RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Hehehe ... certainly a valid point ...
But it is, nonetheless, the foundational basis for the State's very existence.
Man forced son to carry 23# rock
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But it is, nonetheless, the foundational basis for the State's very existence.
RLENT
Veteran Expediter
Or if the kid had died as the consequence of some (either known or unknown) medical condition, aggravated by overexertion ...
It will be interesting to see what - if any - additional info comes out on this story.
Given that the aggrieved party is 16 years old, he is likely to reach the age of majority before a resolution in the courts takes place. Overzealous social workers plus busybody cops and prosecutors are creating a parallel universe where parenting practically requires having an attorney on retainer.
If the 16 year-old doesn't respect or appreciate his parents' contributions and struggles, he can file a petition to be declared an emancipated minor.
If the 16 year-old doesn't respect or appreciate his parents' contributions and struggles, he can file a petition to be declared an emancipated minor.
Time outs don't work - for those of us who can happily amuse ourselves all by ourselves, lol.
Which is what makes parenting such a challenge: there is no right or wrong way that works on every kid, because they're all different. More important, they learn differently, one from another.
The goal is to teach them so they understand the why of the underlying principle, [respect, hard work], and can apply it to other situations in life.
I don't see how hitting accomplishes that goal, because might does not make right. Kids learn not to do the things that will cause them to get spanked, but how does that translate to adulthood, where hitting is against the law?
Which is what makes parenting such a challenge: there is no right or wrong way that works on every kid, because they're all different. More important, they learn differently, one from another.
The goal is to teach them so they understand the why of the underlying principle, [respect, hard work], and can apply it to other situations in life.
I don't see how hitting accomplishes that goal, because might does not make right. Kids learn not to do the things that will cause them to get spanked, but how does that translate to adulthood, where hitting is against the law?
It translates into adulthood in the form of "consequences for your actions." Young children understand the immediacy of pain. As they get older they can intelligently understand the reasoning of consequences. You won't teach an adult anything by spanking him anymore than you can teach a 3 year old something by reasoning with him.
Truth. I believe that most things I've learned in life have come from the old adage, the seeking of pleasure or the avoidance of pain.
we work to have money and nice things, and avoid being broke. we get in a relationship to have someone to share life with and to avoid being lonely. I listened to my momma, because I wanted to show her my respect, & I also wanted to avoid those switches lol.
my 2-year-old granddaughters do not understand reasoning. but they understand a smack on the fingers.
granted, you have to watch that fine line between discipline, and abuse, but hard labor is a fine lesson teacher.
My labor was extra chores, example mowing grass, tilling garden, chopping wood etc, yeah, I'm an old fart we had a wood furnace lol... I learned.
I had friends, military brats, whose parents may have made them run or do push ups or pull ups etc...
carryng a block may be extreme, but unless it physically hurt him to the point of non recovery, I do not see abuse. I see a lesson... and and the authorities sticking their nose in.
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Having to go out and cut your own switch is a real lesson learner.
Didn't take very long for all the little tree branches to disappear and realize that pretty soon I was gonna need saw instead of a knife to cut those switches.
...and I learned very quickly .. God help me if I brought in a lil twig!
There were "acceptable" sizes! Dale
Ok, so the idea is to prevent them from doing whatever it is that small kids do [stick forks in the electric outlets, snatch toys from other kids, pull the dog's tail] until they are old enough to reason: agreed. Spanking/hitting is not the only way, but it's the easiest way for parents. And even if it's ok to spank until they are old enough to understand reason, the spanking/hitting continues to be the primary disciplinary method far beyond that point, IMO.
The kid in the OP is 16 - he should have long since understood why school and chores need to be done before indulging in video games. If he needed reminded, taking the games & player away would seem the obvious step, but there's nothing to indicate if that was done first.
There's also nothing to indicate it wasn't done first and perhaps repeatedly. A friend of mine is doing a large part of the raising of her 14 year old grandson. He needs a few miles with a 23 pound rock on his back or perhaps a few stacks of 23 pound rocks to pound into driveway gravel. He also needs a few good headslaps and considering how he speaks to his grandmother perhaps a few good face slaps as well. He's on is way to trouble and is at least a decade away from full brain development so reason and common sense may not be an option for many years.
Option two would be remove the door from his room, remove every electronic device, give him a Big Ben wind up alarm clock and a mattress on the floor and the opportunity to earn back her things she bought to allow him to use since he has no things of his own. Eventually he could earn back the door as well.
Oh, the liberals would gnash and wring over that though.
Option two would be remove the door from his room, remove every electronic device, give him a Big Ben wind up alarm clock and a mattress on the floor and the opportunity to earn back her things she bought to allow him to use since he has no things of his own. Eventually he could earn back the door as well.
Oh, the liberals would gnash and wring over that though.
Actually, spanking is completely unnecessary for at least those three examples. Sticking a fork or other metal object into an electric socket is a lesson learned far more immediately than any spanking will teach. Snatching the toys of other kids is one that the kids usually resolve amongst themselves, especially when you tell your kid to share, then teach them how to do so. If they continue to disobey and snatch toys, then a spanking might be in order. and if not Pulling the dog's tail is not something that a spanking will cure, as the dog will take care of that just fine. You can tell a kid not to pull the dog's tail, but you can't spank him before the fact. If you tell him and he pulls it anyway, the dog will have the final say on that one, usually in the same manner that you should teach young kids how to obey and what is and is not acceptable, first by a loud warning. If the kid doesn't learn from the warning, a snap will often do it. If not, then a more painful chomp will usually get the point across.
