pandora2112
Seasoned Expediter
Since I haven't being driving very long Spongebox does the same often. Nyc, Chicago or Atlanta or typically his domain.
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Miles
- Thread starter spongebox1
- Start date
Since I haven't being driving very long Spongebox does the same often. Nyc, Chicago or Atlanta or typically his domain.
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pandora2112
Seasoned Expediter
I'm still trying to wrap my head around someone who writes a blog and news article on expediting, who calculates everything doesn't pay attention to this number. Yes it varies depending on certain conditions such as weather, traffic or construction just to name a few. This business is ALL about numbers...how does not paying attention to this number not create ticked off customers and brokers if you're taking loads outside your capabilities?
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spongebox1
Expert Expediter
paullud
Veteran Expediter
It may depend on how the team operates. When I was running team we knew the other would just drive the whole shift and the miles weren't an issue so the miles each one would drive wasn't a concern. Some people hit a mental hurdle at a certain amount of miles and get tired so they need to factor that into their planning.
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If we make it all about numbers, then how do we slot in the variables that make one day's numbers great, and the next day pitiful? Variables like weight, geography, weather, construction/detours, rush hour, and plain old differences in what we can do [everyone has a bad day now & then].
Keeping track that closely feels like keeping score, like it's a competition. That could be helpful, if the spirit of competitive driving inspires you, but it could be destructive, too, I think.
I think there are enough 'metrics' measuring our performance already, but if you want more, have at it.
I just spewed Pepsi all over my tablet.
We'd handle such a run as any other. Because I can sleep easier in the early evening than Diane can, we always change shifts around 4:00 p.m. If the pick up is at 3:00 p.m., I'll load and drive until 4:00. If it is at 7:00 a.m., I do the same thing. Diane will then drive from 4:00 p.m. to 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. Then it is my turn for 10 or 11 hours behind the wheel, if the load requires it.
We're a team and can keep the truck moving as long as we have log book hours to spare. It does not matter what time the pick up or delivery is, or how long the run is, or how many miles one team member or the other drives. When completing runs, we go by the clock, not the odometer. As long as you keep the truck moving, the miles take care of themselves.
The number of miles are important because that number is used to calculate the pay per mile and decide whether to take the load or not. But as far as the actual driving goes, it matters not how many miles each team member drives. It matters only that we keep the truck moving while taking turns to get the sleep we need.
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We don't take loads outside our capabilities, but we'll take any load that pays well enough and can be completed in whatever log book hours we have available (team hours combined).
I still don't understand how "average miles per team member" is a meaningful number. Can you explain more about how you or others use it? Yes, it is an easy number to track and calculate, but why would you want to? What does that number tell you, and why is it important to know?
Just for fun, I calculated our "average miles per shift" (term from original post) for our most recent five days in the truck.
Since Diane and I alternate shifts, it is the same thing to calculate average miles per team member, is it not? That's what is shown below.
Note that in this truck, the only constant is that we change drivers around 4:00 p.m. every day (give or take an hour here and there). Diane drives or goes on duty at that time if there is work to do. Our respective log books and the HOS regs determine everything else that happens with our time and driving. In general, we alternate 10 to 11 hour shifts, with 4:00 p.m. being the desired time at which Diane begins her next shift.
Also important is the fact that we manage our sleep well. Whether we are under load or not, or on duty or not, sleep management is our number one priority. It is common for us to go out of service to sleep if we feel too tired to drive. We do not accept loads if we have not had enough sleep to run 10 - 11 hours shifts back to back.
Here are the numbers:
In the last five days, the miles driven were:
Phil
Day 1: 0
Day 2: 73
Day 3: 218
Day 4: 74
Day 5: 262
Total miles: 607
Average miles per day (shift): 121
Diane
Day 1: 283
Day 2: 380
Day 3: 113
Day 4: 335
Day 5: 151
Total miles: 1,262
Average miles per day (shift): 252
You will see that Diane's "average miles per shift" was more than double mine. Those are the numbers, pandora2112. What do they tell you that is meaningful in this business? Since the miles driven differ dramatically between team members in this truck, can you help me understand how that is good or bad? In what way is this dramatic difference in "average miles per shift" important? In what way would we be better off if our averages were close to equal?
