater off of a single battery, even a high dollar AGM battery. A 1500 Watt space heater draws 12.5 amps at 120 volts, and when converted to 12 volts by an inverter that becomes 125 amps. You'll do good to get half an hour with a 100 amp hour battery. In order to run a 1500 Watt space heater for 8 hours you will need a 2000 amp hour battery bank. If you populate it with 100 amp hour deep cycle batteries, that's 20 batteries and 1300 pounds. Give or take.
For someone like you, driving someone else's van, installing a battery along the wall of the van behind the seat isn't much of a problem. Install the isolator and run the cable, plus one to ground the battery to the vehicle's frame near the battery, and you can use an inverter and 12-volt loads right from that battery. But it won't be a battery that will keep you warm. It'll be a battery that can run a computer, a TV and some lights, but nothing with resistive heat like an air conditioner or an electric heater (it will run an Espar heater, however).
You have to know the Wattage or amp draws of each appliance, and for how long between fully recharging the battery you'll use them for, to determine how big of a battery bank you'll use. For most people, one or two batteries is plenty.
Go here and read 'em all. That should get you started. But for what you want to do, it's pretty simple. But a lot of the links below will give you an idea of what you can and can't do with a battery bank, it will bring expectations in line with what's practical.
If you really and truly want to run a space heater, then you'll need a generator. There are lots of variations, but the only way to really and truly stay warm in a van or truck is with a generator running a heater, an Espar heater, or to idle. Everything else is a kludge at best, and some of them are flat out dangerous.
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/22660-batteries-crankinig-amps.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/22537-our-batteries.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/22537-our-batteries.htmlhttp://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/36982-inverter.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/for...um/37802-charging-batteries-finer-detail.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/38659-12-volt-electric-blanket.html
http://www.expeditersonline.com/forum/truck-talk/41288-thermo-electric-coolers-amps.html
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ebsprintin
Veteran Expediter
A -40 degree sleeping bag should be too hot in most cases, even if it's a cheap bag by a cheap manufacturer. If you are getting cold in a sub-zero bag, I'm guessing that you are losing heat through the ground, cot, or whatever you are sleeping on. Sleeping bags keep you warm by trapping air in the loft or fluffiness of the bag. The bottom side compressed between body and floor gives little protection from the cold. I found that even my thick thermarest pad isn't enough to stop my heat from getting sucked out from below. I add an extra thermarest pad or a sheet of Reflectix under my bag and sleeping pad, and I stay toasty on the coldest nights. I'd try insulating below before looking for a different bag.
As for sleeping bag manufacturers, I like the very light slumberjack models. I have a 50 degree bag and a 30 degree bag that I use separately or in combination.
eb
As for sleeping bag manufacturers, I like the very light slumberjack models. I have a 50 degree bag and a 30 degree bag that I use separately or in combination.
eb
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Phoenix4774
Seasoned Expediter
Since it's near Halloween, maybe one should get a mummy sleeping bag:
mummy sleeping bag - Google Search
Sure don't look like much leg room
mummy sleeping bag - Google Search
Sure don't look like much leg room
Just came across this while doing some light reading....
Doesn't really apply to cargo vans unless placarded, but it's something you should be aware of.
Part 393.77: Heaters. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Miscellaneous parts and accessories
§393.77 Heaters. On every motor vehicle, every heater shall comply with the following requirements:
(a) Prohibited types of heaters. The installation or use of the following types of heaters is prohibited:
(a)(6) Portable heaters. Portable heaters shall not be used in any space occupied by persons except the cargo space of motor vehicles which are being loaded or unloaded.
Doesn't really apply to cargo vans unless placarded, but it's something you should be aware of.
Part 393.77: Heaters. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Miscellaneous parts and accessories
§393.77 Heaters. On every motor vehicle, every heater shall comply with the following requirements:
(a) Prohibited types of heaters. The installation or use of the following types of heaters is prohibited:
(a)(6) Portable heaters. Portable heaters shall not be used in any space occupied by persons except the cargo space of motor vehicles which are being loaded or unloaded.
If u have a 50 and a 30 that tells me u r sleeping outside, so 50 and 30 equals 80 degrees below zero. I couldnt get go pee if it was that cold, even if it was 50 below and I wont go where its that cold, amen. lol
ebsprintin
Veteran Expediter
I think you misunderstand. They are 50 and 30 degrees above zero, so the total is 80 for when it gets warm.If u have a 50 and a 30 that tells me u r sleeping outside, so 50 and 30 equals 80 degrees below zero. I couldnt get go pee if it was that cold, even if it was 50 below and I wont go where its that cold, amen. lol
eb
ebsprintin
Veteran Expediter
Back to this question. Some of the old military sleeping bags are excellent, if you can handle down and feathers. They may be heavy compared to the technical bags of today, but they can't be beat in an emergency.
eb
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I bought an older Military bag, it wasn't down at all but new material. I paid $39 for it and looked used but in great shape. Very light and compresses into a small package.
