Less Than a Buck to laredo

[Vinnie T]

The question I have is to the people that have sat in the dispatch department for their carrier, did you see the rates they were getting paid versus what they were offering to pay the o/o?

I know too the industry is going to this bid process where 300 plus carriers are bidding on the same loads and cost dictates whom gets the winning bid most of the time. Why wouldn't carriers adopt this model within their own fleets, offer cheap freight to dozens of ops at one time to see who bites. Maybe a op lives in texas and would take that load for a buck a mile to get home? Not saying this is happening but from the FDCC contactors I have spoken with it sure seems that way sometimes.

 

[MYGIA]

That makes total sense. Now the question becomes, are they sending under a buck a mile loads just to certain trucks? In this case, 14 to be exact. Don't know as I am not there. But IF they are, and send those type of loads out, and then as suggested, you must tell them the rate in which you will do it............is that a time saver verses just calling you directly?
Sorry, not seeing it. I still see this as a price driven entity for the benefit of the carrier. Pitting driver against each other is what I see. If as Steve said , he gives them a price in which he will do it......well there is your answer plain and simple.
The disappointing part is that this carrier is directly responsible for driving down rates for ALL carriers IF (and I said IF) they are engaging in this practice.
And no.........don't try to convince me that they have a customer on hold to see if a driver will run a load at a loss for under a dollar a mile (as posted) to make that customer feel special.

Dave has got it right. I am convinced they are having drivers bid against each other. After back-to-back days of countless offers at rates so ridiculously low they are ludicrous, I chatted with one of the dispatchers today. I was told the rates are low, but they don’t mean anything. I was asked, “What can you do the load for?” I am asked this question frequently. Of all the loads I decline, on 95% or more I submit a counter offer for what I can do the load. If others are doing the same, and I suspect they are and pretty much have to, then yes, we are in a bidding war against each other.

A small sampling of the past 48 hours: 72 cents, 93 cents, $1.08, 74 cents, 87 cents, $1.03, 79 cents, 58 cents, 64 cents, 72 cents, 81 cents, 60 cents. Last week I had 15 similar offers in one day! Let’s look at it in total dollars and not cost per mile. The offer comes out for $225. Four trucks decline the offer but submit counter offers of $350, $395, $435 and $500. Who do you thing gets the load? Absolutely this is pitting truck against each other in a bidding war. And the loads are covered, so someone is taking them and someone is working cheap.

A few months ago I chatted with two different drivers about rates. One told me his wife has a great paying job in the mid –6 figures, so as long as the load pays a buck a mile he takes it. The other driver was single and drawing a substantial pension from his first career. He too said he accepts anything paying at least a buck a mile. I’m not in that position and I can’t compete with that.

Someone else said in this thread that it is like throwing a stale biscuit out to 20 starving dogs and seeing who scoops it up. Exactly. I did everything I could to hold it together last year in some very difficult times and managed to come through it. There were some good months in the beginning of this year. But the picture painted above is what I am seeing with increasing regularity for the past 4-6 weeks. This is one dog that hasn’t been able to scoop up too many of those stale biscuits, and it’s becoming a concern.

 

[bubblehead]

A few months ago I chatted with two different drivers about rates. One told me his wife has a great paying job in the mid –6 figures, so as long as the load pays a buck a mile he takes it. The other driver was single and drawing a substantial pension from his first career. He too said he accepts anything paying at least a buck a mile. I’m not in that position and I can’t compete with that.[/FONT]



Someone else said in this thread that it is like throwing a stale biscuit out to 20 starving dogs and seeing who scoops it up. Exactly. I did everything I could to hold it together last year in some very difficult times and managed to come through it. There were some good months in the beginning of this year. But the picture painted above is what I am seeing with increasing regularity for the past 4-6 weeks. This is one dog that hasn’t been able to scoop up too many of those stale biscuits, and it’s becoming a concern.

But as you have indicated in the previous paragraph, the ones scooping up the biscuits are't the ones that are hungry!

 

[greg334]

Hungry is subjective.

