My Rant

[RLENT]

3 Mexicans waiting in line, spoke in mexican when placing their order, was serviced by Mexicans speaking mexican back to them during their transaction. 3 Mexican guys at table near counter carrying on a conversation in mexican.

Were they now ?

Good thing there weren't any Brazilians in there ...... speaking Brazilian ... Argentines ..... speaking Argentinian .... Guatemalans ...... speaking Guatemalan ..... Nicaraguans .... speaking Nicaraguan .... Venezuelans ...... speaking Venezuelan ..... or Panamanians ...... speaking Panamanian ....

One can only imagine the sheer chaos and disorder that would have resulted ....

People sitting at tables eating their breakfast all of mexican origins.

How, pray tell, did Your Royal Astuteness divine this "fact" ?

Oh yeah, that's right .... thay wuz all speakin' mexican .....

 

[cheri1122]

Were they now ?

Good thing there weren't any Brazilians in there ...... speaking Brazilian ... Argentines ..... speaking Argentinian .... Guatemalans ...... speaking Guatemalan ..... Nicaraguans .... speaking Nicaraguan .... Venezuelans ...... speaking Venezuelan ..... or Panamanians ...... speaking Panamanian ....

How can one tell they weren't? They might have been speaking all of them, lol.

One can only imagine the sheer chaos and disorder that would have resulted ....




How, pray tell, did Your Royal Astuteness divine this "fact" ?

Oh yeah, that's right .... thay wuz all speakin' mexican .....

My objection to the appeasement of Spanish speaking people in the US is that the same treatment was/is not afforded to any other group of immigrants [nor should it be], but why shouldn't they now demand the same consideration for their native language? It's the ol slippery slope - once one group is accommodated, others will surely follow.
My personal feeling is that if you wish to live in another country, you either learn the language, or you get along as best you can without it - but if you expect to work, and the job has any involvement with the public, learning English should be mandatory. For drivers, what happens when they're involved in an accident? Or when a witness speaks no English? Should taxpayers pay for translators [as they did when I worked as a nurse, and patients couldn't communicate with us] ?

I don't expect Mexicans or Canadians to speak English when I am in their country, either.

 

[Turtle]

It's not really a case of appeasement as much as it is the reality. The reason so many products have dual language printing is simply because of the sheer numbers of Spanish speaking (and Mexican speaking) people in this country. If Italians were here in the same numbers instead of Mexicans, we'd see it in Italian, instead. The Spanish speaking populations is widespread all around this country, so you see dual packaging that's widespread. There are regional pockets where languages other than English and Spanish dominate, and you see written (and spoken) languages which reflect that. You don't see a lot of English-Spanish dual packaging in Chinatown (NY or San Fran), or Koreatown. There are places in New Mexico and Arizona where you'll see dual English-Navajo packaging, and sometimes Navajo-only packaging.


"Stopped by MCDONALDS in RICHLAND HILLS, TEXAS this morning to grab my Saturday morning Sausage Biscuit & Large Coke and it felt like I was in Mexico."

Ah, a flashback to the 1800s, when it still was Mexico.

I wonder how the Tejanos in Tejas feel about all those obnoxious white invaders who are trying to make the natives unlearn their own language.

 

[greg334]

Cheri, I known a lot of poles who didn't learn a lot of English and they got along well enough for many years. I do expect a Canadian to speak to me in English, even if I'm in any French speaking part of the country simply due to their duality of language on the national level. Even in Louisiana, where I have run across French speaking people who refused to practice their English skills, I expect them to speak to me in English and most oblige when I refuse to break into my hacked French.

Our country isn't one of monolithic language structure and history has given us a rich culture that is driven by language, even today the allowances we make don't hold us back, it is our own arrogance that does that for us.

I've come to the conclusion that the government may need to have one single language to conduct business in but it is not a thing we need to have one national language to speak or live. They seem to do things backwards and if we demand a single national language, we may get Spanish as we got the Star Spangled Banner for our National anthem.

 

[jaminjim]

I wonder how the Tejanos in Tejas feel about all those obnoxious white invaders who are trying to make the natives unlearn their own language.

So you're saying that we give Texas back to the Indians, right.

 

[Turtle]

So you're saying that we give Texas back to the Indians, right.

I don't recall saying anything even remotely like that, no.

 

[jaminjim]

I don't recall saying anything even remotely like that, no.

My mistake.

When I read the part:

I wonder how the Tejanos in Tejas feel about all those obnoxious white invaders who are trying to make the natives unlearn their own language.

I thought you were saying that the white people of Texas were wrong. I concluded that you would advocate us (white folks) righting a wrong.

 

[UncleTed]

In Santa Ana's day Spain was attempting to populate Texas. They offered settlers in the northern territories ( the U.S.) to move to texas in return for ranchland and some cash. they would become mexican citizens and build the community. I suppose they were required to learn to speak "mexican" also. Funny what you can learn if you open a book once in a while.

