New Panther Lease-Purchase Program

[AutonomyRex]

I agree with HighwayStar. I realize that traditional lenders are up to their nostrils with repoed houses, trucks and cars and are requiring larger down payments. But if you don't have the 20% to 25% down payment stay out of the O/O side of trucking. You are the desperate ones driving down rates, making unscrupulous carriers extra profits and causing global warming.



Yes it is. With the key word being "break." Past tense of "break"; broke.

Once again to quote Rex Campbell: " Don't lease from the man with the strings in his hand."

I can't seem to get the term: indentured servitude out of my head.

So Moot, Did you just call your carrier "UNSCRUPULOUS"??
You're Joking right??? You think leasing a power unit is what drives down rates??? REALLY? So it that what you think Panther is trying to do?

So who are the drivers of Cargo vans and Straights, that buy or make bank payments, which make up the vasy majority of O/O's in the expedite field....none of these o/o's haul cheap freight???...ever???....I don't know of any company out there offering leases on little vans or 33gvw straights....so it sure isn't Tractors driving your rates down.

Even if a driver were to put down 20-25%...he/she is still indentured to the bank. Am I wrong??? And even if you pay cash, outright...as a business person...do you not pay yourself back....cause surly, until you do, you have not turned a profit. So you are a servant to yourself.

Leasing is also a viable Tax strategy. It is called a Trac Lease for one type.

Plus, walk away from your bank note on your van...and see what happens.

Bad leases are bad business decisions....and those drivers will go broke. No different than getting a bad loan or a contarct with a bad carrier.

 

[greg334]

Even if a driver were to put down 20-25%...he/she is still indentured to the bank. Am I wrong???

Well I would rather be a indentured servant of a bank than a carrier.

The bank does not give a crap where the money comes from or if the thing is insured with X company where a carrier will.

The issue isn't if a Lease Purchase plan is good or not but whether the questions I and others asked will be answered but more importantly how much the carrier makes off of the deal.

Remember that with these leases, the carriers don't always carry the note. They make the arrangements, they do the settlement deductions and so on while raking in a profit through just administrating their program - a lot like a company directed 401k. With a carrier who has access to a crap load of used trucks, like through a broker, and has the ability to arrange this deal, it is a lucrative profit center for them.

Leasing is also a viable Tax strategy. It is called a Trac Lease for one type.

That depends, not all leases are tax friendly, there are a few that are not even considered something that can be written off.

 

[BillChaffey]

IF I understand this correctly, $.10 a mile, all miles goes to Panther for maintence. That's $10.00 per hundred miles is it not?. That would be quite expensive in a hurry.

 

[AutonomyRex]

Well I would rather be a indentured servant of a bank than a carrier.

The bank does not give a crap where the money comes from or if the thing is insured with X company where a carrier will.

The issue isn't if a Lease Purchase plan is good or not but whether the questions I and others asked will be answered but more importantly how much the carrier makes off of the deal.

Remember that with these leases, the carriers don't always carry the note. They make the arrangements, they do the settlement deductions and so on while raking in a profit through just administrating their program - a lot like a company directed 401k. With a carrier who has access to a crap load of used trucks, like through a broker, and has the ability to arrange this deal, it is a lucrative profit center for them.



That depends, not all leases are tax friendly, there are a few that are not even considered something that can be written off.

Absolutely, I don't disagree with you on that...I see carriers that send a driver to 3rd party truck broker..Those are crap, I've looked at them over the years....Many Leases are bad, set up for failuer, and pay so low I am suprised that any driver in his right mind would sign the lease...
I'm sure I mentioned in a post to compare as not all leases are good or equal...or something to that effect....and I did not mention an unfriendly lease if I recall, I mentioned a Trac Lease as my example.

In my example of my buddy's lease...The carrier is making about nil on the lease unless they got the 2006's for close to nothing, And they carry the note, as his payments over the 18 month term amounts to a bit shy of 18k...and YES, his lease is 100% written off as an expense. And yes, the carrier gets the depreciation...so maybe that is their profit. What they do get...Freight moved, which is the business his carrier is in.
He is not wet behind the ears to this business, and has been with his carrier as long as I have been with mine....that would be going on 12 years.

And as for being indentured to a bank or a carrier....you get the correct lease ( a walk away without penalty )...I'll take that for my tractor over a bank, whom doesn't care where the money comes from, BUT does care if you walk away from the note.
And a single O/O does not have the buying power of a fleet, and thus will not get near the discounts. I'm also sure that banks DO CARE if the tractor is insured...much like they care if your personal auto is insured. Or am I reading you wrong?