I could go back and find a week where we ran back-to-back cross-country loads that needed to have a driver in attendance of the truck at all times the freight was on board. In such a week, we would come close to using up our 140 available hours (70 hours each) and our "average miles per shift" would be close to equal. In that case, the same questions would apply. Since the miles driven by each team member are approximately equal, can you help me understand how that is good or bad? In what way is this equality in "average miles per shift" important? In what way would we be better off if our averages were significantly unequal as in the case above?
Forgive me, pandora2112. I do not see how "average miles per shift" is a number or indicator that is useful in the expedite team-truck business, but I remain open to learning.
For those who may be wondering about the numbers we do pay attention to, this was a slow week for us, partly because we were delayed one full day waiting for a license to be issued to bring something into Canada. We did two runs this week, drove a total of 1,869 miles and earned $4,828 (gross to the truck), which translates into revenue per mile of $2.58 for all miles driven (odometer start to odometer end for these five days). $2.58 for all miles driven is above average for us. While the week was slow, and total revenue was less than we would like it to be, it was nevertheless a profitable week because that Canada load paid especially well.
Since Diane and I alternate shifts, it is the same thing to calculate average miles per team member, is it not? That's what is shown below.
Note that in this truck, the only constant is that we change drivers around 4:00 p.m. every day (give or take an hour here and there). Diane drives or goes on duty at that time if there is work to do. Our respective log books and the HOS regs determine everything else that happens with our time and driving. In general, we alternate 10 to 11 hour shifts, with 4:00 p.m. being the desired time at which Diane begins her next shift.
Also important is the fact that we manage our sleep well. Whether we are under load or not, or on duty or not, sleep management is our number one priority. It is common for us to go out of service to sleep if we feel too tired to drive. We do not accept loads if we have not had enough sleep to run 10 - 11 hours shifts back to back.
Here are the numbers:
In the last five days, the miles driven were:
Phil
Day 1: 0
Day 2: 73
Day 3: 218
Day 4: 74
Day 5: 262
Total miles: 607
Average miles per day (shift): 121
Diane
Day 1: 283
Day 2: 380
Day 3: 113
Day 4: 335
Day 5: 151
Total miles: 1,262
Average miles per day (shift): 252
You will see that Diane's "average miles per shift" was more than double mine. Those are the numbers, pandora2112. What do they tell you that is meaningful in this business? Since the miles driven differ dramatically between team members in this truck, can you help me understand how that is good or bad? In what way is this dramatic difference in "average miles per shift" important? In what way would we be better off if our averages were close to equal?
I could go back and find a week where we ran back-to-back cross-country loads that needed to have a driver in attendance of the truck at all times the freight was on board. In such a week, we would come close to using up our 140 available hours (70 hours each) and our "average miles per shift" would be close to equal. In that case, the same questions would apply. Since the miles driven by each team member are approximately equal, can you help me understand how that is good or bad? In what way is this equality in "average miles per shift" important? In what way would we be better off if our averages were significantly unequal as in the case above?
Forgive me, pandora2112. I do not see how "average miles per shift" is a number or indicator that is useful in the expedite team-truck business, but I remain open to learning.
For those who may be wondering about the numbers we do pay attention to, this was a slow week for us, partly because we were delayed one full day waiting for a license to be issued to bring something into Canada. We did two runs this week, drove a total of 1,869 miles and earned $4,828 (gross to the truck), which translates into revenue per mile of $2.58 for all miles driven (odometer start to odometer end for these five days). $2.58 for all miles driven is above average for us. While the week was slow, and total revenue was less than we would like it to be, it was nevertheless a profitable week because that Canada load paid especially well.
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Shayne normally drives more miles than I do. I am normally awake more hours than she is. We switch drivers around 1 or 2 and I drive the 0200 to 1400 shift. We each take turns driving the short runs. We are both on the road for the same amount of time and the money goes in one bank account.