 

[Turtle]

My mistake.

When I read the part:
I wonder how the Tejanos in Tejas feel about all those obnoxious white invaders who are trying to make the natives unlearn their own language.

I thought you were saying that the white people of Texas were wrong. I concluded that you would advocate us (white folks) righting a wrong.

Well, I am more or less saying that the white people of Texas are wrong, and am advocating righting that wrong, but I never mentioned giving Texas back to the natives. This discussion is about languages and the mandating the use thereof, not redrawing political borders.

For a really long time before we got here the people of Mexico moved with unrestricted impunity into and out of what we now call Texas (kind of like the people of Ohio and Michigan move back and forth between those two states currently). They spoke their native languages while doing it, too. Then, suddenly, Texas was awash in foreigners, immigrants and settlers who spoke a different language, few of which felt compelled to learn the local language, especially as their numbers swelled. The natives kept their own language, as well.

Then, suddenly, Texas was its own country, but the languages remained, as it's hard to snap a finger and make people learn a new culture and a new language.

Then, just as suddenly, Texas was annexed as part of the United States, was promoted to a State. The people were the same, tho.

Now, the good white folks of Texas, immigrants and descendants of immigrants one and all (or, depending on your perspective - invaders), want to require the natives to cast away their historical culture and languages in favor of one imposed upon them by the white folks. The white folks literally want to deprive the natives of being who they are, of the liberty to be themselves.

The natives, human nature being what it is, are resiting having others tell them what to do and how to live, and are naturally resisting having to learn a new language "just because I said so". Put the shoe on the other foot, and the white folks would resist (and are resisting) learning a new language while still living in their native land, too. It's a battle wills and a battle of liberty. And the white folks are, mostly, wrong.

Texas should not and will not be "given back" to Mexico. It is what it is. But you've still got to allow people the liberty to be themselves. If you think it' OK to tell people they must use a different language, then go down south and tell people they aren't allowed to say "fixin' to" (or in Mississippi, "fidn' da"), or go to an Amish community and tell them they can't speak German, or go to most anywhere in Ohio and tell them they can't use "worsch" when describing the cleaning of dishes, vehicles or laundry.

 

[layoutshooter]

The Mexican government "invited" Americans to move to Texas. They provided "land agents 67,000 acres for every 200 Americans families that moved there. They were REQUIRED to not only learn to speak Spanish (Mexican) but also had to convert to Roman Catholic. The movement of Americans under those conditions started around 1820. Santa Anna did not pull his stunts until 1830. He over threw the Mexican Constitution in 1834 (Obama's hero) and made himself dictator of Mexico in 1834. THOSE actions were the primary cause of the Texas revolution.

 

[jimby82]

Then, suddenly, Texas was its own country, but the languages remained, as it's hard to snap a finger and make people learn a new culture and a new language.

But isn't that exactly what happened with the Spanish?

 

[layoutshooter]

Several Tejano's fought WITH the Texans AGAINST the evil Santa Anna. 8 died fighting in the Alamo WITH the Texans.

 

[Turtle]

But isn't that exactly what happened with the Spanish?

Yeah, except the Spanish did it by removing any notion of liberty of self, and did it at the point of a gun - learn Spanish or die. Spanish conquest in the New World was driven by the three Gs: Gold, Glory, and God. In their drive to gather riches and convert the locals to Catholicism, Columbus and later conquistadors enslaved and decimated the local populations. The Incas, Aztecs and Mayans resisted. Don't hear much from them, anymore.

Ironically, especially for those who think Mexicans should be forced to learn English, Spanish has a much longer and far more widespread history within the United States than does English. Spoken by one-third of the world's population, Spanish is the second most natively spoken language in the world, after Mandarin Chinese. It is one of the 6 official languages of the UN and is an official language of the EU.

Of all countries in the world with a majority of Spanish speakers, only Spain and Equatorial Guinea are outside the Americas.

Mexico has the world's largest Spanish-speaking population.

The United States has the world's second-largest Spanish speaking population.

The dominant spoken language in Puerto Rico, a US Territory, is Spanish.

By a large margin, the most widely spoken and dominant language in the Western Hemisphere is Spanish, even more so if you include the Portuguese of Brazil.

Mexican is not a language.

The Western Hemisphere, contrary to the belief of many Americans, is not larger than the Eastern Hemisphere.

 

[layoutshooter]

The problem we had THAT day was NOT caused by someone who spoke Spanish. The person that led to the "rant" was oriental. I don't know from where.

