NATIONWIDE SATELLITE LOG BOOKS

highway star

Veteran Expediter
Owner/Operator
T-Hawk, while this situation may not qualify as pre-meditated murder, the driver was at a level of violation that absolutly deserves severe punishment. This clearly shows that saftey concerns trump any concern about income being controlled. AS an analogy, this guy was'nt just doing 5 over the limit, he was engaged in the worst kind of careless driving imaginable. If he were 20 minutes over because he was trying to get to a truckstop to shut down and he had a fender bender because someone pulled out in front of him, of course the penalty would'nt be as severe. That driver needs to have the book thrown at him as hard as possible. Twice.

As too what the answer is for a set of rules that truly make sense, that's a tough one. As I've said before, there is no "one size fits all". A driver can be in violation and not be a danger to anyone. It is obviously a joke to suggest that at 10.75 hours a driver is safe, but at 11.15 he is a danger. I do believe that the continuous clock is stupid and taking 5 and 5 away from teams is stupid.
 

kwexpress

Veteran Expediter
KW Express
o/o till i die

I to have had alot of problems with companies Ive worked for in the past even had to file bankruptcy.

But I will never give up on trucking its what I love to do.ups and downs with turnarounds

one day I will have it down to perfection.I do find it seems with every set back there is another door that opens.
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>Most of the negativity I portray here is to counter the
>rose-colored view some claim the industry is all about.

I trust you are not talking about me. As you know, I write stories about our experiences on the road and publish them on the Internet (see "Writings" link in my signature). As you also know, Diane and I are thrilled to have left our white collar carrers behind for the expediting careers we enjoy today. That does not mean bad things do not happen to us. But in this business as in most others, attitude is everything. Bad things happen to us as they happen to every other expediter, but we try to not let it get us down when they do.

It is simply not true that I write only about the good parts of expediting. I write about it all. But unlike some, I don't magnify it to a gross miscarriage of justice if a load cancels. I don't believe my carrier's dispatchers play favorites. And I cannot quote a single statement from any recruiter at any carrier that we talked to that would count as a lie. In other words, the world is not out to get us, and the bad things that happen to us are not other people's fault.

That is not to say that we have not been hurt by unfair dispatch actions. We have. It is not to say that recruiters have not lied to others. They may well have (can't say from personal experience or one-side-of-the-story reports). It is not to say that we have not been stranded for days at at time by a load we accepted in good faith only to have it cancel out from under us. We have.

The difference in the joy we find in expediting and the gloom some others find is simply a difference in attitude. The circumstances are the same. The response to them differs.

There are of course times when the bad things that happen to us are indeed other people's fault - as in the numerous vendor failures we encountered when we built our truck - but when such things happen, we look first for a solution and a way to get us back on track. When people let us down or industry developments rise that are not in our favor, we do not cite it as evidence that the deck is stacked against us. We accept it as part of the game, adapt, and move on to achieve our previously-set goals.

Regarding the rose-colored view, I invite you to read a piece I wrote for people researching the indsutry, "Introduction to Expediting."

http://www.expeditersonline.com/downloads/introduction.pdf

It is a fair and balanced introduction to the trade. Topics discussed include: Spending weeks away from home; responsibility to do your own bookeeping, taxes, etc.; the possibility that you may live to regret your decision to become an expediter; the need to maintain a positive attitude even when having bad days; the need to have the self discipline to keep up with your truck maintenance and business paperwork before running off for tourist fun; the fact that trucking is one of the nation's most dangerous professions and that traffic accidents, injuries at loading docks and street crime are an ongoing risk; compliance burdens; privacy invasions that come from having your truck searched; 24/7 working hours; the uncertainty of not knowing where your next load will take you; problems with delivering loads in remote areas (getting back); having meals, laundry, and showers interrupted by immediate load offers and ASAP pickups; waiting for loads in severe weather conditions; parking challenges; relationship challenges (teams); the human-failure risks fleet owners and drivers take when they get involved with each other; the possibility that you might go bankrupt; unpredictability of income; performance requirements; dealing with unpleasant situations and/or people at loading docks; the fact that some consider the work to be hard; and the importance of research and preparation before jumping in.