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Yes, of course. But how often are you allowed to walk unsupervised into Home Depot or up to the Snap-On Tools truck with the family credit card?
bubblehead
Veteran Expediter
....HERS
Yes, of course. But how often are you allowed to walk unsupervised into Home Depot or up to the Snap-On Tools truck with the family credit card?
Since we are building a house inside the barn I go to Home Depot quite often. HD and Lowes have 10% off for disabled vets. Once the house is done I am building a wood shop. Shayne actually likes tools. She has her own tools and tool room. Tools are one of our biggest assets. Having spent 27 years in construction our collection is quite extensive.
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....HERS
Caught using the family credit card.
Photo posted by Shayne
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pandora2112
Seasoned Expediter
Okay I just got done driving and haven't read all the comments but wanted to break my way of thinking down. I come from a financial background so I'm looking at not just my profit minus expenses but since time is money my hourly potential profit or lost.
It's easier to just show some examples, so I'll use three example runs using easy numbers to keep it simple.
Run 1: 1200 miles, after expenses it's 70 cents profit per mile for a grand total of 840.00
Run 2: 1200 miles with 50 cents profit for grand total of 720.00
Run 3: 1100 miles with 60 cents profit for grand total of 660.00
Now say all three loads are available, so most people instinctively say well duh run 1! But now let's break it down: Using a team running 1200 miles in a 24 hour period and taking various factors into account. And will 4 hours of time bc you need a shower, service or something also splitting wait time in half.
Run 1: 24 hours of average drive time, but with known traffic and weather conditions you estimate another 3 hours of driving. Plus you know you're going to spend 4 hours driving deadhead to a good freight area and due to previous experience can expect to wait as long as 20 hours for a load. You're now looking at 24+3+4+4+10 in hours, totalling 45 hours. If you divide 45 hours by total profit you are making approximately 18.66 an hour.
Run 2: 24 average drive hours but not a lot of traffic or weather issues so you only add an additional 1, you're in a good freight area so no deadhead and only typically wait no more than 4 hours for a load offer. So this run is 24+1+0+4+2= 31 so you're average is 23.87 hourly.
Run 3: Is only 22 hours average drive time plus an additional 2 hours for weather and traffic, let's say you only have to deadhead 3 hours and previous experience tells you, that it can be a 10 hour wait time for another run. So this run is 22+2+3+4+5 which is 38 hours total and an hourly average of 17.36.
Now which run is most profitable for you? Sometimes we see a big number and automatically think that it's better but that's not always the case if you look at all factors. I'm not saying just look at this breakdown but to look at your profit versus your time also.
Spongebox and I were talking after his conversation with this couple about different scenarios. For example Dynamite mentioned they most likely lose a few miles on their average drive time to let the dog potty, but for those of us with pets it's worth the loss of a few miles or run here or there. My cat brings in a happiness that I can't financially equate into profit or loss. But I'm trying to look at what I can quantify as profit or loss and maximize my hours/income and keep my expenses/losses down!
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It's easier to just show some examples, so I'll use three example runs using easy numbers to keep it simple.
Run 1: 1200 miles, after expenses it's 70 cents profit per mile for a grand total of 840.00
Run 2: 1200 miles with 50 cents profit for grand total of 720.00
Run 3: 1100 miles with 60 cents profit for grand total of 660.00
Now say all three loads are available, so most people instinctively say well duh run 1! But now let's break it down: Using a team running 1200 miles in a 24 hour period and taking various factors into account. And will 4 hours of time bc you need a shower, service or something also splitting wait time in half.
Run 1: 24 hours of average drive time, but with known traffic and weather conditions you estimate another 3 hours of driving. Plus you know you're going to spend 4 hours driving deadhead to a good freight area and due to previous experience can expect to wait as long as 20 hours for a load. You're now looking at 24+3+4+4+10 in hours, totalling 45 hours. If you divide 45 hours by total profit you are making approximately 18.66 an hour.
Run 2: 24 average drive hours but not a lot of traffic or weather issues so you only add an additional 1, you're in a good freight area so no deadhead and only typically wait no more than 4 hours for a load offer. So this run is 24+1+0+4+2= 31 so you're average is 23.87 hourly.
