My turn to ask a question...

[LastChance2]

Since I seem to have been doing a lot of defending of myself right off the bat, let me take a different tactic and learn something new while it's on my mind.

Normally when a question like this arises in my mind, I would just ask my boyfriend/co-owner but he's sleeping off his busy last four days.

Anyway, first, what, if any, is the difference between a broker and a carrier? I was kind of interchanging the terms, but are they interchangeable? I mean, I guess the drivers are carriers, but are the ones we run for (which are brokers with their MC#s) also carriers? Kind of a dumb question I guess, but even as someone new to it, I want to sound at least somewhat knowledgeable when I speak. I know all our brokers also have their own fleets, so does that make them brokers and carriers.... sheesh I honestly feel really dumb, because I have a feeling this is one of the reasons my mom always told me to quit dying my hair blonde because it would eventually stick. ;p

Second, I'm curious about something. Even though our brokers are brokering our loads, when my drivers give me the BOL copies at the end of their runs for filing, I see that in most instances we are running for someone else. What I mean is that say XYZ calls us with a load, it may very well say that we're actually running for Bolt, or Load 1, or FECC, or any of the other numerous companies out there. How does that work? Is it overflow? And it's gotten to where a good 75% of the time these companies are even calling one of our brokers and asking for my boyfriend by name to do the load or run (and of course they are always ones that we for sure get and pay a good rate). But I guess I don't understand the chain of command and how that works. That's why I'm assuming it's a kind of overflow of work or something like that. Lots of Landstar loads come our way through our brokers. Or maybe it just goes back to the first question of the true difference between a carrier and a broker.

So see, I can shut up and get off my own soapbox long enough to want to learn something that I don't know enough about. I get mad at myself and am sometimes even a bit embarrassed to ask John what may seem to be simple questions that I should by now know the answers to. So a lot of times I just kind of go with the flow, knowing I will eventually pick all this up as I go, and winging it until I do. Thanks in advance for the responses.

 

[paullud]

A broker gets the load from the shipper then finds someone or a company to run it for them. Sometimes they will also get a load from another broker even though they are not supposed to.

A carrier has vehicles signed on that run loads that they get from a broker or a direct customer but, a carrier can also have a brokerage where they take a load they cannot cover and find someone else to run it. Sometimes some of the bigger companies team up with partner carriers where they can get and give loads between each other. This is just a basic explanation.

Sent from my ADR6400L using EO Forums mobile app

 

[xiggi]

And it's gotten to where a good 75% of the time these companies are even calling one of our brokers and asking for my boyfriend by name to do the load or run

That is a nice thought but you would be amazed what they will say to get you to cover a load. You seem like a really nice person but so much to learn.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123

 

[Rocketman]

Paul did pretty good with the broker/carrier. They are both federal authorities. I guess my short answer would be that carrier authority allows you to transport freight across state lines and nation wide. The broker authority basicly give you the authority to sell (or broker) freight. Most carriers will have both. A broker only cannot have anything to do with actually moving the freight, he can only broker the load to someone who has the "carrier" authority to move it.

Here is what the FMCSA says here: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

6. What are the definitions of common, contract, and broker authorities?

Common carriers provide for-hire truck transportation to the general public. Common carriers must file liability (BI&PD) insurance but are not required to file cargo insurance.

Contract carriers provide for-hire truck transportation to specific, individual shippers based on contracts. Contract carriers must file liability (BI&PD) insurance but are not required to file cargo insurance.

Both common and contract motor carriers of household goods are required to file liability (BI&PD) insurance and cargo insurance.

Brokers arrange for the transportation of property by authorized motor carriers. Brokers are required to file either a surety bond or trust fund agreement.

Note: I don't think many use the contract carrier authority anymore(?). Most, I think, I use the Common carrier authority.

 

[Rocketman]

Since I seem to have been doing a lot of defending of myself right off the bat, let me take a different tactic and learn something new while it's on my mind.

This post/thread is the one you should have started your EO experience with. I think things would have went much smoother for you...just sayin

Second, I'm curious about something. Even though our brokers are brokering our loads, when my drivers give me the BOL copies at the end of their runs for filing, I see that in most instances we are running for someone else. What I mean is that say XYZ calls us with a load, it may very well say that we're actually running for Bolt, or Load 1, or FECC, or any of the other numerous companies out there. How does that work? Is it overflow? And it's gotten to where a good 75% of the time these companies are even calling one of our brokers and asking for my boyfriend by name to do the load or run (and of course they are always ones that we for sure get and pay a good rate). But I guess I don't understand the chain of command and how that works. That's why I'm assuming it's a kind of overflow of work or something like that. Lots of Landstar loads come our way through our brokers. Or maybe it just goes back to the first question of the true difference between a carrier and a broker.