Rose-colored view? I don't think so.

Consider further the most recent story I posted on my web site, "Redwoods and Rhododendrons."

http://successfulexpediters.com/Madsen/MadsenStory008c.htm

It is a story about the interest we take in our work and a joyous Diane I had in a glorious park while waiting for freight. In and of itself, it would be a rose-colored story. But there is more.

The story also talks about a long-slow 55 mph drive up I-5 (a bad thing); a brief moment of tension brought to the loading dock by the consignees; irregular sleep hours; doing a generator oil change in a truck stop parking lot; the inability to do it sooner because of a busy schedule or bad weather; being careful to minimize the risk of being run over by the truck parked next to me as I worked on the generator; the difficulty of having a civil conversation in the noisy truck stop parking lot; more irregular sleep hours (going to bed before sunset); being ready to haul freight but finding none to haul; worry on Thursday about being stranded in Seattle over a weekend; the desire to go to a park but the uncertainty about being able to drive a truck there (truck route, weight restrictions, etc.); keeping a wary eye out for commercial-vehicle or truck-parking restrictions; the need to protect your personal information and business data when both of us are away from the truck, in case the truck is towed, stolen, or burns; the need to maintain constant contact with dispatch when you are away from the truck (cell phone signal issues); the fact that our day in the park was a forced second-choice since our first choice (freight to haul) was not possible; more irregular sleep; receiving a good load offer that tied the truck up for a day only to have it cancel the next day, reducing the previous day to wasted, non-compensated in-sevice day (my exact words were, "We did our part. Why couldn't dispatch do theirs? We have suffered an injustice. This isn't fair. Someone owes us something more than dry run pay! Grrrrrrr!!!!!"); anxiety about parking tickets; anxiety caused by seeing a local cop parked behind our truck; spending nights in parking lots; the need to deadhead to another city; the fact that our less-than-seventy-five status from the canceled load put us ahead of other trucks who had more waiting time than us (bad news for them); and the uncertainty about the results your load acceptance and deadhead strategies may produce.

Yes, we had a joyous time waiting for freight in Seattle, but I did not write about the joy only. I believe you will find that in most of the stories I write; a balanced accounting of the good and the bad, written by someone who has a positive attitude. While you may have more experiences to report than me, mine are as real and valid as yours.

If you believe I write only about the positive aspects of expediting, there is little I can do about that inaccurate perception. The words are clearly there. If you don't see them when you read my stuff, that's on you, not me.

My approach is more honest than yours, Tennesseahawk. You serve no one by telling only half the story. If you enjoy your work but keep the good to yourself and talk only about the bad, you are telling half-truths about expediting. Half-truths serve no one well.

As expediters in the field, it is not our job to manipulate the expectations of people who are researching the industry. It is our job to tell the whole truth about the whole story and share the facts so they can form realistic expectations of their own.

People vary widely in their abilities. What is realistic some is unrealistic for others. People considering a career change into expediting and ask questions about it are mostly strangers to us. There is no way we can know what is realistic for them and what is not. The best we can do for them is to share our experiences, accurately, fairly, and fully; encourage them to do good research, encourage them to read multiple views from multiple expediters, and let them figure out the rest for themselves.
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
Trucks with paperless logs and a qc are tracked the minute the truck moves. If you drive 20 minutes acrossed town, the 14 clock started.

As far as penalties, I would say keep them the same and some would be based on circumstance. If one kills someone, it is mostly viewed as manslaughter in one degree or the other. A capital offense has to show clear intent to kill.
What do you do with a guy that for example has a accident on the east coast and was searching endlessly for a parking spot and has a accident while in the middle of his search? The arguement could be made that he should know in advance where to park. It is not quite that easy for a variety of reasons.

As for experience, it is obvious that it is needed in the final set of rule making. The HOS of service as they currently stand are a mess. That is a direct result of having inexperienced and unknowledgable people making the changes. New people can certainly offer ideas but the final rules should be from experts in the industry.

Certainly a difficult issue.










Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

ATeam

Senior Member
Retired Expediter
>I believe there have been many good points made heree, both
>for and against a nationwide satellite log book.
>Either way, I do feel we must do something to increase the
>burden of responsibilty on the driver AND the companies.
>The MAIN and sometimes only excuse I hear from some is that
>they do not want the feds or anyone who has never drove a
>truck tell them what they can do, or, it would be a
>financial burden on the driver and the company.

All truck drivers are not as articulate as you are, chuckwagon. While their voices say the feds should butt out, there is far more in their hearts than that. Before dismissing the excuses you cite, you might want to spend sime time really listening to what is behind the words. Talk at length with some drivers and try to figure out why they distrust the feds. If you are going to take it upon yourself to regulate truck drivers, you owe them a fair hearing and a sincere effort to understand their point of view. Before running off to the government to save the world, you might try breaking bread with a dozen or so truck drivers, and keeping at it until you are confident that you understand and can accurately state back their point of view.


>Explicit short-term financial burdens on the industry may be
>counter-balanced by long-term improvements in safety.
>Improvements in safety performance can lead to lower
>insurance rates, reduced cargo damage, and better service
>reliability.

If you were actually effective in keeping driver hours to legal limits and if your fix was felt industry wide, freight prices would rise as driver productivity would decline. To keep drivers on board, carriers would have to pay them more for driving less miles. If all carriers were on board with running legal, those costs would be passed on to shippers and ultimately the consumers who use the shippers' products. It would not be a financial burden if compliant running was practiced by all drivers and carriers.

>Regulatory measures that effectively remedy market failures
>ultimately improve social welfare.

It is also true that regulations have unintended consequences. It is unwise to assume you have the answer in satellite log books. I for one do not believe you do.

>I will push for this change in the form of a nationwide
>satellite log book and or a major change in penalties,
>fines, and placing someone out of service for longer
>periods, license suspensions, etc.!
>Who is with me on this!

Not me.

As a political activist I have been more effective than most (click my bio link below). Both as a government outsider and insider I have a pretty good idea of what it takes to change the status quo and how to do it. I also have a documented track record of doing it.

While you heart may be in the right place and intentions are good, you are missing major portions of the picture. That blindness will likely lead to rejection from most trucking industry sectors and a failed attempt.

Your position and eagerness may endear you to highway safety organizations that most truckers consider wrong headed, and many truckers hate. But there is no good reason for you, a driver yourself, to go down that path. If you are willing to be flexible on the method (satellite technology), there are better ways to achieve the safety objectives you seek.

You have been told by another driver, "...join OOIDA, run compliant." I'm saying at least get to know OOIDA and consider, as an educational start, working with them to improve highway safety. Their "Run Compliant" initiatiaves are praiseworthy. This is a truck driver organization rising to change truck driver behavior for the better and to pressure shippers and carriers for positive change.
 

RichM

Veteran Expediter
Charter Member
Some of these posts remind me of the boxer Mohammed Ali when he was in his prime. Can you all remember him constanly proclaiming "I am the Greatest"..
 

rode2rouen

Expert Expediter
>Some of these posts remind me of the boxer Mohammed Ali
>when he was in his prime. Can you all remember him constanly
>proclaiming "I am the Greatest"..



My personal favorite was: "I'll hit you so hard, when you wake up your clothes will be out of style!"


Rex
 

LDB

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
There should be a point where the elderly are tested more frequently than those who are younger. Once they fail the test they should no longer drive. If they drive illegally after losing the privilege they should also receive extremely severe consequences.

CDL holders should be held most accountable because they are the supposed professionals. Standards should be higher and failures should be held more accountable.

This should not be accomplished by snapping a house arrest bracelet around every driver's ankle as this thread suggests. It should be done by applying understandable and reasonable regulations as well as identifying specific severe consequences for blatant violations. Only those who knowingly and by choice violate the regulations should be punished and the punishment should be severe for severe violations.