The point being, if you do that again, there are consequences to be paid.
When a kid gets to the age where they can understand that, usually around 3 years give or take, you tell them not to do something. If they do it anyway, you tell them that if they do it again they'll get a spanking. If they do it anyway, you give them the spanking. After a few times of that cycle they'll learn that consequences are real.
Past a certain age I'm sure it continues to be the primary point of discipline for some parents, but that's not the norm. Kids (who are spanked at all) are generally spanked from an early age which is usually from 3 to about 12. Some as early as 2, but that's rare (and there's no excuse for spanking a child under 2 years of age). Most kids will not need to be spanked beyond 9 or 10, others still need it at 12. But after 12, the teen years are for prepping them for adulthood, and spanking isn't effective at that point. But they still need to know that consequences are still there, but they are consequences that mean more to them where they start to lose privileges and liberties, not unlike the consequences of breaking the law as an adult.
It wasn't video games, it was YouTube videos. And the reason for the unusual punishment is because he hadn't, in fact, understood why school and chores need to be done before watching those videos, and the parents stated (to the judge) that they had already tried everything with this kid and nothing worked. He had a problem in school for at least the previous 3 years, and it got so bad they had to pull him from school and home school him, but the problems continued.
The solution you suggest, letting the child learn from the electric outlet, the other child, and the dog, are not very good in practice. The child could be injured seriously by electric shock, or the other kid, and the dog too - or the dog could just get up and walk away. The potential consequences could be far more than anticipated, and the lesson learned could be by the parent.
I totally understand that some kids [especially adolescents] are so resistant to learning anything they don't want to learn that trying to keep them in line is a nightmare. There are adults like that too, and jail seems to be the only way to keep them from harming others. When parents can't control their offspring, juvenile detention is often resorted to, but I don't think the eventual outcome is any better.
I said I don't know what the answer is - I just don't think that hitting them is a good way to teach them to be good people.
I totally understand that some kids [especially adolescents] are so resistant to learning anything they don't want to learn that trying to keep them in line is a nightmare. There are adults like that too, and jail seems to be the only way to keep them from harming others. When parents can't control their offspring, juvenile detention is often resorted to, but I don't think the eventual outcome is any better.
I said I don't know what the answer is - I just don't think that hitting them is a good way to teach them to be good people.
OK, so I gotta ask...
What is your solution to teaching a 2 year old child about not sticking a fork into an electric socket?
How do you teach an 18-month old, before they've pulled the dog's tail, not to pull the dog's tail?
And, how do you teach conflict resolution to kids without allowing to learn the process of conflict resolution?
What is your solution to teaching a 2 year old child about not sticking a fork into an electric socket?
How do you teach an 18-month old, before they've pulled the dog's tail, not to pull the dog's tail?
And, how do you teach conflict resolution to kids without allowing to learn the process of conflict resolution?
You don't let your child roam around the house carrying metal cutlery. And you also have childproof covers over the outlets until they are old enough to understand.
At least that's what I did with my two kids. Neither one of them exploded.
At least that's what I did with my two kids. Neither one of them exploded.
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That's the prophylactic approach, and it should be used. I'm curious how the prophylactic approach would work with a dog's tail. Duct tape the tail to the side of the dog, maybe? Everything in the world is new and interesting to a kid, so everything they encounter is worthy of closer investigation. That's how kids learn things. A snot-soaked finger in a light socket, a stray bobby pin that's practically designed to fit nicely into an electrical outlet, a stainless steel butter knife slid into one of the slots of a toaster... there is no end to the ways a kid can find to place themselves in danger of sustaining an electrical pop. Kids will unplug a lamp and immediately wonder what else can be stuck into those little holes. Most homes are pretty well protected against accidents, but I don't know a single parent who will honestly tell you they can keep an eye on their kids 100 percent of the time and that it's impossible to keep their kids accident free.
Most will be satisfied if they can just keep their kids from exploding.
One of my earliest memories ever is the time I was in the front yard playing, with both of my parents right there within a few yards of me, and I stepped with my bare feet onto a clover juuuust after a honey bee had landed there. I learned, almost instantly, without having to be spanked or even yelled at, to give honey bees a wide berth.
"but I don't know a single parent who will honestly tell you they can keep an eye on their kids 100 percent of the time and that it's impossible to keep their kids accident free.
Most will be satisfied if they can just keep their kids from exploding."
There is no possible way to keep an eye on your kids 100% of the time, nor is that a good idea. Kids have to be kids. They have to learn to push their personal boundaries in their own way. Sometimes they get hurt doing so. It is impossible to keep your kids, or anyone, accident free. Kids learn from normal, everyday accidents. Too much "protection" can be as damaging, albeit in different ways, as too little. Accidents, mistakes, and poor judgement, are all part of the maturation process. You are correct, if they did not explode you have succeeded.
Most will be satisfied if they can just keep their kids from exploding.
"There is no possible way to keep an eye on your kids 100% of the time, nor is that a good idea. Kids have to be kids. They have to learn to push their personal boundaries in their own way. Sometimes they get hurt doing so. It is impossible to keep your kids, or anyone, accident free. Kids learn from normal, everyday accidents. Too much "protection" can be as damaging, albeit in different ways, as too little. Accidents, mistakes, and poor judgement, are all part of the maturation process. You are correct, if they did not explode you have succeeded.
For the first two, childproofing the home and eternal vigilance. For years, sigh.
For the third, negotiation. Even a 5 year old gets the concept of "You want this, and I want that, let's make a deal."