Here is the deal (and where you truly can learn something), you ARE running overflow loads. And the second part is, that is not news to us. That is one reason that we have a pretty good hunch as to whether or not multi carriers can/do pay as well as single carriers. Most multi carriers rely solely on load board freight which is overflow freight from the big carriers. The deal is though, every time that BOL passes through a different company's hands, guess what happens to the money? It gets cut by "some" percentage. So, if the company I'm leased to has an overflow load and they call XYZ to cover it, my company is very likely to take a cut off the top (in all honesty, they are likely to get it covered for what I would have been paid to run it if I had been available). Well then, at minimum, if XYZ is one of your carriers, they are going to take their cut and give you what's left...or more likely... offer you as little as they can and get you take it, then take what's left. It's pure business 101. Now, the bad part is...and you have already mentioned this...XYZ might not be the last company that touches the BOL. They may broker it to yet another company before it gets on your truck through the other company. It can go on and on ad nauseum until finally, that load that the actual shipper might be paying $2+ per mile to get covered, goes on your truck for 93 cents/mile...and you think you've hit the jackpot! I'm sorry, but it's the freight business and one thing you'll learn in the freight business is that the closer you are to the source (the original shipper) the better rates you'll get for your trucks. That, in a nutshell, is why when someone comes on EO talking about how great multi carrier operations are...we know that they don't fully understand the big picture.

 

[Turtle]

Just to add to the already great responses, when you say "broker", what that means to most people is someone who does nothing but obtain loads from shippers and then find a carrier to haul the freight. They have no trucks of their own, and they have no authority to haul freight. All they do is broker the loads.

A carrier, or also known as a Motor Carrier, is Bolt, Landstar, Panther, Load 1, FECC, etc, a company with a fleet of trucks. Many carriers also have broker authority and will broker loads, but almost always loads they cannot cover themselves with their own trucks, or as Rocketman noted, the overflows (leftovers is more accurate, IMHO, because it's either loads they can't cover because they don't have any available trucks, or loads that they don't want to haul because they aren't profitable enough to haul, so they broker them out to someone who will take it on the cheap - A.K.A. you).

Having a co that has 20 years of general trucking udner his belt, it's completely understandable why you'd refer to anyone who gets you a load as a "broker". It's a perfectly valid and accurate term within the realm of general trucking. But it's the wrong term to use in expediting when referring to a carrier, despite the term being technically accurate.

And to follow up on Xiggi's comment, yes, brokers and dispatchers will tell you anything to get you to take a load. Asking for a specific driver by name may occur once in a while in general trucking, dedicated runs especially or routine pickups for relatively local runs, but the nature of expediting, that being emergency freight, makes it impossible to ask for a specific driver in all but the most unusual circumstances (FECC White Glove or Panther Elite or Load 1 Specialized Services for highly specialized loads would be the exception). The chances of a specific driver, especially in a cargo van, being in the immediate area and ready for an emergency pickup is so remote than no broker or carrier will even take the time to consider asking for a specific driver. Their only concern is getting that load covered, and as cheaply as possible.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

That is a nice thought but you would be amazed what they will say to get you to cover a load. You seem like a really nice person but so much to learn.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123

Happened to me a lot when with my first carrier....like 6-8 vans....and had some of their own regular customers....1 shipper had my home phone number to call when load was ready...it can happen in a smaller world.....there is more then just the BIG carrier world out there....

but that said it rarely does happen.....

 

[OntarioVanMan]

and .93 -.95 is no home run.....tho unfortunately its the close to the industry average ....most of the bigger carriers are between .95 - $1.00 range....so you are not running cheap... .85 is cheap....well let me say it is not a rate I would not want to run at consistently...i would take it to get out of a jam...

 

[LastChance2]

That is a nice thought but you would be amazed what they will say to get you to cover a load. You seem like a really nice person but so much to learn.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123

I'm not naive by any means. I wouldn't say it unless I knew it to be true. Most of the times, they also call him, especially once the load has been picked up and it's time to get it to it's place of delivery, and they've always backed it up that they specifically asked for him. Yes, I have a lot to learn, but that's why I ask questions. When I make a statement, it's something I already know.

 

[LastChance2]

You know, you all turn even a simple question that is asked into a free for all. I'm glad I have a lot stronger personality than most people in this world, because some of you are the most negative people I have ever met, and I thought my own family had that prize.

You take even a simple learning opportunity someone is making an effort to create and turn it into something much more.

Any one of you could have simply answered the question without any ragtag comments about my business (which no matter what I've shared, you still don't really know anything about, just as I know nothing about yours) or my supposed naivety. You all are so barking up the wrong tree when you assume anything about me at all.

Thanks for the comments and responses, but I do think I'll go back to lurking.