Leo Bricker, 73's K5LDB, OOIDA 677319
Owner, Panther trucks 5507, 5508, 5509
Highway Watch Participant, Truckerbuddy
EO Forum Moderator
----------
Support the entire Constitution, not just the parts you like.
 

kempers_gramp

Expert Expediter
>If you were actually effective in keeping driver hours to
>legal limits and if your fix was felt industry wide, freight
>prices would rise as driver productivity would decline. To
>keep drivers on board, carriers would have to pay them more
>for driving less miles. If all carriers were on board with
>running legal, those costs would be passed on to shippers
>and ultimately the consumers who use the shippers' products.
>It would not be a financial burden if compliant running was
>practiced by all drivers and carriers.


YEA ITS CALLED THE LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND........BABY!!!!!!
Let the market correct itself!!!!!!! IT WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AND WE'LL ALL MAKE A TON MORE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>As a political activist I have been more effective than most
>(click my bio link below). Both as a government outsider and
>insider I have a pretty good idea of what it takes to change
>the status quo and how to do it. I also have a documented
>track record of doing it.
>

I'D SAY TOOT TOOT PHIL, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALREADY TOOTED YOUR OWN HORN!

>
>You have been told by another driver, "...join OOIDA, run
>compliant." I'm saying at least get to know OOIDA and
>consider, as an educational start, working with them to
>improve highway safety. Their "Run Compliant" initiatiaves
>are praiseworthy. This is a truck driver organization rising
>to change truck driver behavior for the better and to
>pressure shippers and carriers for positive change.


HEY........HOW ABOUT WE AS DRIVERS CONCERNED ABOUT OURSELVES, AND THOSE AROUND US, ALONG WITH THE SAFETY OF OTHERS ON THE ROAD. JUST SAY NO TO OFFERS THAT WILL BREAK THE LAWS THAT HAVE BEEN PUT INTO ACTION AND AT TIMES ARE ENFORCED TO PROTECT US AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC!!!!! I AGREE LET'S TRY NOT TO FORGET TO SUPPORT ORGANIZATIONS SUCH AS OOIDA THAT ACTUALLY HAVE THE INTEREST OF THE DRIVERS AND OWNER OPERATORS IN MIND.

HERES A NOVEL IDEA.......
THINK ABOUT IT IS AS "JUST SAYING 'NO' TO CHEAP FREIGHT".

That's right, when we bend and break the law we are promoting cheap freight, so in the long run we all make less money!!!!!!!
 

greg334

Veteran Expediter
You know that many of you can b*tch and complain but many of you actually don’t do much to change things. I am serious about this, so if you are offended, well do something about it - get involved.

How many of you wrote to a congressman or senator that is on the oversight committees for transportation and energy? Maybe your congressman or senator is on one of the many committees that can have some influence. Don’t give me this c**p that your vote don’t count, it does and always did but it is up to you to understand the issues that affect you, seek out people who also feel the same way and do something about it. The VOTE is not a given to lead to a dead end - if you fell into the idea that that big business and lobbyist have control of the congress, well read on.

What I find really intriguing is the idea that OOIDA will take the place of your letter, vote, call or visit – it does not in any way shape or form. Collective voices only work for liberal organizations and unions because they know the little dirty secrets that motivate lawmakers and voters, just look at moveon.org and their tactics. I mentioned the DNC and their emails in one of my posts, I subscribe to them because they are better at illustrating tactics than the republicans (who I don’t subscribe to any of their emails). Are the truckers and transportation professionals organized like these people? No and will never be because of the independence attitude that has been entrenched in the industry. But imagine if we were organized like that, imagine what could be done. Moveon.org is one of many that know what it takes to mobilize voters about issues that THEY feel are important. Just like some of the stupid environmental organization communicate with congress more than the truckers do, even the small ones – they all know what matters, the VOTE.

As for the idea to regulate safety into the industry, well this has been going on since the late 40’s and one problem that I see is the driving license requirements and training starting with the new drivers first. Well I can go on and on about the problems, but I am too bored to do so.

Phil, not to impugn your contribution to the political world but there is a lot more in the great political world than working at the state level. I think you know what we can do to effect change and you even posted here about it but at the federal level it gets a bit more complicated. Tooting your own horn is great and I am trying not to be disrespectful and curious; have you done anything since in politics?