Would you be interested in sharing the leases you refer to that are not "even considered something that can be wriiten off" so that drivers new to driving or considering leasing as an option can learn from you.? It would help me as well....because just because I don't have 25% to put down on a specialized outfitted tractor, doesn't mean I want to remain a company driver all my life.

What are some red flags you would notice?

Thx
A-Rex

 

[AutonomyRex]

IF I understand this correctly, $.10 a mile, all miles goes to Panther for maintence. That's $10.00 per hundred miles is it not?. That would be quite expensive in a hurry.

It may be a bit high, but not excessive...it really depends on what is offered by "Maintanence". If it covers all maint...scheduled and not, replacement tires, lube jobs...etc.etc,...possibly towing, emergency roadside service, the list goes on...the lease that I have referred to ( My Friend's ) goes into an account, which is drawn on as he sees fit...though also insures the carrier that the truck they are leasing out is getting serviced correctly/properly....his is .085, he never wrenches on anything when he is home...and he spends all of it on his truck to keep it 100%, his carrier doesn't touch it...it is in an interest earning account.

As a side note, even with a good lease, from a carrier, a driver usually has to lease the tractors that the carrier offers....seems these days it is Freightliner Columbias. Not my first choice..or second. But for the majority, they work for them just fine.

 

[AutonomyRex]

The issue isn't if a Lease Purchase plan is good or not but whether the questions I and others asked will be answered but more importantly how much the carrier makes off of the deal.
=======================================


I agree, I missed this part of your post...I too asked questions on the thread....only a few were answered....and I agree with many of the questions that you posed to Panther.

That said, Doing the Math on the weekly payments on a 2007 for 42 months....I'd say they would do quite well on the deal....
And who controls that maint money...and determines how it is spent, when it is spent, and where it is spent, will speak loads as well to the viability of the deal, in my eyes at least

Be safe out there
A-Rex

 

[greg334]

Your buddy's carrier is a bit different than Panther.

What I am seeing is a problem with flexiblity in the lease or better stated an anouncement with no fact to back it up. If Panther was say Schneider or Hunt or some other mainstream carrier where work is more or less plentiful, then I would concede it can be a good deal but for the average "expediter" who is locked into a strict contract with limited freight, and maybe in some cases not learning enough of the business to find freight on their own let alone understand how to price it to their advantage, it seems as situation where one needs to proceed with caution. For the desperate, they will jump into it without thinking and maybe get screwed in the long run or at least work without gaining much when the economy takes another dump.

 

[TS462]

i was doing the math aswell.... And right now i know that solos are getting on avg 1500 miles per week. And when i talked to chris about this he told me it was 1.40 plus .05 if you have a hazmat and he said the fsc was going right now about .28 to .33 cents per mile which unless i'm doing this wrong the truck is making around 1.70 a mile.. and he did tell me the leasing agent was out of indy he never gave the name of the company if that makes any difference.. so all not knowing the whole story as Paul Harvey would say i would find out more and then base off what i know not what other are guessed at Because knowing is the half the battle G I JOE said every sat morning

 

[Moot]

You're Joking right???

Only about the global warming stuff.

You think leasing a power unit is what drives down rates??? REALLY?

What I think is that people that have no money for a down payment and no reserve cash should not be purchasing a truck, especially a lease/purchase from a carrier. A carrier that controls your source of loads.

I believe the contracted rate quoted by somebody was $1.40/mile. What about the discounted rates and low f.s.c. loads. Financially desperate owners will run just to keep the wheels turning.

So it that what you think Panther is trying to do?

I'm not sure what Panther is trying to do. Details are rather sketchy. I can speculate:

a. Panther is having some difficulty recruiting and retaining tractor owners.

b. Panther is looking to make some money leasing used tractors.

c. Both a and c.

d. None of the above.

I don't know of any company out there offering leases on little vans or 33gvw straights....so it sure isn't Tractors driving your rates down.

I never said tractors were driving my rate down. This post is about Panther's lease/purchase plan for tractors. Although if you are pulling a trailer for $1.00/mile then you probably are affecting my rates.[/QUOTE]

Even if a driver were to put down 20-25%...he/she is still indentured to the bank. Am I wrong??? And even if you pay cash, outright...as a business person...do you not pay yourself back....cause surly, until you do, you have not turned a profit. So you are a servant to yourself.

Being indentured to a bank is completely different than being indentured to your carrier.

I have purchased two vans by borrowing from my local credit union. In both cases I put down a minimum of 25%, made my payments and received clear title at the end of the term.

My lender had no control or interest in what loads I accepted, where I went, when I was in service or what rate I was willing to haul for.

Bad leases are bad business decisions....and those drivers will go broke.

