I just got done replacing all of the bearings and seals in my vans rear end but I am still hearing a low whining noise from the side where the initial seal blew out. The guys at the shop told me that some rear ends make a little noise when they get older and that there is some special stuff I can put in there to get rid of the noise. I'm not sure what to do. The noise only presented after I did a complete differential flush a few weeks ago and we discovered the the leak all over the one side brake pads and rotor. The noise began that very day and it is still there even though everything in the rear end is put back together and looks good to the mechanic. No metal shavings were found in the spider gears and everything looks good visually, nice and clean. What do you guys think it could be a carrier bearing? I pulled the drive shaft and did not see much play. Also, there is no clunking noise when i lef off the accelerator, just the slight whining noise when i hit 30-50 miles per hour. Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated.
Need help with rear end issue.
- Thread starter blizzard2014
- Start date
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Sounds like you got a bearing hot when your fluid got low. Might have gotten a little hot.
Give it a couple thousand miles and see if there is any change in noise or play. If none don't worry about it.
Give it a couple thousand miles and see if there is any change in noise or play. If none don't worry about it.
Last edited:
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
dose that differential have full floating axles or retainer clip type axles with press on bearings? Did they change axle bearings? carrier and pinion bearings?
Since the noise was there before the work, and depending on which axles it has, id agree with purgoose...axle bearings will devolop noise over time and if you ran it hot, it would become more noticeable...run it and pay close attention for any change..if it remains the same, forget it. If you hear a change, then id change out the axle bearing....
One other thing to keep in mind, driveline noises "travel"...it might not be coming from where you think it is...
Since the noise was there before the work, and depending on which axles it has, id agree with purgoose...axle bearings will devolop noise over time and if you ran it hot, it would become more noticeable...run it and pay close attention for any change..if it remains the same, forget it. If you hear a change, then id change out the axle bearing....
One other thing to keep in mind, driveline noises "travel"...it might not be coming from where you think it is...
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Well there isn't anything to put into the rear end to make it quiet except sawdust. Any claim to make a rear end quiet is about the same as Obama being a libertarian.
If there is a whining noise, then it could be a problem with the preload on the pinion or the bearings are not seated correctly on the hubs. Or the hub is not preloaded with the right amount of force.
What bearings were replaces and did the old ones show any scoring or real wear?
Did you find the leak before or after the "flush"?
I don't flush anything unless I drag metal out of the bottom of the diff. Then if I do, I change the bearings and seals, putting in fresh oil.
Outside of that, I would have changed the oil by just draining it and putting fresh stuff in.
If there is a whining noise, then it could be a problem with the preload on the pinion or the bearings are not seated correctly on the hubs. Or the hub is not preloaded with the right amount of force.
What bearings were replaces and did the old ones show any scoring or real wear?
Did you find the leak before or after the "flush"?
I don't flush anything unless I drag metal out of the bottom of the diff. Then if I do, I change the bearings and seals, putting in fresh oil.
Outside of that, I would have changed the oil by just draining it and putting fresh stuff in.
Greeneyes
Not a Member
That's sort of what I'm thinking. A bearing might have gotten warped.
I think it is a semi floating rear end, but i'm not sure. The thing is there was no noise before the fluid was exchanged. Why would a warped bearing start making noise only after the fulid was changed out? It doesn't make any sense. I will ask the mechanic if the fluid was low because he never mentioned if it was low or not when they switched it out. I just can't get used to the unwanted axel banter "J/K" lol! I'm gonna sound like i'm flying in an aeroplane when dispatch calls with a load!
Well if a bearing got warped is that different than the spider gears? I can have the bearings replaced on the gears if necessary. I did replace both sides inner and outer wheel bearings and seals. Not sure where the other bearings are located but I will have to look into it. I'll have the other tire shop inspect the van again when I go for my new tires tomorrow morning then play it by ear! Literally. :-( Thanks for the advice!
I have to see what the second opinion is like tomorrow. I can just run it till she blows lol. I just don't want to have to deal with this crap on the road and the darn repair shops always mark crap up. I could have done a lot of this work myself but I don't have anywhere to work or anyone to help me do it. Thanks for the advice.