That's where I was naive, thinking I might get on here and share and would get any better treatment than anyone else. If someone isn't Load One, Bolt, or Panther, etc., then they couldn't possibly be doing worth a spit in this business, right?

 

[xiggi]

Hang on now many people have said your not doing bad. People are simply trying to pry your eyes wide open to the reality out here. No one that I have noticed has done anything but respond to statements you have made and believe to be true. Facts are many here have been around the block and learned not just from success but maybe even more from failure. It is constructive critisism offered and nothing else. Honestly its not personal, I've seen these guys write a ton of responses and have to say I think your well liked.

Keep in mind postings here are not only for your knowledge but will be read by people wanting to learn for a long time to come. It helps all of us present and future.

Don't leave just get a thicker skin you have made some valuable posts.

Sent from my Fisher Price - ABC 123

 

[davekc]

I think you are taking constructive criticism and assuming it is a personal assault. Not really the case. All of this started with you promoting a multi-carrier business plan. That is fine as you are finding it to YOUR liking. The problem came in when you portrayed your business as more profitable than a single carrier operator. Could be the case in some instances, but certainly not the majority as you found out. I do both so I can look at it objectively minus the van component.
The good news is you are learning that there are other avenues to a higher rate that so far you haven't been exposed to. Stick around. The more you educate yourself to the expediting industry, the better you will become based on your current posts.
Over time you will realize it isn't necessarily what you are making, it is what you are keeping over a protracted period of time.

 

[Moot]

I wouldn't say it unless I knew it to be true. Most of the times, they also call him, especially once the load has been picked up and it's time to get it to it's place of delivery, and they've always backed it up that they specifically asked for him.

Jeez, even Panther calls me by name. Well sometimes they still do the honey, sweety thing.

 

[Moot]

The good news is you are learning that there are other avenues to a higher rate that so far you haven't been exposed to.

And, if you can't get the higher rate, you have to run more efficiently.

 

[scottm4211]

Well sometimes they still do the honey, sweety thing.

Why wouldn't they? You're adorable!

 

[aquitted]

Jeez, even Panther calls me by name. Well sometimes they still do the honey, sweety thing.

Is that before or after they throw you A bone?

 

[Turtle]

You take even a simple learning opportunity someone is making an effort to create and turn it into something much more.

Simple answers to complex questions and to questions that come from a perspective of a certain naivety will usually result in misunderstanding and incomplete information, which generally do more harm than good to the recipient. You say you aren't naive by any means, yet your statements and questions scream naivety. That's a bad thing at all, by the way, unless you are convinced you aren't naive. Naive is literally having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information; credulous, and you've demonstrated all of them. We can see and recognize that fact, because every one of us were also at one time just as naive, and quite credulous about it. The fact is, nearly every response to you in all of your threads, including and perhaps especially the responses you don't like, contain a wealth of information that you would do well to absorb. Like Dave said, hang around. You might learn something.

 

[OntarioVanMan]

You know, you all turn even a simple question that is asked into a free for all. I'm glad I have a lot stronger personality than most people in this world, because some of you are the most negative people I have ever met, and I thought my own family had that prize.

Think that's bad....Just leave some water on the floor and towel on a dryer.....this gang will jump all over ya like it's the end of the world....I am going to join you in lurking mode...

Learn something?....don't count on it....

 

[EnglishLady]

Think that's bad....Just leave some water on the floor and towel on a dryer.....this gang will jump all over ya like it's the end of the world....I am going to join you in lurking mode...

Learn something?....don't count on it....

Methinks he doth protest too much ......

 

[stupiddog0-3]

You know, you all turn even a simple question that is asked into a free for all. I'm glad I have a lot stronger personality than most people in this world, because some of you are the most negative people I have ever met, and I thought my own family had that prize.

You take even a simple learning opportunity someone is making an effort to create and turn it into something much more.

Any one of you could have simply answered the question without any ragtag comments about my business (which no matter what I've shared, you still don't really know anything about, just as I know nothing about yours) or my supposed naivety. You all are so barking up the wrong tree when you assume anything about me at all.

Thanks for the comments and responses, but I do think I'll go back to lurking.

That's where I was naive, thinking I might get on here and share and would get any better treatment than anyone else. If someone isn't Load One, Bolt, or Panther, etc., then they couldn't possibly be doing worth a spit in this business, right?

You are correct with this one! Most of these people are very in your face with there answers because there stuff don't stink! Ontario van man is a good one, he gives good advice without the your stupid and a slap at the end. There is a couple more also that are ok also. That being said, if you look back at every post on here there are a couple who have something to say about everything and you can bet they have a pic of themselves for there profile pic. There the ones you stay away from at school because they are know it all wieners. A good answer is one with info in it but without the you suck and are to stupid to do it correctly. ... Loooook at me. The problem it there are people like this everywhere and will be forever. We will just have to take the good info and look over these people. Good luck.