Marxism's March

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
California is already going broke. They have already proven that they are unable to handle money in any way, shape or form. All their grand socialism plans have done little more than line the pockets of a few politicians. Cities are going bankrupt.

Their answer? MORE socialism. This bill is no more than a ruse to put even MORE of the People's money into the hands of the State. We will soon see the day when the "State" controls everything. They will tell us what we can earn, or not earn.

Marxism insures equal poverty and tyranny for all.



[h=1]Calif. lawmakers OK private-sector retirement plan[/h]
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — Democratic lawmakers on Friday approved a bill that would create the nation's first state-run retirement program for private-sector workers over the objection of Republicans who said it creates a new liability for taxpayers.


The Senate sent SB1234 to Gov. Jerry Brown on a 25-13 vote just before the Legislature's midnight deadline. The Assembly approved the bill earlier in the day on a 44-24 vote.


Democratic supporters say the bill would establish the California Secure Choice Retirement Savings Program for nearly 7 million low-income workers whose private employers don't offer retirement plans.


According to the bill's author, Sen. Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles, the program directs employers to withhold 3 percent of their workers' pay unless the employee opts out of the savings program. It would be administered by a seven-member board chaired by the state treasurer.


Democrats said the program gives workers more savings options, particularly women working low-paying jobs. Supporters say it will not cost the state money because it will be backed by underwriters.


But Republicans said they have too many questions about the program and note that if the underwriter fails to meet investment targets, taxpayers and employers could be held responsible for covering investment losses and administrative overhead.


"It's still troublesome that the measure would have the government take over the retirement, insert itself into the retirement plans in the private sector here," said Sen. Doug La Malfa, R-Willows. "For the state to be usurping that responsibility from the private sector is really a giant leap."


Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, D-San Francisco, defended the bill, saying it sets up a fiscally responsible program. He noted it would not be implemented unless the savings program is exempt from federal rules that cover private-sector defined benefit plans. Such plans have to meet minimum standards under the federal Employee Retirement Income Security Act.


The bill also requires the board to submit an annual audit. It is opposed by businesses, insurance companies and financial services firms.


"I encourage you not to be fooled by the Wall Street subterfuge," Ammiano said. "This is a responsible bill that will be a tremendous benefit for working Californians."


Morrell said low-income workers might be better off financially if they put after-tax earnings into a Roth IRA, which would allow them to earn investments tax-free.


He also expressed concern that the fund could be administered by the California Public Employees' Retirement System. The state's largest pension fund posted an annual return of just 1 percent last year, missing its own long-term annual target of 7.5 percent.


"CalPERS is going to request to manage this money, and I know they've done a pretty good job when the stock market was booming, but the last few years they have not done very well and that's another concern," Morrell said.


De Leon introduced the bill earlier this year in response to what he called the "looming retirement tsunami" as millions of low-wage workers face financial hardship in their retirement years. He said the program would act as a supplement to Social Security by offering private-sector workers a portable savings plan with a guaranteed return.


"One of the most common myths being perpetrated about this bill is that it creates a pension for private-sector workers," Ammiano said.




Calif. lawmakers OK private-sector retirement plan - Yahoo! News
 

Monty

Expert Expediter
I think the actual plan is a good idea, such a thing should also replace SS .... that said, the devil is in the details.

I'm sure such a plan would NOT be administered in such a way that it would benefit the "little guy". Politicans, (in general), so not give a rats rear end about the people they represent, only how to advance the power of the government.

So I guess, in this instance, it may very well be a way to advance Marxism.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I think the actual plan is a good idea, such a thing should also replace SS .... that said, the devil is in the details.

I'm sure such a plan would NOT be administered in such a way that it would benefit the "little guy". Politicans, (in general), so not give a rats rear end about the people they represent, only how to advance the power of the government.

So I guess, in this instance, it may very well be a way to advance Marxism.

Social Security needs replaced. It is just one of many failed socialist boondoggles. It will have to be phased out since millions are stuck with it. It has taken decades to get into this mess, it will takes even longer to get out.

Government controls, rules and stifles. California has proven they are not able to handle this. You can rest assured that the monies stolen from employers and workers well be diverted to other 'more important' issues when they arise. Just another tax, 'er, government theft program.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
Sounds like the toll road crowd, tax tax tax and the roads are never fixed, awwh, the intervention of ,"High, I'm with the government and I am here to help you............ we have all seen how that pans out and it never does.imho
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
IF all this socialism worked, no one would be poor, roads would be perfect, everyone could read and write, there would be no crime and everything would just be hunky dory. I does amaze me. This sort of thing has failed every where and every place it has been tried, and yet, we keep trying it. OVER AND OVER AGAIN. The People just line for what they are owed and we continue to go broke. Just like Europe.
 