I don't speak Spanish, I also don't speak "English". I speak a language I call, 'Merican. Otherwise known as Standard AMERICAN English. (within certain variables and liberties) We have "changed" English enough that it is no longer "Classic English". It would not surprise be if the language spoken in Mexico is more theirs than "classic Spanish"

I uses to work with a man from Holland. (the country, NOT the city in Michigan) He moved to Michigan in the late 50's. He told me that they were taught "American" in their schools, NOT English.

 

[cheri1122]

I don't see where the numbers of Spanish speaking people have anything to do with it - they chose to come here, where English is spoken, and they have no right to expect us to accommodate their language because they chose to live here. Legally or not, it was their choice, and it's their responsibility to assimilate, not ours to accommodate.

PS I lived in the south for many years, and know how different many dialects sound - but it's still English. Technically, anyway.

 

[layoutshooter]

I don't see where the numbers of Spanish speaking people have anything to do with it - they chose to come here, where English is spoken, and they have no right to expect us to accommodate their language because they chose to live here. Legally or not, it was their choice, and it's their responsibility to assimilate, not ours to accommodate.

PS I lived in the south for many years, and know how different many dialects sound - but it's still English. Technically, anyway.

Don't tell EnglishLady that!! LOL!! Shoot, they don't even speak "English" in North Yorkshire, England, let alone here. We have many of the same words, different spelling and often different meanings or uses for similar words.

 

[Turtle]

I don't see where the numbers of Spanish speaking people have anything to do with it

If that's true, then the number of English-speaking people here should have nothing to do with it, either. But I bring up the point because many speakers of English, especially Americans, are quite arrogant about it and think that it's up to others to learn English, and think the notion that English speakers should be bothered to learn another language is just absurd. English is the second-most widely spoken language after Mandarin, but is second only because English is a second language for a great many people. English ranks sixth in number of native speakers.

- they chose to come here, where English is spoken,

(A) as a people they were already here, (B) where Spanish was and is still widely spoken,

and they have no right to expect us to accommodate their language because they chose to live here.

Said the white invaders to the Cherokee, Apache, Navajo, et al.

Legally or not, it was their choice, and it's their responsibility to assimilate, not ours to accommodate.

We as Americans and self-professed "good guys", and as a nation, accommodate a great number of languages.

I've been to Quebec many times, and some people up there can be very snotty to those who do not speak French. I didn't like being on the receiving end of that, and vowed never to do the same to someone else simply because they spoke a different language than I do. I also know how hard it is to learn another language. For some people it's nearly impossible. As a result, I tend to give others a little slack.

 

[layoutshooter]

How do you intend to maintain a SAFE work place with multiple languages? Do we have to maintain a "corps" of multiple interrators in the work place? How do you intend to maintain cost effeciency with multiple languages? What about any attempt at unity? We all know how well multiple languages have unified Europe. As I said, the "official" language is for business, private and governmental business. AFTER work you can speak what you wish.

 

[Turtle]

I've been into several businesses where multiple languages were spoken. Whataburger in Anywhere, TX is a good example. I heard both Spanish and English being spoken. It seemed safe enough. I've been in many a Chinese restaurant where both Chinese and English were spoken. No one got hurt.

Are you actually proposing that English be the "official" and thus the only spoken language in the kitchen of a Chinese restaurant? For safety?!?! What about your typical Coney Island restaurant in Detroit, where most are Greek?

Or, do we do something as radical as allowing people to be themselves and live their lives as they see fit, which would include learning a new language, or not, depending on their circumstances?

 

[UncleTed]

Yeah, except the Spanish did it by removing any notion of liberty of self, and did it at the point of a gun - learn Spanish or die. Spanish conquest in the New World was driven by the three Gs: Gold, Glory, and God. In their drive to gather riches and convert the locals to Catholicism, Columbus and later conquistadors enslaved and decimated the local populations. The Incas, Aztecs and Mayans resisted. Don't hear much from them, anymore.

Ironically, especially for those who think Mexicans should be forced to learn English, Spanish has a much longer and far more widespread history within the United States than does English. Spoken by one-third of the world's population, Spanish is the second most natively spoken language in the world, after Mandarin Chinese. It is one of the 6 official languages of the UN and is an official language of the EU.

Of all countries in the world with a majority of Spanish speakers, only Spain and Equatorial Guinea are outside the Americas.

Mexico has the world's largest Spanish-speaking population.

The United States has the world's second-largest Spanish speaking population.

The dominant spoken language in Puerto Rico, a US Territory, is Spanish.

By a large margin, the most widely spoken and dominant language in the Western Hemisphere is Spanish, even more so if you include the Portuguese of Brazil.

Mexican is not a language.

The Western Hemisphere, contrary to the belief of many Americans, is not larger than the Eastern Hemisphere.

Excellent points. Just one more example of the pomposity of Americans. "Our way or the highway" Nevermind they were here first. This is the US of A. You better speak our language or else!
By the way they speak Spanish in Puerto Rico too, a territory of the U.S.