Marxism's March
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Are you saying "It's Bushs fault" then?
No, Barney Frank
bobwg
Expert Expediter
http://youtu.be/cMnSp4qEXNMcMnSp4qEXNM lets see if this link works barney frank saying nothing wrong with the housing market or fannie and freddie back during the Bush years
The Tea Party and the original OWS were both born out of frustration with the government. The difference is the Tea Party got people in to office through some organization to forward the "less government" policies and OWS resorted to violence, infringing on the rights of others
When corporate lobbyists write the laws, aren't they infringing on others' rights? I think so.
for expanded government in hopes the "rich must pay".
Did you read about Romney's use of the interesting tax dodge called 'carried interest' [his projected earnings from Bain, after he left] to fund his kids' trust funds? His 'carried interest' was officially valued at zero. I'm still trying to figure out how one funds a trust fund with something valued at zero, but like my ex always said, I just don't understand money real good.
Romney and the rest understand it real good, though, and they have abused the hell out of it. And us.
Since that one percent run the country, OWS had little chance of success with many of the goofy demands they were making.
As you mentioned, OWs is far less organized than the TP, which makes it that much easier to use some dipstick as a 'typical' example for the tv cameras. But you shouldn't underestimate the depth of their anger, nor the trouble they could cause if their 'petitioning for redress' is trivialized - Anonymous aint joining the TP any time soon, ya know?
With regards to the housing crisis, that problem developed long before 2008. That developed in the Clinton years when banks were being mandated to lower lending standards that the government backed up. Those loans were rolled essentially in to package deals and resold.
That is how you got people making 30k a year living in a 500k house.
Except for the last sentence, is what I said: the government could 'pressure' [and I know they did], but what made the banks behave unethically was the profit motive - they knew the loans would be sold before the defaults began, and they took the profit and ran.
Not agreeing that people bought $500k homes on a $30K income, though - at least not on any significant scale. The biggest defaults were just regular low to middle income houses, many bought by people with the financial sophistication of your average teenager, who had no idea what an adjustable rate mortgage could be adjusted to, in a couple years - and the banks sure didn't make them understand it, either. Others bought exactly the home they could afford, then lost their jobs [sometimes, both spouses!] or got sick, and the banks just slammed the door on any efforts they made to stay in their homes.
Sure, some people scammed the system, but the majority of foreclosures were people who got scammed by 'the system', while the banks [and private investment firms] made some pretty impressive [or obscene] profits.
"The biggest defaults were just regular low to middle income houses, many bought by people with the financial sophistication of your average teenager,"
You know what they say, stupid is as stupid does. Attorney's fees for home purchases are not that high. Stupid is no excuse. There are FAR too many FREE sources out there as well. It all boils down to a total lack of personal responsibility. NO one held a gun to their head and FORCED them to sign those papers.
The ones wo were hurt the most were those who did it right and lost their shirts due to government interference in the housing market.
You know what they say, stupid is as stupid does. Attorney's fees for home purchases are not that high. Stupid is no excuse. There are FAR too many FREE sources out there as well. It all boils down to a total lack of personal responsibility. NO one held a gun to their head and FORCED them to sign those papers.
The ones wo were hurt the most were those who did it right and lost their shirts due to government interference in the housing market.
bobwg
Expert Expediter
How hard is it to read the stupid loan papers and see the payment schedule they give u which shows how much each month you were to pay for your loan???? I would say there were more people that signed loans not caring that they could not pay the loan than you think and alot of the other were people who were trying to do what they call flip the house
Some people made money and some didn't. I do think personal responsibility comes in to play if someone purchased a home they couldn't afford. If they had that "teenager mentality", then they should have hired a lawyer to facilitate the sale. It really is that simple. Blaming banks or anything else really doesn't cut it.
Many lost their houses through no fault of their own through a poor economy. Just how it is. Life is like that. Some people win and some lose. What they do after the fact is the key to future success. It may take a lot sacrifice to moving for employment to a full rebuild.
