North Carolina voters reject same-sex marriage.

asjssl

Veteran Expediter
Fleet Owner
The issue I have with it is it seems they are more interested in attacking and bullying rather than just wanting the same coverage like health insurance coverage, hospital visits, etc. I really don't care if 2 guys want to have a civil union or do whatever they want in their private lives but I disagree with how they are going about the marriage issue. As far as the moral/religious issues, I am not going to say they are following scripture but I am not going to judge them since their relationship with God is their's and their's alone. I also have enough issues living a sin free life and fail at it more than I should. I know there are also plenty of people that disagree with homosexuals based on the fact that it is abnormal, I can't say I have ever met a completely normal person so I really don't give that argument much merit.

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Why should they accept anything less than marriage for all....they are HUMAN with just as many rights as you....there are NOT second class citzens .....bible...god...blah blah blah...its about treating ALL people equal!!.. again they are HUMAN BEINGS!!!

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mxzane933

Seasoned Expediter
Everything you have said about this subject in this thread just went out the window with that comment. Congratulations for showing your true colors. Stay classy my friend, stay classy.

Just a .joke instead of the seriousness of the thread. I would never wish such a awful disease on anyone. Just for poots n giggles

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Turtle

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Retired Expediter
Why should they accept anything less than marriage for all....they are HUMAN with just as many rights as you....there are NOT second class citzens .....bible...god...blah blah blah...its about treating ALL people equal!!.. again they are HUMAN BEINGS!!!
The propaganda of the Gay Agenda is an apparent success. Gay people don't refer to gay marriage or same-sex marriage as either one of those terms, they refer to it as "equal marriage", in order to get people to believe that they want merely equal rights. That's the same reason they have associated and equated Gay Rights with Civil Rights, and no longer refer to it as Gay Rights. Who wants to be labeled as being against Civil Rights? <gasp> Who wants to treat someone less than equal? Perish the thought.

The problem is, it's not equal marriage, it's same-sex marriage. It's not being treated equally with the same rights as everyone else, it's being treated with special rights. The only, only, only context where same-sex marriage is the same as any other marriage is when they talk about "I wanna marry the person I love. Straight people get to do that!". But that's not what marriage is, or ever has been about. Marriage is about the legal union of a man (a husband) and a woman (a wife). Period.

What gays want to do is redefine what Marriage means, in order to give them special rights. They currently have the right to get married, same as everyone else does. By the same token, neither gays nor anyone else are allowed to marry someone of the same sex. Why, after tens of thousands of years, do we suddenly have this great need to redefine what Marriage means? It's not like we haven't had homosexuals around for the same time frame. The reason it needs to be redefined is because gays want it, and they want it really, really bad, therefore they should have it.

Horse hockey.

The problem is, gays have been offered Civil Unions, which give them the exact same legal rights and responsibilities as a married couple (which I believe gay couples should be entitled to, without question), but they have rejected it out of hand. Don't want anything to do with it. Not good enough. Pooey. Clearly, they don't want the same rights as others, they want special rights, they want the right to redefine what Marriage means. Why do they want to do this? Because Marriage is, at it's core, a religious institution and they wanna get one over on The Church. The Church has persecuted homosexuals for centuries, and homosexuals want a little payback. They want to win.

Ironically, if they'd had just accepted the civil union as the path to marriage, within a few shorts years (10-30, I'd say) it would be referred to as being married, as a civil union is a de facto marriage, anyway, and they'd have it. But they want the "M" word. And now they've got massive resistance against same-sex marriage, so massive that they only way they can get it is by activist judges who legislate from the bench or worm their way politically into the scattered legislative bodies by relentless "equal rights" propaganda. But put it up for a vote by people who don't have to worry about getting re-elected, and the same-sex marriage issue goes down in flames.

The problem with the NC Constitutional Amendment is it also forbids civil unions, which is just bald faced persecution. Civil unions should be allowed, so that couples have the same legal benefits, and responsibilities, as any other couple who is legally joined in marriage. But they shouldn't get the "M" word, because that redefines the meaning of the word, and it redefines it simply because they want to win, and they want to win bad.
 
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paullud

Veteran Expediter
Why should they accept anything less than marriage for all....they are HUMAN with just as many rights as you....there are NOT second class citzens .....bible...god...blah blah blah...its about treating ALL people equal!!.. again they are HUMAN BEINGS!!!