 

[skyraider]

Ok,,after reading the rates s trks are paid, and those offers below a dollar a mile, I'll keep rolling in my cv and wont fuss anymore. I would take ur offers and roll, but I cant haul that much weight, only 3000 lbs max in my one ton van. Oh well, its another day in paradise, but I'm happy out here, no spouse anymore, no house payment, no cable payment, no yard to mow, no roof to fix, no hvac to repair, no leaky roof, and if I need a place to stay, I got grown kids who are caught up in bills, cars,leaky roof lifestyle,,,well I have been there too,,what was I thinking? I must be weird, I don't miss that lifestyle at all. I got almost free medical, that little Asian war fixed that, Viet Nam 69-70. yep I'm an old dude now,,I was 24 in 1970, can I turn back the clock,,not,,lol

 

[davekc]

Dave has got it right. I am convinced they are having drivers bid against each other. After back-to-back days of countless offers at rates so ridiculously low they are ludicrous, I chatted with one of the dispatchers today. I was told the rates are low, but they don’t mean anything. I was asked, “What can you do the load for?” I am asked this question frequently. Of all the loads I decline, on 95% or more I submit a counter offer for what I can do the load. If others are doing the same, and I suspect they are and pretty much have to, then yes, we are in a bidding war against each other.

A small sampling of the past 48 hours: 72 cents, 93 cents, $1.08, 74 cents, 87 cents, $1.03, 79 cents, 58 cents, 64 cents, 72 cents, 81 cents, 60 cents. Last week I had 15 similar offers in one day! Let’s look at it in total dollars and not cost per mile. The offer comes out for $225. Four trucks decline the offer but submit counter offers of $350, $395, $435 and $500. Who do you thing gets the load? Absolutely this is pitting truck against each other in a bidding war. And the loads are covered, so someone is taking them and someone is working cheap.

A few months ago I chatted with two different drivers about rates. One told me his wife has a great paying job in the mid –6 figures, so as long as the load pays a buck a mile he takes it. The other driver was single and drawing a substantial pension from his first career. He too said he accepts anything paying at least a buck a mile. I’m not in that position and I can’t compete with that.

Someone else said in this thread that it is like throwing a stale biscuit out to 20 starving dogs and seeing who scoops it up. Exactly. I did everything I could to hold it together last year in some very difficult times and managed to come through it. There were some good months in the beginning of this year. But the picture painted above is what I am seeing with increasing regularity for the past 4-6 weeks. This is one dog that hasn’t been able to scoop up too many of those stale biscuits, and it’s becoming a concern.

Based on your offers and posts of several others that are similar, I don't see another way of looking at it. One can fluff the cotton candy any way they want but it still comes back to the same place. Drivers running at those rates will eventually go broke or they will take them like I might with several other loads on the truck. It is the only way I would even consider them as those are LTL rates. By the hour delivery and exclusivity go right out the window based on those rates. Still have to wonder why anyone would want to stay awake and field that many goofy offers?
Mind as well look at a load board and pick your own.

 

[greg334]

May be they are shaking the trees again to see what drops out of the fleet and what stays.

Sky, you are only as old as you think you are.

 

[skyraider]

Im really 17,,,not,,, but that would work too,,lol

 

[nightcreacher]

It may seem that FDCC is playing one truck against another,but it really isn't what their system is about.It is about speed of getting a truck so they can tell the customer they have a truck available.Yes some of their rates have huge discounts,that make it very difficult to do,and as all know,in the trucking industry,many loads are hauled at sub par rates.Only one that knows what is a good rate for them,or bad is the person taking the load.If a driver is driving for an owner,and all they look at is what their pay will be,then these sub par loads will get covered more often.
No matter how many feel the dispatch system is to get these low rate loads covered,this isn't true,but as I said,if a driver for a contractor has nothing but his time involved,every load will look good to him,or her

 

[davekc]

Steve
I guess what I can't get my head around is the concept of this is done for speed. I have sat in on dispatching with several carriers, and only a handful of loads come up in a day that would need that type of response. Maybe different customers? If you send a load offer out that is cheap, it would take longer than calling the closest truck to get it covered because you have to wait for all the counter offers. The only time you would have to call a truck for speed is maybe a specialty load or they are the only truck in the area and the customer is on the line.
What would be the hurry in say a load called in Thursday for a Monday pickup?
This still looks like it is revenue driven but I am on the outside looking in.

 

[greg334]

It may seem that FDCC is playing one truck against another,but it really isn't what their system is about.It is about speed of getting a truck so they can tell the customer they have a truck available.

Steve, I disagree for a lot of reasons.

It isn't even about speed, the system is what Fedex wants it to be, not what the contractors think it could be and the myopic view of the contractors seems to make me think that they only think that all the work is derived by CC and only CC.

These discounts may be a result of filling gaps within Freight the division, or that may be shaking the tree again - I don't know because I have not asked or care. My concerns are somewhere else.

