Naming Bad Fleet Owners

tylturtle · Dec 4, 2010

Well it is probably not a good thing to name names etc. The problam I have is with the carriers looking the other way when they know the fleet owner has not paid in the past and they continue to recruit people and place them in the trucks.
At that point the carrier should bear some responsibility since they knowingly placed a drive with somone who doent pay.
We were not paid by our owner along with three other teams and the carrier knew this but yet thier was somone in our old truck the very next week.
Some might say it was the drivers fault for no pay but this is 3 different teams that didnt even know each other they just happened to quit at the same time for the same reasons slow pay and no pay.
How long will the carrier let this continue ?

davekc · Dec 4, 2010

Simply put, there is no incentive for the carrier to get involved.
With less trucks becoming available to recruit, the carriers tolerate it to keep trucks in their fleets.
I don't like it any more than another decent fleet owner as we sometimes are lumped together.
Drivers have to thoroughly check who they are going to work with. Certainly covered on this site a thousand times over.
Just a fact of doing business today.

greg334 · Dec 4, 2010

Why do people think that drivers are placed by the carrier?

Dave, I talked to a legal professional who deals with labor issues and they were clear about two things;

when a carrier gets involved beyond the contract on behalf of a driver, they become an employer of the driver.

when a carrier gets involved on a payment dispute, the owner can take legal action against them because it goes beyond the contractual obligation of the carrier.

davekc · Dec 4, 2010

greg334 said:
Why do people think that drivers are placed by the carrier?

Dave, I talked to a legal professional who deals with labor issues and they were clear about two things;

when a carrier gets involved beyond the contract on behalf of a driver, they become an employer of the driver.

when a carrier gets involved on a payment dispute, the owner can take legal action against them because it goes beyond the contractual obligation of the carrier.

You are correct. That is why I said the carrier has no incentive to get involved. The bad news is that this will get worse before it gets better. High unemployment, shrinking driver and equipment pool will all contribute to it.

tylturtle · Dec 4, 2010

I am not saying they get involved.Carrier do place drivers when you call a recruiter and they give an owners name they recomend them and based on that you assume they are good owners we were even told this guy was a good owner and I bet the new guy going into his truck was told the same thing.
When they have a deadbeat owner they can no contract with him anymore Yes I know its less trucks for them but it doesnt leave so many people with a bad taste in thier mouth and word of mouth can eventuallyh kill a company so they do in fact have alot to loose.

davekc · Dec 4, 2010

tylturtle said:
I am not saying they get involved.Carrier do place drivers when you call a recruiter and they give an owners name they recomend them and based on that you assume they are good owners we were even told this guy was a good owner and I bet the new guy going into his truck was told the same thing.
When they have a deadbeat owner they can no contract with him anymore Yes I know its less trucks for them but it doesnt leave so many people with a bad taste in thier mouth and word of mouth can eventuallyh kill a company so they do in fact have alot to loose.

I certainly understand your thinking but that is not how carriers really look at that relationship. They recruit drivers for ANY and ALL available trucks. Unless they are or feel they are loosing something, I doubt you will see any kind of change.

davekc · Dec 4, 2010

OntarioVanMan said:
Until a carrier is taken to court for their part in supplying a driver to an owner suspect in treating the drivers poorly ie: numerous complaints and no follow up...

Read Greg's post. There is no obligation for the carrier to follow up on anything. That is why they don't.
There is no liability for providing a name. Same as if I told you to buy a Hino because I thought they were decent.

cheri1122 · Dec 4, 2010

tylturtle said:
I am not saying they get involved.Carrier do place drivers when you call a recruiter and they give an owners name they recomend them and based on that you assume they are good owners we were even told this guy was a good owner and I bet the new guy going into his truck was told the same thing.
When they have a deadbeat owner they can no contract with him anymore Yes I know its less trucks for them but it doesnt leave so many people with a bad taste in thier mouth and word of mouth can eventuallyh kill a company so they do in fact have alot to loose.

If you went to Best Buy & dropped a few grand on a tv or stereo that the salesperson said was a good one, would you have any claim against him/her if you decided a few weeks afterward that it wasn't 'all that'?
Recruiters are salespeople too, and there are no guarantees they're telling you the absolute truth [though the smart ones are].
Buyer beware. Do your own research/homework, so you know how to spot the lies, and confirm the truth.

greg334 · Dec 4, 2010

Not trying to scare you away but here is where you are wrong.

tylturtle said:
I am not saying they get involved.Carrier do place drivers when you call a recruiter and they give an owners name they recomend them ...

First they are involve if they are placing drivers. BUT THEY DO NOT PLACE DRIVERS - that is an employee/employer thing.

Here is how another industry does it.

A contracting house gets a call from a company who needs a worker who can do X. They search out the worker who can do X and offer them a job. They employ that worker to that company based on the trust that the contracting house does its Due Diligence and that worker is qualified to do X. THIS is a placement. The worker is qualified by the contracting house, the contracting house than provides that resource to the company and the worker is an employee of the contracting house.