If your greatest fear is how Romney invested in the past, you need to look at a much bigger picture. Currently through the support of the Obama administration, Ben Berneke has decided to start printing money. The "rich" will certainly benefit through the stock market for a limited time.
As you print money, (he says indefinitely) guess who is getting killed. The poor at the bottom of the scale. As the dollar drops in value, you pay more for food, gas, housing and everything else.
It would be a hard sell to convince anyone that the democrats are helping the poor when they are printing money.
Many lost their houses through no fault of their own through a poor economy. Just how it is. Life is like that. Some people win and some lose. What they do after the fact is the key to future success. It may take a lot sacrifice to moving for employment to a full rebuild.
If your greatest fear is how Romney invested in the past, you need to look at a much bigger picture. Currently through the support of the Obama administration, Ben Berneke has decided to start printing money. The "rich" will certainly benefit through the stock market for a limited time.
As you print money, (he says indefinitely) guess who is getting killed. The poor at the bottom of the scale. As the dollar drops in value, you pay more for food, gas, housing and everything else.
It would be a hard sell to convince anyone that the democrats are helping the poor when they are printing money.
On top of that there was NOTHING wrong with "Arms". I took one out when I bought this house. Got 3% for a year. All I did was watch it, when it started going up I got it fixed. Paid on it like it was 6% Knocked off a BUNCH of principle off that way.
bobwg
Expert Expediter
Barney Frank in 2005: What Housing Bubble? - YouTube 2005 Barney Frank saying What housing bubble? after others have expressed concern that the housing market is over priced and Fannie and Freddie need to be reformed
The whole issue of 'weak vs strong' dollar is just a bit over my head [and it drives me nuts trying to make sense of it, lol] but what scares me is Romney's complete cluelessness to how working people struggle to pay the bills, much less get ahead. And his apparent belief that it's still the 50's, where Dads work to provide for the family, Moms stay home & raise the kids, and there's always enough money coming in to save for college & retirement - he just doesn't get that life isn't like that for the 99%.
His plan to cut taxes will only make it worse: less revenue forces more cuts, and the downward spiral continues. For everyone who's not in Romney's tax bracket - won't hurt him or his a bit.
bobwg
Expert Expediter
There you go spouting bs taxes are not the problem the stupid fed is the problem spending and wasting to much money and just because someone is lucky to be rich does not mean they dont under stand what its like to be poor or middle class and letting business and people who invest in business or spend their money key word is their money not the lousy govt money helps the economomy better than the govt taking it and spending on things like the stupid volt car or Solyndra. Weak dollar is when the value of the dollar is lowered due to too much debt and also the fed printing and printing and printing and printing more dollars. Fewer dollars means the dollar is worth more , less govt debt helps make our dollar worth more.
Obama is so clueless about working people it is almost funny. He has put more out of work that Bush did. Not to mention that more that 25% of the Nations ENTIRE debt, since 1776 has been taken on SINCE Obama was elected. That number is STAGGERING. Doing a GREAT job on truck regs too.
cubansammich
Not a Member
Very well put.
Humble2drive
Expert Expediter
No! The execs ran wild because they wanted to maximize their revenue through any means that they could get away with. They also wanted bigger mansions, faster cars and more prostitutes.
Yes! They are adults, they are educated and they know the difference between right and wrong; however, they are willing to compromise that last part.
If you misunderstood my point then I apologize for not being clear.
I did not mention excusing their behavior. I proposed that pouring energy into reprimanding them will not solve the problem. Pouring that same energy into making meaningful changes in policy would be more productive.
As Alan Greenspan discovered, too much de-regulation contributed to the melt down. If derivatives, CDOs and ARMs had been unlawful then the kids would not have had a playground to play on.
As for now? Keep slamming on the CEOs, they deserve it. I just don't think they get home, pull up Occupy the boardroom website and do some soul searching.