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If you read Turtle's post you will see what I have stated in this thread previously lines up with exactly what he just said. I have no problem with civil unions and if you follow the polls the majority of NC residents actually are for civil unions but did not realize the most recent vote would impact them. I keep repeating that I am all for gays having the ability to be able to have the same benefits in a civil union as a straight couple does in a marriage. You seem to be under the impression I think they should have less rights and that I view them as less than human which is completely incorrect. I think the issue you are having is you are taking any resistance to gay marriage as the person being prejudice or saying gays are less than human which is your prejudice that has been ingrained by gay bully activists. You have attacked and made offensive comments about religion as well because you are prejudice to the fact that a person who is against gay marriage must have that view due to religion. What would be so wrong with a civil union that gives all the same benefits of marriage?

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LisaLouHoo

Expert Expediter
Watch out for Karma though...it is said what one hates most, Karma will burden them with their hatred. I have a former brother-in-law who is a major homophobe; his namesake son is gay. A family friend is a major redneck, bandying about the "N" word like most of us use the word "the"; he now has 2 bi-racial great grandchildren.

Maybe it's rebellion on the part of the younger generation?

Maybe it's Karma?

Why risk it?

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davekc

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anthropologist: When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite


So much for marriage having always and only been between a man and woman....and the church's willful ignoring of their own history. [Like that's a surprise, right?].


I don't know enough on the subject (why would I research it?) but it should be noted that your author was also a gay activist. So it would raise the question as to whether the information is slanted? He also talks about "civil unions" verses marriage. Without knowing much about it, I'm not sure I would take what was written as gospel. Just an observation from someone who is indifferent on the whole thing. I just don't like government money wasted on fooling with it.
 
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cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
I'm wondering how you know that the late Professor John Boswell [former chairman of Yale University's History Dept] was gay, and why it would make any difference as far as the actual historical records he cites?
The various records are not his opinion, they are historical documents recording 'marriages' between men, solemnized and blessed by the Church. [One was between two of the Church's own saints!]
The same Church that insists it's a sin, and always has been. And that priests pose no danger to altar boys, and birth control is sinful too - that Church.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
From what I understand, most gays would be happy with civil union. It's the activists, such as the flamers, who dictate what ALL gays will accept and demand. To me, they are as bad as any off-the-wall preacher.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
I'm wondering how you know that the late Professor John Boswell [former chairman of Yale University's History Dept] was gay, and why it would make any difference as far as the actual historical records he cites?
The various records are not his opinion, they are historical documents recording 'marriages' between men, solemnized and blessed by the Church. [One was between two of the Church's own saints!]
The same Church that insists it's a sin, and always has been. And that priests pose no danger to altar boys, and birth control is sinful too - that Church.

ALERT! ALERT! STRAWMAN ALERT!

Come on, Cheri... you're better than that.
 

davekc

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You can do a Internet search on him. Some say his writing are very controversial and opinion based. He was openly gay in his writings, died of aids in his 40's.
I only know about him from the controversial side. Again, not something I would have taken the time to research.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
anthropologist: When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite


So much for marriage having always and only been between a man and woman....and the church's willful ignoring of their own history. [Like that's a surprise, right?].


You do realize the author was never able to prove that these events were church sanctioned events, right? They did happen but were not approved of, they were basically civil unions which most people are in favor of.

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aristotle

Veteran Expediter
anthropologist: When Same-Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite


So much for marriage having always and only been between a man and woman....and the church's willful ignoring of their own history. [Like that's a surprise, right?].


Dreadfully poor scholarship. So a few renegade priests go rogue by "blessing" homosexual unions 500 years ago. Even if true, finding an obscure case deep in the archives proves nothing. The overwhelming history, tradition and teachings of Christianity is clear: homosexuality is a forbidden practice and certainly not on par with marriage. In fact, homosexual unions are the polar opposite of marriage. This speaks to the desperation of the gay agenda.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
ALERT! ALERT! STRAWMAN ALERT!

What strawman? All [modern day] opposition to homosexuals originates from and is legitimized by religion, is it not?

Come on, Cheri... you're better than that.

No, I'm not. And I'm not a Liberal - excuse me, a dumber than dirt liberal moron, either. [I'm firmly in favor of the right to bear arms & would if I could, and I am opposed to allowing illegal 'residents' to burden the taxpayers, so the dumber than dirt etc folks don't like me very much, either. It hurts, but I'll get over it.] ;)
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
You do realize the author was never able to prove that these events were church sanctioned events, right?

You do realize that no one [in 2000 years] has ever been able to prove that God exists, right?