IF the worker is needed at another company who will provide them more money, then that worker is placed at the other company and the first company goes to another contracting house to find another worker who can do X. This is also a placement.

The carrier has the relationship with the owner, the owner can not qualify the driver, hence has to depend on the carrier to provide the resources to qualify the driver to drive for that carrier. Beyond that, the carrier assume absolutely no responsibility or should and if they do it goes right back to my other post - the carrier assumes the employer role.

tylturtle said:
When they have a deadbeat owner they can no contract with him anymore Yes I know its less trucks for them but it doesnt leave so many people with a bad taste in thier mouth and word of mouth can eventuallyh kill a company so they do in fact have alot to loose.

Well first the contract with the owner by the carrier is set by law, they can terminate the contract but in reality they better have a good reason.

Second I will again repeat this, this is a business and drivers are contractors. IT is their job to check out the owner, not the carrier. It is their job to ensure that they pay taxes, make sure they are legal and more so protect themselves.

THIS business has been sold by carriers and 'successful' O/Os as a great way to make a living while being on vacation. Only a few can claim that and those are the exceptions to all of this.

I will say this too, many of us are here to tell you that you have to arm yourself with the right tools and that is a lawyer and an accountant before you venture into this mess.

davekc · Dec 4, 2010

OntarioVanMan said:
I see it as the carrier is an agent for the owner..they take the apps, do all the checking up, take all the info....they even have the keys to the unit in some cases when the truck is parked in the yard.....a good lawyer could connect the dots....

None of what you mentioned would be considered a endorsement of a fleet owner. Nothing more than a service or DOT requirement that is provided. Nothing more, nothing less. A "good lawyer" wouldn't even consider it.
And that is why you have never seen this taken to court, and likely you wont.

davekc · Dec 4, 2010

No problem.

TS462 · Dec 5, 2010

If this was any other sight other than EQ would we even have have this post. I think that anyone should have the right the say what he/she thinks... Too many people are so gun shy to tell it like it is.. Because everyone has became so sue happy... And too worried about what someone else might say... Were all adults in here so why treat everything with kid gloves why not just tell like it is... Bad drivers And or Bad owners... Really if you think about it if you let the cat out of the bag.. You could be helping another driver or owner by saying this guy just sucks and this is why... There is a post in here now with over 900 replies and over 24,000 views... I'm sure if someone wanted to take the time they could figure out.. Who was telling the white lie to look good just my thought

greg334 · Dec 5, 2010

You know for years this subject has been going on and on, so here is my solution;

NO MORE FLEET OWNERS and NO MORE DRIVERS.

You want to get into this business, get a job, save your money and buy a truck.

Problem solved!

highway star · Dec 5, 2010

TS462 said:
If this was any other sight other than EQ would we even have have this post. I think that anyone should have the right the say what he/she thinks... Too many people are so gun shy to tell it like it is.. Because everyone has became so sue happy... And too worried about what someone else might say... Were all adults in here so why treat everything with kid gloves why not just tell like it is... Bad drivers And or Bad owners... Really if you think about it if you let the cat out of the bag.. You could be helping another driver or owner by saying this guy just sucks and this is why... There is a post in here now with over 900 replies and over 24,000 views... I'm sure if someone wanted to take the time they could figure out.. Who was telling the white lie to look good just my thought

There's just no need to "say it out loud". Most of the time, when someone posts a bad experience, they'll say that anyone that wants to know who the bad owner is can PM for the info. Why is anything more than that needed?

xiggi · Dec 5, 2010

greg334 said:
You know for years this subject has been going on and on, so here is my solution;

NO MORE FLEET OWNERS and NO MORE DRIVERS.

You want to get into this business, get a job, save your money and buy a truck.

Problem solved!

Then you would just have companies doing leases or lease/purchase to fill their rosters and people would be complaining about that. Just trade one gripe for another and nothing solved.

greg334 · Dec 5, 2010

xiggi said:
Then you would just have companies doing leases or lease/purchase to fill their rosters and people would be complaining about that. Just trade one gripe for another and nothing solved.

That's the problem in itself with most in this profession - they have to complain about something.

TS462 · Dec 5, 2010

Why wouldn't want to call a spade a spade.... And if it would get rid of some these dead beat owners and drivers... Then in the long all your doing is making things better for everyone..

xiggi · Dec 5, 2010

TS462 said:
Why wouldn't want to call a spade a spade.... And if it would get rid of some these dead beat owners and drivers... Then in the long all your doing is making things better for everyone..

Because half the people calling someone a spade are the actual spade. That only does damage to undeserving parties.

chefdennis · Dec 5, 2010

Greg wrote:

You know for years this subject has been going on and on, so here is my solution;

NO MORE FLEET OWNERS and NO MORE DRIVERS.

You want to get into this business, get a job, save your money and buy a truck.

Problem solved!

BINGO!!! As it should be!!!