Humble2drive

Expert Expediter
"According to the bill's author, Sen. Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles, the program directs employers to withhold 3 percent of their workers' pay unless the employee opts out of the savings program. It would be administered by a seven-member board chaired by the state treasurer."


So let me get this straight. Your going to withhold 3% of my pay, put it in a fund that is currently earning a whopping 1% and then I can just hope that the fund will be solvent years from now??
Please pass me the opt out form!!!!
:(
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
"According to the bill's author, Sen. Kevin de Leon, D-Los Angeles, the program directs employers to withhold 3 percent of their workers' pay unless the employee opts out of the savings program. It would be administered by a seven-member board chaired by the state treasurer."


So let me get this straight. Your going to withhold 3% of my pay, put it in a fund that is currently earning a whopping 1% and then I can just hope that the fund will be solvent years from now??
Please pass me the opt out form!!!!
:(

Don't forget that they will 'invest' that money in bike paths and flowers. At a negative return rate.
 

chefdennis

Veteran Expediter
Calif. is broke, this is nothing more then a cash grab for them to misuse as they have everything else...
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
IF all this socialism worked, no one would be poor, roads would be perfect, everyone could read and write, there would be no crime and everything would just be hunky dory. I does amaze me. This sort of thing has failed every where and every place it has been tried, and yet, we keep trying it. OVER AND OVER AGAIN. The People just line for what they are owed and we continue to go broke. Just like Europe.

1: It's not socialism.
2: The system isn't the problem [mostly], it's the people who abuse it. [Like investing transportation funds in public gardens.] The government has become so large and complex that we don't really know what they're doing anymore, and we don't know how to fix that.
3: Europe in general, and Greece in particular are always mentioned - how come no one ever mentions the Scandinavian countries, where it's working pretty dam well?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
1: It's not socialism.
2: The system isn't the problem [mostly], it's the people who abuse it. [Like investing transportation funds in public gardens.] The government has become so large and complex that we don't really know what they're doing anymore, and we don't know how to fix that.
3: Europe in general, and Greece in particular are always mentioned - how come no one ever mentions the Scandinavian countries, where it's working pretty dam well?

Works so well in Scandinavia they have some of the highest suicide rates on earth.

Socialism assumes that people are incapable to fending for themselves. It assumes that a few elite can provide what THEY believe the masses need. NOTHING is better than freedom and socialism destroys freedom. NOTHING is better than winning, or losing, on one's own merit. I PITY those who don't enjoy the game of life on their OWN terms. It must be SAD to be that WEAK of mind and spirit that they feel they need cared for. SAD. Socialism SUCKS! Long live the strong of mind and spirit, the protectors of freedom! If socialism is SO good, why must it ALWAYS require the FORCE of law to make it work? IF it were SO good people would just to it on their own.
 

cubansammich

Not a Member
IF all this socialism worked, no one would be poor, roads would be perfect, everyone could read and write, there would be no crime and everything would just be hunky dory. I does amaze me. This sort of thing has failed every where and every place it has been tried, and yet, we keep trying it. OVER AND OVER AGAIN. The People just line for what they are owed and we continue to go broke. Just like Europe.

Because a system has not been successful or reached it's full potential is not necessarily the fault of the system itself. Those who administer it are responsible for it's proper function. When you insert politics into the mix the system dujor is susceptible to the same whips and chains as any other, whether it be free market, etc. America has long been called the Grand Experiment. If this is true various systems should be implemented from time to time so as to determine which provides the most benefit to the most people.
 

cubansammich

Not a Member
Works so well in Scandinavia they have some of the highest suicide rates on earth.

Socialism assumes that people are incapable to fending for themselves. It assumes that a few elite can provide what THEY believe the masses need. NOTHING is better than freedom and socialism destroys freedom. NOTHING is better than winning, or losing, on one's own merit. I PITY those who don't enjoy the game of life on their OWN terms. It must be SAD to be that WEAK of mind and spirit that they feel they need cared for. SAD. Socialism SUCKS! Long live the strong of mind and spirit, the protectors of freedom! If socialism is SO good, why must it ALWAYS require the FORCE of law to make it work? IF it were SO good people would just to it on their own.