Run 3: Is only 22 hours average drive time plus an additional 2 hours for weather and traffic, let's say you only have to deadhead 3 hours and previous experience tells you, that it can be a 10 hour wait time for another run. So this run is 22+2+3+4+5 which is 38 hours total and an hourly average of 17.36.
Now which run is most profitable for you? Sometimes we see a big number and automatically think that it's better but that's not always the case if you look at all factors. I'm not saying just look at this breakdown but to look at your profit versus your time also.
Spongebox and I were talking after his conversation with this couple about different scenarios. For example Dynamite mentioned they most likely lose a few miles on their average drive time to let the dog potty, but for those of us with pets it's worth the loss of a few miles or run here or there. My cat brings in a happiness that I can't financially equate into profit or loss. But I'm trying to look at what I can quantify as profit or loss and maximize my hours/income and keep my expenses/losses down!
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With the information you provide, and with the benefit of hindsight, your question can be answered along the lines you laid out. But as expediters, how realistic is that scenario really?
Diane and I have been in the business over ten years and have never once had our choice of three loads at the same time. When you accept a load, you have no idea what else might have come your way had you declined. This is a one-load-at-a-time business, not a choice of three.
Another thought: Expediters do not get paid by the hour. They get paid by the run. Profitability in expediting is not a function of how much time you put into a load or series of loads. Profitibility is the difference between the money earned (revenue) and the money spent (expenses).
Look at any income statement. There is no entry for time. There are only enteries for items of income and expense. The difference between the two (revenue - expense) is your profit or loss for a given run or time period (day, week, month, quarter, year).
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Slacktide
Seasoned Expediter
This thread has truly been fascinating. It has had me shaking my head, LAUGHING, AND confused.
In the quote above, I finally had to sign in to get some clarification before I assume any further. Pandora2112, do you really stop during a 1200 mile run to shower or get service done? Not emergency service mind you. That would go without saying. I "assume" you're talking about oil change, truck lube, ETC.
While I have eliminated another part of the quote, I'm curious. Do you generally only average 50 MPH on any given run? 1200= 24 HRS.
pandora2112
Seasoned Expediter
I'm talking about after delivery taking time off and I'm allotting time off for 30 min break, restroom stops, fuel, etc. We actually quite often hit 650-700 in one shift...the original question was what do average on a shift, and we've found many teams saying they average less. We always lower our average to expect the unexpected. Everyone here always says work smarter not harder yet I'm laughed at for saying if I can make 23 bucks an hour in 31 hours or 17 bucks an hour in 45, I'll take 31 hours at 23? That leaves more time to play, more time to make more money and more money to play with! By only looking at the equation at the profit per load you may not realize your full earning potential.
In banking we used to ask people, What would you rather have one million dollars right now today or one penny in an account where the balance is doubled everyday? What would you choose? The big instant gratification or the slow steady reward?
If you wait for the reward you'd get over five million dollars! So the big instant pay out is not always working smarter!
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So, a hypothetical expedite team wakes up on Monday morning after laying over at a truck stop over the weekend and they are ready to go to work. They expect load offers to come in today because that is the normal flow for them. Sure enough, a load offer comes in.
Being smart business people, this team knows that it costs them $1.25 a mile to operate their truck. The offer is for a 400 mile run that pays $1.80 all miles, including deadhead. The load is profitable for them to run because revenue exceeds expenses by $0.65 per mile. The run would involve about 8 hours of work.
What else would you have that team look at beyond profit per run in that situation? Would you tell them to accept the load, or would you show them some other way to realize their "full earning potential?" And if you would do the latter, what exactly would you tell them?
P.S. You don't get to bring other load opportunities into the picture because there are none in this moment when the accept/decline decision must be made.
You know that other offers may come later in the day but you have no idea what kind of offers they may be. IF they come, they may be better or worse than the offer that is in front of you right now.
In this situtuation (very common in expediting), how does this team realize their "full earning potential?"
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