I mean,where does someone learn this class warfare blibbly blab?. It's always the rich vs. poor argument.It really is a lame argument too. Romney's tax plan includes closing loop holes for the more wealthy individuals and reducing tax rates accross the board. The tax cuts, just like Ronald Reagan's , will INCREASE revenues to the federal government. The tax cuts will spearhead economic growth., creating more tax payers,NOT LESS. Fuel prices are sky high and Romney is for utilizing all our resources to drive costs down. Doesn't the high energy prices affect us all and put a wet blanket on people's spending power and their ability to save? The downward spiral is more like a death spiral with Obama as president. His backward energy policies, constant attacks on businesses, Obamacare monstrosity, and his threat to raise taxes all hurt the economy and the people in it.
Humble2drive
Expert Expediter
Are you saying that Bernanke, who was appointed by Bush for his pro conservative views and who is independent of either political party acts through the "support" of the Obama administration?
He was "printing money" long before this administration and so was Greenspan.
Then you end by saying that the Democrats are printing money? Nothing like re-writing history to support your views. Our economic system was set up with a separation between Government fiscal policy and Fed Monetary policy to avoid any such relationship and if you can prove your charge then Fox News will hire you tomorrow.
Consider this: Bernanke made this most recent announcement just one day after Romney Stated in an interview that if elected he would replace Bernanke. Now that could have provided some motivation.
Are you saying that Bernanke, who was appointed by Bush for his pro conservative views and who is independent of either political party acts through the "support" of the Obama administration?
He was "printing money" long before this administration and so was Greenspan.
Then you end by saying that the Democrats are printing money? Nothing like re-writing history to support your views. Our economic system was set up with a separation between Government fiscal policy and Fed Monetary policy to avoid any such relationship and if you can prove your charge then Fox News will hire you tomorrow.
Consider this: Bernanke made this most recent announcement just one day after Romney Stated in an interview that if elected he would replace Bernanke. Now that could have provided some motivation.
You are correct in that Bush appointed Berneke. You are also correct in that both Berneke and Greenspan have printed money. I didn't make the claim that they didn't. I do however think because of the Obama policies, Berneke is now printing money with no cap on amount or time limit. That is where the difference is. I don't think it is a surprise that we are doing this right in front of a election either. As for Romney replacing him, might be a good idea at this point. Then it depends on who takes that position.
He maybe isn't as clueless as you think. Here is the problem with printing money and how it effects the value of currency.
Lets say you have someone today making 20k a year. As you print money and devalue the dollar, the next year that individual's 20k becomes worth say 17k. Which means they have less spending power. Because we are in a global economy, that 3 dollar gallon of gas becomes 4. Checked food prices lately? What was 2 dollars last year, is now three. Keep in mind that these prices were climbing way before the drought. When you hear references to inflation, this is the root cause.
When you effectly pay more for everything, so does everyone else. Which means, higher housing, higher taxes, higher everything.
Everyone pays with the poor getting hit the hardest. You are correct, the rich certainly won't be impacted the same way.
As for tax cuts, Romney wants to extend the Bush cuts for another year. Obama supported this last year with a tanking economy. Changed his mind for political reasons. In reality, it would cover the interest on the debt for four days taxing the 200k and over crowd. Not much impact either way. The other tax cut he wants is on corporate taxes to stop companies from going overseas where it is cheaper. If the tax rate is 20 percent in another country, why pay 35 here? Just how it is in a global economy. Add in Obamacare and piles of regulations, and you drive businesses into other markets which cost jobs. Why do you think Obama's job czar Jeffery Emmelt keeps sending jobs to China? Same reason. Doesn't mean ROmney hasn't done the same thing. The difference is the timing. When Romney was involved with Bain, unemployment was 4 to 5 percent. This was over 20 years ago. I believe that is the reason Clinton hasn't trashed Romney on any of the Bain issues. Actually said he had a "stellar business record".
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