You can even get the module bags that are used today in the Marines and Army, some places have them for a bit less than $125 but they average about $250. There are three or four pieces to them and the temp range for it is down to -25 or something like that.
Keep in mind that the military buys most things on a low bid system. MIGHT not be the best quality stuff out there. Then again, they will be used indoors in very controlled conditions so they may hold up ok.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
They do?
You have five companies who can make sleeping bags. The military has specs for the bag they require, they send out the RFQ and receive it from four companies. Out of the four, they submit samples and fulfill the needed specs for material use, stitching and stuffing, all of which has to hold up to some pretty good testing. and one is selected which may not be the cheapest RFQ.
The problem isn't with the product but with the use of the product and the disposition of the product after it ends its military life. The government now contracted all disposal to one company and that one company throws all the good and bad together to get maximum return on the original value with minumal bids. We, the tax payer should get the stuff for next to nothing but instead pay for things we already paid for in the first place.
Well the point is that selection is imperative to getting good stuff. Most of the stuff I get I am careful to check it and then I try to bargain with the vendor, nothing is set in stone.
You have five companies who can make sleeping bags. The military has specs for the bag they require, they send out the RFQ and receive it from four companies. Out of the four, they submit samples and fulfill the needed specs for material use, stitching and stuffing, all of which has to hold up to some pretty good testing. and one is selected which may not be the cheapest RFQ.
The problem isn't with the product but with the use of the product and the disposition of the product after it ends its military life. The government now contracted all disposal to one company and that one company throws all the good and bad together to get maximum return on the original value with minumal bids. We, the tax payer should get the stuff for next to nothing but instead pay for things we already paid for in the first place.
Well the point is that selection is imperative to getting good stuff. Most of the stuff I get I am careful to check it and then I try to bargain with the vendor, nothing is set in stone.
AMonger
Veteran Expediter
NOT BACK TO THE GENERATORS AGAIN!!!!
I figured I had gotten through summer without one, and heating should take less energy than cooling, so I figured I can go a few months without shelling out for something I can't afford. I suppose I can find a cheap remote start, warm it up inside before I go to bed, and hit the remote every time I wake up cold, let it die after 20 minutes. That, with the double fleece blanket and sleeping bag should keep me warm for 3-4 hours at a time.
one 2200 watt gen, one electric blanket, one Mr. Heater, one 1500 watt heater, and engine heat if I need it, block off most of the van and Im good to go,,,,when all else fails,,go to a motel 6. Now all that said,,,I dont use it all,,but its on board if I had to.
I have what seems to be a good -25 mummy bag I bought at Gander mountain on sale for 49 bucks. I warm up the sprinter
(bunk area isolated from cargo and insulated) shut it off and crawl in the bag. I am good until I wake up for some reason other than cold. I get cold very easy and this still works well for me. If you do by a mummy bag make sure you can return it if needed not everyone is comfortable and will sleep well in the restricted space. When I wake up if it is to cold i sit in the seat with still in the bag until the truck warms up.
Now the tuff part is keeping warm when your not sleeping. That is where a Mr buddy or some other heating method other than idling comes into play. The MB is rated safe for indoor use but as others pointed out you want to be smart about it. Want to keep snow or ice off your window? Put something outside over the window peel it off when your getting ready to roll and through it in the cargo area. You can buy a large roll of the silver bubble stuff at Lowes cut it to size and place it under your wipers. Maybe some magnets glued on for the top edge. I have even seen people use cardboard but that breaks up after much moisture.
One thing I do notice if my Mr Buddy runs an extended time It will tend to produce a lot of moisture on the inside of the windshield.
Condensation occurs where moist air comes into contact with air, or a surface, which is at a lower temperature. Air contains water vapour in varying quantities, and its capacity to do so is related to its temperature, where warm air holds more moisture than cold air. When moist air comes into contact with either colder air or a colder surface, the air is unable to retain the same amount of moisture and the water is released to form condensation in the air (clouds) or on the surface (dew).
In an enclosed space, like a house or especially a van, water vapor is produced in relatively large quantities from normal day to day activities, like breathing (and laundry and bathing). Each person puts out about .6 pounds of moisture while they're sleeping, and about 1.8 pounds while they're awake, in a 24 hour period. Gas heaters, like propane, adds considerable moisture to the air. Every carbon fuel produces some amount of water from combustion. But with propane, it's nearly 1:1 where for every quart in volume of propane that gets burned, slightly more than one quart in volume of moisture vaporizes into the air.
So a heated van is going to result in condensation on cold surfaces like windows regardless of the type of heater, but a Mr Buddy heater exacerbates the problem by creating additional moisture. But it's also why it's important to insulate as many exposed surfaces as possible, like behind panels and above removable headliners, as condensation will form there, and can rust out the metal surfaces, or even soak into and rain down through the headliner, ruining it.