I agree! That one sentence says it all. I believe it is a poor business decision to lease a truck from the very people that are supplying you loads, hence the indentured servitude line.

Servitude: a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.

 

[AutonomyRex]

Your buddy's carrier is a bit different than Panther.

What I am seeing is a problem with flexiblity in the lease or better stated an anouncement with no fact to back it up. If Panther was say Schneider or Hunt or some other mainstream carrier where work is more or less plentiful, then I would concede it can be a good deal but for the average "expediter" who is locked into a strict contract with limited freight, and maybe in some cases not learning enough of the business to find freight on their own let alone understand how to price it to their advantage, it seems as situation where one needs to proceed with caution. For the desperate, they will jump into it without thinking and maybe get screwed in the long run or at least work without gaining much when the economy takes another dump.

I absolutely agree with you. Trying to use my limited writing skills to articulate what I wanted to voice was summed up in this post.

Be Safe
A-Rex

 

[jjoerger]

I wonder when they will start there own CDL school?

 

[Bruno]

I have a copy of the lease and to be honest with you, it's a pretty good lease. Our one tractor driver just leased one and the truck is really nice.

 

[Doggie Daddy]

Just reading this thread has got me wondering,where is Panther coming up with a supply of 2007 Freightliner Columbia's ?

And the only answer that I can come up with is the Select trucks (Freightliner) dealer in Brunswick,OH......BUYER BEWARE.

 

[Dakota]

Greg

I was told the lease is $375.00 a week plus .10 a mile for up keep like tires and pm services. The terms will be for 3.5 years with a dollar buyout.

I'll. Bet a tractor lease at Penske would be around the same price with all maintenance tires etc included including loaner trucks. Something to look at

 

[greg334]

Dave,
Anything can look good on paper, but without answering the questions that I asked, it is something that makes a lot of us wonder about.

Like Dakota said, it looks like maybe you can do this with Penske and to me you may come ahead of the game even if it is a little bit more.

 

[davekc]

Seems like a lot to speculate on when no one has seen this contract. I am not a fan of them in any shape or form. It was indicated the trucks were coming from Indy, but that is all I know.
As mentioned,
It would be advisable to look at this verses a Penske or similar setup. If that price is accurate, that number will be close to Penske except the Penske truck will be newer, have full maintenance, loaner, and no maintenance escrow.
The other part is with whom is one leasing? A outside source is always more beneficial than the one supplying the freight.
Too much information is really missing at this point to give a full opinion on it.
On a side note, I wonder if this will make it difficult for fleet owners with tractors? A thought to ponder.

 

[jjoerger]

My belief:
Never, ever, lease a truck from the company that controls how many loads you get. Too many what if's.

 

[Bruno]

Panther has nothing to do with the lease at all. All Panther does do is send them the lease payment out of your settlements. The service plan covers everything bumper to bumper but, the windsheld. All Pm Services, Tires, Brakes, repairs, and even all fuilds. The leasing company is out of Ind across from Frightliner.

 

[repojohn10]

Panther has nothing to do with the lease at all. All Panther does do is send them the lease payment out of your settlements. The service plan covers everything bumper to bumper but, the windsheld. All Pm Services, Tires, Brakes, repairs, and even all fuilds. The leasing company is out of Ind across from Frightliner.

I bet Panther has EVERYTHING to do with this leasing company. I'm sure the only reason they are agreeing with panther to lease trucks to them is the fact that panther promises to contract the trucks. That is the ONLY way a leasing company is going to allow a no down payment, no credit check, ya da, ya da. Its the promise from a carrier that the truck will always be recycled back to the road, no matter who signs that piece of paper.
However.....I agree, never lease from who supplies your revenue.

Also, I read something about that panther will take care of all services, tires, repairs....blah, blah, blah. Keep in mind the reason that .10 per ALL miles is in place is to cover THEIR cost when you park that truck. Yes, they owe it back to you, but TRUST ME, they will find any reason to "use" it on the truck and not write you a check.

Sounds fishy for sure. WAY too much speculation so far from us truck drivers to make that edjumakated guess!!! I just hope too many people don't go running just to "own" a truck.

I myself want nothing more then my own truck, have been in trucking for a good while and knows that it takes, BUT........I wouldn't jump to o/o unless I knew I had what it takes to survive..............CASH.

 

[idtrans]

LOL no way would I do this plan !

But ok so who pays the Road tax ?

Permits ?

Tolls ?

Base plates ?

IFTA ?


PS : Arrow truck sales will finance darn near anyone LMAO so go there and pick your own carrier people !

I know some companies pay tractor tolls, permits, road tax. And all other things like IFTA, Base plate.