Your words qualify as fine conjecture but little else. Once, just once could you provide even a morsel of fact to bolster your position?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Because a system has not been successful or reached it's full potential is not necessarily the fault of the system itself. Those who administer it are responsible for it's proper function. When you insert politics into the mix the system dujor is susceptible to the same whips and chains as any other, whether it be free market, etc. America has long been called the Grand Experiment. If this is true various systems should be implemented from time to time so as to determine which provides the most benefit to the most people.

When human nature is IGNORED ANY system is bound to fail. MANKIND is MEANT to thrive on it's own effort. When MANKIND has it's challenge removed, either by a natural system, as in food too easy to find, or man made, when government assumes the responsibility of the individual, MANKIND stagnates. It is ONLY when MAN is challenged and allowed to overcome that challenge on HIS own effort that MAN excels.

MANKIND is like metal. MAN needs to be stressed and tempered by 'heat' and 'bending'. It is ONLY when stressed that MAN gains strength. The BIGGER the challenge overcome, the greater the confidence gained.

Socialism and Marxism promotes weakness. They promote weakness of mind, spirit and soul. Empty self esteem, as in patting a kid on the back for a "D" or ENFORCING "FAIRNESS" to the lazy promotes uselessness. It is ONLY when MAN overcomes great obstacals, often through failure, HE achieves greatness.

One does not learn how to shoot a perfect round of skeet without first missing. NO great baseball pitcher has become great by never losing.

Marxism and socialism attempt to remove failure and insert "fairness" in it's place. That does NOTHING but promote weakness.
 

muttly

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Because a system has not been successful or reached it's full potential is not necessarily the fault of the system itself. Those who administer it are responsible for it's proper function. When you insert politics into the mix the system dujor is susceptible to the same whips and chains as any other, whether it be free market, etc. America has long been called the Grand Experiment. If this is true various systems should be implemented from time to time so as to determine which provides the most benefit to the most people.

The capitalist system hands down provides the most benefit to the most people. No other system is even close.
 

skyraider

Veteran Expediter
US Navy
1: It's not socialism.
2: The system isn't the problem [mostly], it's the people who abuse it. [Like investing transportation funds in public gardens.] The government has become so large and complex that we don't really know what they're doing anymore, and we don't know how to fix that.
3: Europe in general, and Greece in particular are always mentioned - how come no one ever mentions the Scandinavian countries, where it's working pretty dam well?

No Latinos there most likely.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
The capitalist system hands down provides the most benefit to the most people. No other system is even close.

No argument there. It's capitalism without restraint that causes the trouble, as human nature causes the greedheads [and they are the kind most likely to be 'successful' at capitalism] to disregard anything & everything else in order to rake in ever greater profits.
LOS is mistaken in believing that the US govt is socialist, or wants to be, and he ignores the same human nature that he cites when he suggests that people want to be taken care of - BS! People have an innate need to work, to be useful, to take care of those they love, and I get sick of seeing that completely rejected by people who ought to know better.
 

cheri1122

Veteran Expediter
Driver
LOS: since you mentioned suicide, you ought to check out what the trend is in the US military these days. Looks like 'killing people and blowing stuff up' isn't quite as much fun as some seem to think.
:rolleyes:
 

davekc

Senior Moderator
Staff member
Fleet Owner
1: It's not socialism.
2: The system isn't the problem [mostly], it's the people who abuse it. [Like investing transportation funds in public gardens.] The government has become so large and complex that we don't really know what they're doing anymore, and we don't know how to fix that.
3: Europe in general, and Greece in particular are always mentioned - how come no one ever mentions the Scandinavian countries, where it's working pretty dam well?

Probably want to pick something other than Scandinavian countries. Only the very wealthy are doing well there. The average joe is averaging 24k a year with one of the highest costs of living in the world. A Mcdonalds dinner there is roughly 8 US dollars. One of their problems like here is debt is getting out of control. Add the fact that they are tied to Greece because of the Euro, and they have basically the same monetary problems. Greece gets singled out more only because of riots and those types of things. I would probably pick another country/region.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
LOS: since you mentioned suicide, you ought to check out what the trend is in the US military these days. Looks like 'killing people and blowing stuff up' isn't quite as much fun as some seem to think.
:rolleyes:


Who ever said it was fun? :confused: War is a HORRIBLE thing, to be avoided as much as possible. That is, however, the SOLE purpose of the military, to protect and defend the Constitution of United States. That often requires death and destruction. The trend towards suicide is NOT due to that job as much as it is due to the drugs they are being pumped full of.

I have seen the drug thing first hand. What this administration, and yes it is the policy of this administration, is doing to vets is a crime. They do not wish to deal with the issues, they just pump them full of all kinds of drugs, often with major interactions, and get rid of them.
 
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