OK to those who keep saying no to cheap freight, some of us realize that the freight is going to move regardless what we want to happen. There are companies that can and do absorb the cost so to make a name for themselves and move into areas that the competition refuses to reduce rates to create revenue. The down side is that many of us can’t make it with changing markets where we don’t have consultants that can forecast trends accurately and set make/break points for rates. It is sad that we can’t collectively do something about it but many of us have to make some money and many more don’t care. For one thing, it all depending on OUR business model, if it is cheap to you and it may not be cheap to someone else, they will take it.
 

rode2rouen

Expert Expediter
>
>What I find really intriguing is the idea that OOIDA will
>take the place of your letter, vote, call or visit – it
>does not in any way shape or form.
>

I can only speak for myself, but the OOIDA is a LOUD voice that can add to my small voice when dealing with the POWERS THAT BE regarding transportation industry issues. That LOUD voice is only as strong as we, the members, make it.

If you are not a member, go to the site: www.ooida.com and read about the issues that are confronting the small business trucker today. Keep in mind that one of the loudest voices in the ears of the State and Federal Governments, on transportation industry issues, is the American Trucking Assn. These people do not have the small business trucker's best interests in their agenda.

Having the office phone #s of my Senators, Congressman, Governor and State Representatives on speed-dial in my cell phone and their e-mail addys in my 'pooter allows for quick response when needed for what ever the issue may be.

Support the OOIDA
Run Compliant
Say "NO" To Cheap Freight


Rex
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
It would seem better that if one is into self promotion of ones great political past, that expertise would be better applied to current causes. That benefits everyone in the industry. Convincing members of past events just doesn't do much.
This is a place where experience would be of great value to a organization like OOIDA.
If your going to TOOT....do it for the right reason.






Davekc
owner
22 years
PantherII
EO moderator
 

kempers_gramp

Expert Expediter
>As for the idea to regulate safety into the industry, well
>this has been going on since the late 40’s and one problem
>that I see is the driving license requirements and training
>starting with the new drivers first. Well I can go on and on
>about the problems, but I am too bored to do so.
>
I couldn't agree with you more on the idea of regulating the license requirements and training, more so the training. Alot of drivers don't have the proper training or experience to do what is necessary to run safely or compliant. Hell, even some of the "old timers" don't understand the new HOS regs., and they are easier to understand than before the most recent revision.


>OK to those who keep saying no to cheap freight, some of us
>realize that the freight is going to move regardless what we
>want to happen. There are companies that can and do absorb
>the cost so to make a name for themselves and move into
>areas that the competition refuses to reduce rates to create
>revenue. The down side is that many of us can’t make it
>with changing markets where we don’t have consultants that
>can forecast trends accurately and set make/break points for
>rates. It is sad that we can’t collectively do something
>about it but many of us have to make some money and many
>more don’t care. For one thing, it all depending on OUR
>business model, if it is cheap to you and it may not be
>cheap to someone else, they will take it.

I also agree that "cheap freight" will still move. However as I stated earlier, by breaking the law to do so, one is only making the "value" of hauling freight less valuable to all.
 

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
Greg... I can't believe what I just read. I believe the NRA and the oil companies know the dirty little secrets on the Republican side. Don't go calling lobbyist a "Democrat only" sin.

But I do agree with your assessment that proper training is the FIRST and BIGGEST step in safety regarding truckers. Once we get rid of the wannabe yahoos driving around as Werner, Swift, and JB self-proclaimed professionally trained drivers, we're half way there. The other half being a COMMON SENSE HOS, which gives flexibility while still maintaining adequate rest. What we have now is an excuse for us to play with our logbooks.

"If I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know." - Kansas
 

jrcarroll

Expert Expediter
>Some of the large truck load carriers use "paperless" logs.
>Werner is one and I believe there are others.
>
>I'm still waiting for the day when vans are required to log,
>paperless or otherwise.
>
Personally, I dont think those days are very far off for vans.
As a driver I do think it would be good.
.....And yes I do run log book EVERY day.
 
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