Semperfi3069
Seasoned Expediter
Pinion bearings turn 3-4 times faster than the carrier bearings. I say that so you understand that the pitch of the noise can help in diag which bearing(s) is the culprit. Generally the pinion bearings are the first to fail with lack of lube due to the additional turning speed, which equals heat. I have seen bearing failure in a quarter mile with a lack of lube. As for the spider gears, they are inside the carrier and generally do not have bearings, just a bushings that looks like a concave washer, as well as the side gears, unless you have a limited slip carrier. It will have frictions and steels splined to the outer area of the side gears, and the axles are splined to the inside of the side gear. There are three necessary adjustments when setting up a diff. Pinion depth, pinion bearing preload and carrier/ring gear back lash. If any of those measurements are out of spec, say due to bearing failure. Gear whine will occur. And Greg your right, saw dust is probably the only additive to minimize noise. And if the person working on tells you different, kindly ask them to lower your vehicle and pull it around so you can leave. That person is a "hack".
Well in all my rambling, I can only hope I helped and not make matters worse.
Well in all my rambling, I can only hope I helped and not make matters worse.
Semperfi3069
Seasoned Expediter
Oh, I failed to mention, not that I should have to, because you all are intelligent people. But just to clarify things, saw dust should never added to any fluid on your vehicle. Feel silly for even mentioning that.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
Sawdust is an old trick used to quiet things up, been used since the 20's.
OK first thing - forget Lucas, unless you want to trash your rear axle, forget it. Lucas is great if you want to sell it but to use it is another story.
Second thing it is a semi-floating axle but with that said, the wheel end of thing has two bearings and has to also be preloaded, it is not like a US made axle where you press off the bearing and press the new one on, takes a little more than that with some 'special' tools. This sounds like the bearing was improperly installed and there is a problem with the preload on the bearings themselves - a possibly dangerous issue. Unless it is a sprinter mechanic working on it, it won't be done right because of the little crappy things that one needs to know. You can screw up the axle bearings by improperly pressing then in/out to change the seal and if the bearings are not torqued to the right specs (370 ft lbs if I remember right) then you will have problems with it.
IF you want to run with the bearings ****** ***, tell me so when your wheel comes off, I am not on the road.
Now with that said, there is a lot more to the bearing story that most can grasp, it is a science all on its own. Oil is important and regular changes of that oil help but if there is no metal (meaning putting a magnet down in the bottom of the differential housing and pulling up metal) then do not flush. If you are rebuilding the entire axle, then flush it clean with it all apart. Flushing does not guarantee cleanness, it will sometimes throw more crap up into the bearing cages and cause more problems in the long run. And because there is a 'sediment' on the bottom of the housing which doesn't get disturbed, wiping that out and putting fresh oil in is the only real thing to do.
I know many of you will disagree with me but I don't have to worry about it, I have 100 years of axle engineering from the companies who make the axles behind my position while flushing is a gimic to drawn in more money for the quickie oil change places.
OK first thing - forget Lucas, unless you want to trash your rear axle, forget it. Lucas is great if you want to sell it but to use it is another story.
Second thing it is a semi-floating axle but with that said, the wheel end of thing has two bearings and has to also be preloaded, it is not like a US made axle where you press off the bearing and press the new one on, takes a little more than that with some 'special' tools. This sounds like the bearing was improperly installed and there is a problem with the preload on the bearings themselves - a possibly dangerous issue. Unless it is a sprinter mechanic working on it, it won't be done right because of the little crappy things that one needs to know. You can screw up the axle bearings by improperly pressing then in/out to change the seal and if the bearings are not torqued to the right specs (370 ft lbs if I remember right) then you will have problems with it.
IF you want to run with the bearings ****** ***, tell me so when your wheel comes off, I am not on the road.
Now with that said, there is a lot more to the bearing story that most can grasp, it is a science all on its own. Oil is important and regular changes of that oil help but if there is no metal (meaning putting a magnet down in the bottom of the differential housing and pulling up metal) then do not flush. If you are rebuilding the entire axle, then flush it clean with it all apart. Flushing does not guarantee cleanness, it will sometimes throw more crap up into the bearing cages and cause more problems in the long run. And because there is a 'sediment' on the bottom of the housing which doesn't get disturbed, wiping that out and putting fresh oil in is the only real thing to do.
I know many of you will disagree with me but I don't have to worry about it, I have 100 years of axle engineering from the companies who make the axles behind my position while flushing is a gimic to drawn in more money for the quickie oil change places.
chefdennis
Veteran Expediter
What bearings were replaced??? You said in your 1st post ALL bearings...then asked about the carrier bearings..so did you have ALL of them replaces, axle, carrier and pinion? As was said, if the pinion bearing was replaced , the preload could be off probably off and yes when tarved for oil, the pinion is usually the 1st to go bad as said because it is the lowest in the case. The semi floating axle bearings are pressed on the axle..they also need to be "set? in the proper spot or will make noise.