They did happen but were not approved of, they were basically civil unions which most people are in favor of.

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LisaLouHoo

Expert Expediter
[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]They did happen but were not approved of, they were basically civil unions which most people are in favor of.

Civil definition: "Of or relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters"

As stated previously in this thread: getting married in a church in this country does NOT automatically wed a couple. The county clerk, a government entity, has to approve the application for, issue beforehand, sign and stamp afterwards: the license which makes the marriage legally recognized.

I believe religious ceremonies are nothing more than ritualistic displays which some people believe are required to affirm their union...and for some, show off to the public.

No one, and I mean NO ONE is married in this country until the government says they are; which is stated in the definition of "civil" as being separate from 'ecclesiastical matters', thus making the act of marriage already a civil union.

I was married at Genesee County 67th District Court; my best friend since junior high was married in a religious ceremony at St. Mary's Catholic Church. Both our licenses had to be validated by Genesee County Clerk. I was just as married as she in the eyes of the law, which is what counts in this country. Her church ceremony meant absolutely nothing when it came to actually being "married".

She just paid too much for all the trappings that go into a ritualistic wedding.

To relabel same sex marriages as "civil unions" would be redundant, as marriage is already such.

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Turtle

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Retired Expediter
You can do a Internet search on him. Some say his writing are very controversial and opinion based.
Like, he applied today's meanings of certain terms to things that took place centuries ago, despite having very different meanings back then. Not only a few religious terms and rites and what they mean, but he also has his own unique definition of "marriage" upon which all of his his writings on the subject are based. As someone else noted, "marriage" means civil union in most of those 'documented' occurrences, and most, if not all of those (the two saints in particular) were for unusual circumstances. Several of them were unions in name only for legal reasons to keep certain properties out of the hands of other certain people (certain relatives of the two saints in particular). One united a high ranking military leader with his companion (who was his aid and servant, literally a slave) so that property could be transferred to someone who could not legally own property otherwise. It was called a marriage by Bowen using his definition of the term, but the two men were hardly married in any traditional sense, much less married because they were in love, as Bowen explicitly implied.

The author dedicated most of his life to trying to turn the Church back on itself, not unlike the way "creation science" (an oxymoron if there ever was one) today uses junk science to try and turn science back on itself to prove beliefs (which is doubly ironic seeing that science and religion aren't even in conflict with each other, really). The author's writings, along with his basic premise, definitions and conclusions, have largely been disproven and discounted by his colleagues in academia, including by those he worked with.

His writings and the attempt to redefine marriage reminds me of "pink slime". True enough, pink slime is from a cow, so it's beef, and it is fed through a grinder, so it can technically be called ground beef, but what happens to it between the cow and the grinder is thoroughly unrighteous and deceiving and resembles beef in no way during the entire process. When people think of ground beef, they know what it is, you cut the cow into pieces and feed it through a grinder, and what comes out the other end is ground beef. Marriage is the same thing, people know what it is when they speak of the term. And it's not some thoroughly "processed to the point of being unrecognizable" thing created by someone for their own purposes, which is exactly what Bowman spent most of his life doing.

Trying to find, or even actually finding a handful of exceptions to the rule in no way dismisses the rule. Marriage is still marriage, same as it's always been. And pink slime ain't ground beef.
 

paullud

Veteran Expediter
To relabel same sex marriages as "civil unions" would be redundant, as marriage is already such.

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I agree to a point with what you are saying. It used to be that you just got married at the church and you were married but the government found a new way to collect money by selling marriage licenses so now they have the final say. A marriage or wedding was a religious ceremony to join a man and woman together and later had government involvement. I don't see an issue with having a marriage license and civil union license which would give either couple the same benefits. It makes the distinction between the 2 and gives people what they want.

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LisaLouHoo

Expert Expediter
I agree to a point with what you are saying. It used to be that you just got married at the church and you were married but the government found a new way to collect money by selling marriage licenses so now they have the final say. A marriage or wedding was a religious ceremony to join a man and woman together and later had government involvement. I don't see an issue with having a marriage license and civil union license which would give either couple the same benefits. It makes the distinction between the 2 and gives people what they want.

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If there is a separate category created for same sex unions, then there is the possibility of hetero couples who don't want to marry, but want separate legal consideration for their relationship; then they start the discrimination train rolling on their track.

And I couldn't agree more...the government did find a way to make a buck or two off marriages. Plus divorces (court fees).

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