Nevertheless, it is rather sad to even see these rates from FedEx. They are the largest package company but not the largest trucking company and even though they have a diverse portfolio, they may be hedging themselves for the future.

But the thing seems to be that if we see these discounts to customers who are in a position of being in a competitive arena with other companies for the work a lot of us do, then we may see a drop in our rates and that may be where FedEx is heading.

 

[LDB]

Trucks 1-4 are sitting in an area at 0700. A load picks up at 0900. Trucks 1 and 2 are on the side of town nearest the shipper while trucks 3 and 4 are on the far other side of town and will have to cross through town in rush hour traffic if dispatched.

System 1. Load is offered to one truck. Truck has 15 minutes to respond. Truck 1 takes 13 minutes to say no. Dispatch takes another few minutes to get around to sending it to truck 2. Truck 2 is sort of a jerk and although he isn't going to take the load doesn't bother to respond. That uses the full 15 minutes plus a few more minutes to send it out to truck 3. Time so far about 45 minutes. Truck 3 is offered the load and in a few minutes says no as well. Truck 4 is offered the load and says yes. Elapsed time one hour. Now truck 4 has one hour to face rush hour traffic and get to a pickup 40 miles away.

System 2. Load is offered to trucks 1-4 all at the same time. Trucks have 15 minutes to respond. The highest truck on the board that says yes gets the load. Elapsed time, 16 minutes (15 to respond and a minute for whichever truck 1-4 to be told they have the load. Truck has about 100 minutes to make the pickup in time.

Those are the circumstances when the FX system is at it's best. I'd much rather have over 1.5 hours to get to the shipper than barely or even a little less than an hour, especially if I have to deal with rush hour.

 

[davekc]

I see your point but it would seem easier if they have that little time to just call the closest truck and get a quick answer verses counter offers and all that. Most loads have more window than that in them. 15 or more load offers a day that are cheap just baffles the mind. Can't even imagine that even a quarter of them would be quick pick ups. But again, maybe different customers.

 

[LDB]

I can't speak for anyone else but the majority of my offers are go immediately once dispatched. I do get some that are for later or even next day but most have very little extra time in them.

 

[davekc]

I can't speak for anyone else but the majority of my offers are go immediately once dispatched. I do get some that are for later or even next day but most have very little extra time in them.

I wonder if they are holding the load? You were with Panther and you get those every so often, but certainly not a steady diet of them.

 

[greg334]

But Leo, you missed a couple things that have to do with process flow.

1 - a lot of the process time to book the load is taken up within the window of opportunity. If it is a 'new' customer is more time is taken than what it takes for the load to be dispatched. There is a specific process in place to ensure that FedEx doesn't eat the cost of the load, which in a number of cases sometimes includes a credit check, even for established customers (GM was one who they did credit checks for). All companies do this and it may add 4 hours to the time the customer agrees to the rate and a pickup is made.

2 - A lot of the time, the pickup and delivery time is flexible - with some exceptions. One is having a customer call at 4 PM for a 5 PM pickup But they may close at 5:30 PM. Sometimes another division will take the freight and haul it to the dock where it can be picked up by CC to allow time for this situation. The delivery time is also flexible in many cases, when you are a solo driver and they told the customer that it will be delivered by X in the morning, they often adjust that delivery time because of a number of issues, freight not ready, union people working the docks, slow wrapping of the products, and so on.

 

[MYGIA]

Trucks 1-4 are sitting in an area at 0700. A load picks up at 0900. Trucks 1 and 2 are on the side of town nearest the shipper while trucks 3 and 4 are on the far other side of town and will have to cross through town in rush hour traffic if dispatched.

System 1. Load is offered to one truck. Truck has 15 minutes to respond. Truck 1 takes 13 minutes to say no. Dispatch takes another few minutes to get around to sending it to truck 2. Truck 2 is sort of a jerk and although he isn't going to take the load doesn't bother to respond. That uses the full 15 minutes plus a few more minutes to send it out to truck 3. Time so far about 45 minutes. Truck 3 is offered the load and in a few minutes says no as well. Truck 4 is offered the load and says yes. Elapsed time one hour. Now truck 4 has one hour to face rush hour traffic and get to a pickup 40 miles away.

System 2. Load is offered to trucks 1-4 all at the same time. Trucks have 15 minutes to respond. The highest truck on the board that says yes gets the load. Elapsed time, 16 minutes (15 to respond and a minute for whichever truck 1-4 to be told they have the load. Truck has about 100 minutes to make the pickup in time.

