log book questions

[jbrand]

I work for a local hot shot company in Dallas. We do a lot of hot shots out of town but rarely have stuff coming back to Dallas. Say I do a hot shot to El Paso which is 10hours drop off. When I am heading back empty am I still required to log that as on duty?

My thought is that I am empty not for hire and using the truck as personal use to get back home. That should be off duty right?

Thank you for any advise about this.

 

[AMonger]

Nope, fraid not. That's driving and has to be logged on line 3.

 

[cheri1122]

If you are required to log, all driving is to be logged as such. If you were to log it as off duty, a surprise inspection would land you in deep doodoo, trying to explain why you're not where you were when you went off duty.
Even time worked at a second or casual job while off duty is to be logged, as on duty, not driving, and counts against your weekly allowable hours.
I don't know about Texas, but many states require an intrastate permit for picking up & delivering within the state - something I learned during one of those surprise inspections in Alabama. The LEO noticed a run from Birmingham to Mobile the day before, and asked to see the intrastate permit that I didn't know anything about. The fine was minor, and written for the carrier, but it's better to know than look [and feel] stupid, IMO.

 

[paullud]

Texas has an intrastate permit.

Sent from my ADR6400L using EO Forums

 

[usafk9]

Have to disagree on the logging. My bride and I just deadheaded home just shy of 3,000 miles. We started each day by logging off-duty driving. Coincidentally, we had one of those "surprise inspections" just 200 miles from home, with a LEO that appeared bent on writing us for improper logging, among other things. Our carrier limits ours to 45 minutes per driver, per day, of off-duty driving. We were unladen, and relieved of duty (we took ourselves out of service), and there was a record of both. While neither of us came anywhere close to our daily driving limits, had our carrier not imposed that restriction, we could have driven the entire trip as off-duty driving.

This issue has been discussed in the FedEx CC forum, at length. I believe the pertinent issue is that the driver still needs to get his/her required rest.

 

[Brisco]

What kind of vehicle are you doing these HotShots in??

Could it be a 24ft Box Truck by chance? Or are you in a 1 ton Pick Up pulling a trailer?

 

[pearlpro]

If your a commercial for hire carrier doing Hotshots and you have to LOG then it must be logged both ways, you cant just say Oh Im off duty now and drive another 10 hours...its only under 100 Miles that you dont log for say Local deliverys.

 

[Monty]

You are "subject" to loading .... and don't tell me you would not break that "off duty" status for the right load.

You "might" get away with a bobtail tractor, with no cargo capacity.

 

[usafk9]

You are "subject" to loading .... and don't tell me you would not break that "off duty" status for the right load.

You "might" get away with a bobtail tractor, with no cargo capacity.

For reasons that I won't discuss here, no I would not have.

However, if I'm away from home, between loads, running around town for groceries
( or whatever), I would still be logging off-duty driving. Should I get the call for any load that I accept, I would then go on duty.

Nothing to "get away" with. Please don't try to imply that we bent the HOS rules.

 

[zorry]

A few weeks ago we were in a secure hold over a weekend.
We left,drove seventeen miles round trip. We did laundry,grocery shopping. One driver remained awake in cab at all times. This was a loaded D
Was this eligible to be considered off-duty driving ?

 

[usafk9]

A few weeks ago we were in a secure hold over a weekend.
We left,drove seventeen miles round trip. We did laundry,grocery shopping. One driver remained awake in cab at all times. This was a loaded D
Was this eligible to be considered off-duty driving ?

Negative. If I understand your post correctly, your truck was laden. The person in the cab is on-duty.

 

[moose]

Zorry, next time you do it, please run me over,
i won't have to work for the rest of my life.

 

[moose]

Nothing to "get away" with. Please don't try to imply that we bent the HOS rules.

Not going to imply nothing, simply state it as it is: your carrier is playing the cost effective calculator.they can afford it, you can't. your choice. still unlawful .you can only get away with the Question 26 answer on the green book, which will not help you one bit.
see Zorry post, and 'please' do the same.i can use a long vacation.

 

[zorry]

I figured since I left the secure hold,returned to the secure hold I didn't make any progress towards delivery. Our crack safety dept set me straight.
Seemed to me that's what personal use is all about.
Going shopping , to me is personal use. The fact that I have a pallet back there seems irrelevant.
Lesson learned.

 

[moose]

, I would still be logging off-duty driving.

What is that ?
can someone post a link, to the regulation book when the mystic 'line 5' is allowed to be used ?
seams like a recruiting/retention myth .

 

[cheri1122]

AJ: I'm confused about the 'driving off duty' - how do you log it? And how does it affect your 11 & 14 hr limits? I've heard some carriers allow 'off duty driving' for personal errands, but have no direct experience - I just park @ Meijers or WalMart, and I can walk off duty, lol.
My reply to the OP was based upon the impression that he would be available for a load, should one appear, which is in service, which negates off duty. The separate conditions benefit the drivers, as I don't want to be called with load offers that I can't take, any more than dispatch needs to waste the time calling.

 

[zorry]

I don't think you can get away with it in a bobtail tractor.
Otherwise, guys delivering trailers would do this all the time.
I was leased to Trailer Transit. Drivers would argue they were "RV'ing" after a delivery. Most of the time they were heading to their next trailer.
If I del Louisville and personal use ( line 5) to Seymour,In what happens if my next load comes out of Seymour or further north ? Didn't I just run 50 miles w/o logging it ?
I only use personal use if I leave one place and return to same place.

 

[cheri1122]

"Line 5"? Over 10 years logging, I've never seen a line 5.

 

[zorry]

Line 5 is a term where e-logs are allowed to move the vehicle while off-duty.
It's legal. Anytime the vehicle is moving it will show driving: either normal on-duty driving or (line 5) off-duty driving.
Fedex allows each driver 45 minutes off-duty driving in a 24 hour period. If unladen and having available hours.
I believe a very large T/L carrier allows four hours.

 

[usafk9]

Cheri-
On a paper log, it would simply be a notation, I believe. Not sure where L-1 is on the new Qualcomms or similar, but there is a circle that we can darken that reflects off-duty driving. Further, a macro 12 (I believe....maybe 25...not sure...not with truck) that we send is to place us out of service. However, we do not have to be out of service to use the personal conveyance time in HOS.

When still with FDCC, and when we first got the new QC's, Big Red**** (Doug) did some fantastic research on it, even going so far as to contact FMCSA, both on the phone, and in writing, to get this clarification. When the system was first installed in the fleet, I believe there was not going to be an allowance (it is carrier's choice), but it is an option in the HOS. Additionally, the FMCSA's research safety council (don't ask me to find the name) that provided input on their use, specifically advised that a separate function be allowed to show off-duty driving for implementation of the EOBR's. Regarding the 11 hour rule, since our carrier's daily limit of personal conveyance time is 45 minutes, we can drive those 45, and then a real annoying message comes across that says. "You have exceeded the maximum amount of off-duty driving time". Regarding the 14, I am guessing that it would technically let you go to 14:44 without a warning, but I do not know for certain. Not going to try to test that one.

Zorry-my understanding is, under your scenario, is if you were not told to move toward Seymour, then that could have been logged as off-duty driving. However, you and the boss would have either had to split it up between the two of you, or on two separate days, as FDCC only allows you 45 miles per day, per driver.

Moose-Look elsewhere. Daddy's wallet is closed. And sorry, brother, looks like you'll have to keep working.......not unlawful. I encourage you all to look at Doug's research in the FDCC forum. Very detailed, and from the horse's mouths. If it's still scorching tomorrow, and I don't feel like working outside, I'll gladly provide the link.