You had the noise after the flush...then had the bearings replaced...you could be hearing what sounds like the same noise, but it might not be. Messing with bearings is a scince in its self as far as preloads and proper setup....so you could be hearing a totally new noise...and as i said, bearing noise "travels"....
Flushing the diff (which as said there is no reason to do unless it is contaminated) wouldn't cause a noise..the new lube might be "thinner" (in viscosity) or as Paul said, there may have been an additive in it and you just didn't hear it to begin with, but 90 weight gear oil is hard to thin out and wear out...and ive never heard of it "wearing" out, hence no need to "flush" it....unless you have had a leak over time and ran it low..then you will over heat it, thin it out and the bearings wll over heat, but a good rear axle mechanic will see the signs of a over heated bearing and wouldn't tell you very thing looks good....
Getting a 2nd opinion is a good idea, but personally, id continue to drive it and pay real close attention to the noise and look for any changes in pitch and volume...if it gets worse, you will find where it is coming from...and with bearing noise, sometimes that the only way to find it....
If you want to get over listening to the noise, come ride with me for a week...the rear tires on the Cargo Max (Bridgestone open off road thread and hard compound) are so noisy that I thought the whole rear axle was bad....Talked to a canadian that has a Cargo Max, he said the same thing....Ill will run them though the winter and they will be replaced in the spring ...After listing to this noise for a week, you won't even notice a low whine in the rear end...
You had the noise after the flush...then had the bearings replaced...you could be hearing what sounds like the same noise, but it might not be. Messing with bearings is a scince in its self as far as preloads and proper setup....so you could be hearing a totally new noise...and as i said, bearing noise "travels"....
Flushing the diff (which as said there is no reason to do unless it is contaminated) wouldn't cause a noise..the new lube might be "thinner" (in viscosity) or as Paul said, there may have been an additive in it and you just didn't hear it to begin with, but 90 weight gear oil is hard to thin out and wear out...and ive never heard of it "wearing" out, hence no need to "flush" it....unless you have had a leak over time and ran it low..then you will over heat it, thin it out and the bearings wll over heat, but a good rear axle mechanic will see the signs of a over heated bearing and wouldn't tell you very thing looks good....
Getting a 2nd opinion is a good idea, but personally, id continue to drive it and pay real close attention to the noise and look for any changes in pitch and volume...if it gets worse, you will find where it is coming from...and with bearing noise, sometimes that the only way to find it....
If you want to get over listening to the noise, come ride with me for a week...the rear tires on the Cargo Max (Bridgestone open off road thread and hard compound) are so noisy that I thought the whole rear axle was bad....Talked to a canadian that has a Cargo Max, he said the same thing....Ill will run them though the winter and they will be replaced in the spring ...After listing to this noise for a week, you won't even notice a low whine in the rear end...
Semperfi3069
Seasoned Expediter
Wow Greg,you're older than I thought. 100 years of experience ..... just messing with you.
I do agree with you on the "diff flush". Metal or water contamination would be the only necessary reason for a fluid change.
I do agree with you on the "diff flush". Metal or water contamination would be the only necessary reason for a fluid change.
Greeneyes
Not a Member
I don't recommend using sawdust at all. It's the same as adding extremely heavy weight oil to conceal the sound of pings or knocks in the engine.
Not a remedy at all, but a concealment to allow the car/truck to sell.
greg334
Veteran Expediter
I said - I know many of you will disagree with me but I don't have to worry about it, I have 100 years of axle engineering from the companies who make the axles behind my position while flushing is a gimic to drawn in more money for the quickie oil change places.
maybe you missed that, but I am glad I am not 100 years old.
I didn't add the water contamination because how many times do we wade into or out of a shipper?
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Something caught my eye. You said it made no noise before he changed the fluid. Did he fill it up?? Are you sure he put enough back in??
Not sure if he did but i'll have it checked in a few minutes at firestone. It had been leaking for some time because I kept on smelling differential fluid, so this might be of my own doing. If anything i'll get to the bottom of it with a fist foll of more dollars. I think it is filled up right though because they fill it until oil starts dribbling out of the hole there the nut goes.
purgoose10
Veteran Expediter
Filling a Chevy to overflow does not fill it after overhauling. You have to turn the wheels several times and get the fluid out to the axles then top it off. It's best to run it around the block come back then top it off. A lot of gearing gets lost when people don't do that.