Those are the circumstances when the FX system is at it's best. I'd much rather have over 1.5 hours to get to the shipper than barely or even a little less than an hour, especially if I have to deal with rush hour.

I understand the system as it is designed and for the particular scenario you described. But as another has said, rarely is the pick up time that immediate any more. Many of the times are for later that day or even the next day. There are times a load comes across the screen and I respond immediately to accept it. Within 60 seconds I receive a message telling me it has been dispatched to another truck – obviously one higher up in the queue then me. Sometimes it does take the full 10 minutes or more meaning others in the queue higher than me declined the load. In every case when this happens we are talking about a good to great paying load; maybe $1.75 - $2.25 per mile. It is a no brainer and or course all trucks receiving this type offer could or should respond quickly - IMO.

My response time can be just as quick on an offer at 50 or 60 cents a mile. I know every line item in by operating budget and I know what I need to operate the truck profitably. I can and do submit counter offers more quickly then the allotted 10 minutes. Of course, there are some loads that fall in between the two price ranges noted above,

But to me, when I am getting offer after offer in the 50-90 cent range, and the loads are for pick up anywhere from 8 – 36 hours out, the speed with which dispatch can cover the load becomes secondary to the rate at which they can cover the load. And that allows then time to entertain counter offers and chose the lowest possible rate.

The only other scenario is when a cheap load offer comes. I send a counter offer and then very shortly after that I receive the same offer but now at the price I said I needed to do the load. I accept it and get the load. But this only happens when the need is immediate and there are no other trucks available. Economics 101: supply and demand.

 

[davekc]

I understand the system as it is designed and for the particular scenario you described. But as another has said, rarely is the pick up time that immediate any more. Many of the times are for later that day or even the next day. There are times a load comes across the screen and I respond immediately to accept it. Within 60 seconds I receive a message telling me it has been dispatched to another truck – obviously one higher up in the queue then me. Sometimes it does take the full 10 minutes or more meaning others in the queue higher than me declined the load. In every case when this happens we are talking about a good to great paying load; maybe $1.75 - $2.25 per mile. It is a no brainer and or course all trucks receiving this type offer could or should respond quickly - IMO.

My response time can be just as quick on an offer at 50 or 60 cents a mile. I know every line item in by operating budget and I know what I need to operate the truck profitably. I can and do submit counter offers more quickly then the allotted 10 minutes. Of course, there are some loads that fall in between the two price ranges noted above,

But to me, when I am getting offer after offer in the 50-90 cent range, and the loads are for pick up anywhere from 8 – 36 hours out, the speed with which dispatch can cover the load becomes secondary to the rate at which they can cover the load. And that allows then time to entertain counter offers and chose the lowest possible rate.

The only other scenario is when a cheap load offer comes. I send a counter offer and then very shortly after that I receive the same offer but now at the price I said I needed to do the load. I accept it and get the load. But this only happens when the need is immediate and there are no other trucks available. Economics 101: supply and demand.

That is more how I am seeing it but Leo's scenerio is applicable but I would guess in a small percentage. I sat with a Panther dispatcher for almost a entire shift and that scenerio came up maybe once or twice. So that is why I say maybe different customers?
The other concern would be if they send you that many low offers, (14, 15, 10) whatever the number, it appears only a handful are decent? I am seeing a less than ten percent ratio with what has been posted. That is a place I would see some concern as well.

 

[Jefferson3000]

It may seem that FDCC is playing one truck against another,but it really isn't what their system is about.It is about speed of getting a truck so they can tell the customer they have a truck available.Yes some of their rates have huge discounts,that make it very difficult to do,and as all know,in the trucking industry,many loads are hauled at sub par rates.Only one that knows what is a good rate for them,or bad is the person taking the load.If a driver is driving for an owner,and all they look at is what their pay will be,then these sub par loads will get covered more often.
No matter how many feel the dispatch system is to get these low rate loads covered,this isn't true,but as I said,if a driver for a contractor has nothing but his time involved,every load will look good to him,or her

We do things with a per mile rate. I feel that if I'm offering a customer some kind of a discount, then that's on the carrier, not the truck owner. If that truck operator wants to offer me a bit of a discount to move him out of a spot, or to ensure that we get that load going 20 miles from home, just before a holiday, then THAT is on THEM.

To me, it's almost like they're offering smaller "truckloads" (at truckload prices of course) over to the expedite folks. Except that they still want to keep 40%.

 

[skyraider]

u guys are wearing me out,,,whose on 1st now again??