Lech Walesa's Warning for America

[Oilerman1957]

Oh really!?!

Well come here to Detroit, look at a Ford, or GM lot and see what you see. They have employee lots for Japanese and German cars separate from the lots for "Big Three" cars, even though one GM lot has been consistently filled with Ford and Chrysler products - it is a union thing, not a support thing.

How about supporting your company with a jacket that say GM on it instead of UAW?

I know many many people who have the UAW hats, the UAW jackets and even the UAW stickers on their cars but no where do they show pride in the company that provides them the means to make money.

I don't buy any of that they want to support the company for a second, the idea that the worker is complaining to me about my Union made VW, is not about pride it is about it being a foreign car sitting in their "territory" and they said so.

I'm not saying this blindly, I have had a lot of experience with the UAW and it wasn't paying dues.

With that said, I also beleive there are a lot of hard working UAW members, but the problem is they could have had a better life, they could have had saved their jobs by ridding themselves of an archaic union run by a bunch of greedy people.

First off, it was an american thing as to the ford and chrysler cars being in a lot, {now supporting buying american products is a bad thing?}

Second, just because we wore UAW hats and coats we were driving a GM or Ford or an American company car.

Third, Just because we paid dues doesnt make us blind, you all really need to get over that. We didnt agree with everything the UAW does.

Fourth, The Big 3 as they were once known wanted the unions there to as they the union could enforce the rules alot easier.

I just dont get this anti-american thing, the more products we buy from overseas companies the more jobs we lose here, or the less pay a worker makes. As i have stated here before, The trucking industry is starting to complain about pay but it has just started for the trucking industry as the trucking industry is next in line for pay cuts and doing more for less.

 

[layoutshooter]

The unions did not start the "buy American" stuff until their jobs were at risk. They had no problem buying TV's etc from Japan to save a buck. I used to see UAW members come into Cabela's and Gander Mountain and buy, for the most part, fishing rods/reels and most tackle that was marked Made in China where there was better tackle, marked Made in the USA right next to it. They did not want to pay the price. Seems that many of them felt that they should make x amount per hour but not the guy that makes fishing rods and reels.

 

[Oilerman1957]

The unions, as an organization not always every member of the rank and file, are socialist organizations. They push the socialist agenda, national health, gun control etc etc etc. You cannot tell me that they don't. They only back candidates that spout that swill. Name me one candidate that the UAW backed in this last election that was not a socialist? I cannot think of any, included that head putz of the bunch, King Obama.

That does not mean that every member votes that way, but around here, most do. How can I saw that? Just look at who wins and loses and what candidates have no chance what so ever of getting elected.

If an organization, backs an agenda, spends money on getting those who preach that agenda elected, that makes them part of that agenda. In this case, socialism.

When it walks like a commie, talks like a commie and lies like a commie, it must be a commie.

It kinda amazes me that the UAW or any union that has factory workers would back these socialists. It has always been the plan of the left to destroy our industrial base. They are doing it. WHY would you back a candidate that is out to wipe out your jobs? Makes no sense to me.

Funny, it seems to me the republican party has been out to destroy the working man since I was old enough to work

No union I know supports gun control , Thats just plain false. As far as who the unions support, they have there aganda, just as a corportation supports the republican party to get there agenda heard.

I dont buy into this socialist agenda crap, thats nothing but scare tactics.

To some any Democrat is a socialist.

 

[Oilerman1957]

The unions did not start the "buy American" stuff until their jobs were at risk. They had no problem buying TV's etc from Japan to save a buck. I used to see UAW members come into Cabela's and Gander Mountain and buy, for the most part, fishing rods/reels and most tackle that was marked Made in China where there was better tackle, marked Made in the USA right next to it. They did not want to pay the price. Seems that many of them felt that they should make x amount per hour but not the guy that makes fishing rods and reels.

So some bought those, that doesnt make everyone like that, because a trucker runs someone off the road your all bad drivers, dont think so

 

[Oilerman1957]

Oilerman wrote:



Nope, I was very careful NOT to call you a Socialist...i said you were a union brother...supporting a Socialist.. Which makes perfect since since the unions are the dems fav tool for election and barry as worked his tail off to pay back the uaw as well as other unions

He isnt a socialist to me, maybe to you and im sure you have your reasons, but i dont agree with them. Unions support democrats because they do more for the working man then republicans do, plain and simple. Doesnt make the union socialist.

 

[layoutshooter]

The ReBumLiCans are just as much socialist as the Dumb-O-Crats are. When have I said different? But facts be facts. If a union backs Obama they back gun control. He supports it so if you back the candidate you back the agenda.

If they back socialist ideas like National Health, Medicare, MediCade, Social Security, all socialist programs, it makes them socialists. That is what it is.

You cannot name me one of the socialist policies noted above that even come close to functioning in a reasonable manner. SS has been bankrupted by the congress. The two medical programs are ridden with fraud and cost overruns and are going bankrupt as well.

The unions, not every rank and file member, backed Obama. They therefore agree with his agenda. That makes them socialists.

 

[Oilerman1957]

The ReBumLiCans are just as much socialist as the Dumb-O-Crats are. When have I said different? But facts be facts. If a union backs Obama they back gun control. He supports it so if you back the candidate you back the agenda.

If they back socialist ideas like National Health, Medicare, MediCade, Social Security, all socialist programs, it makes them socialists. That is what it is.

You cannot name me one of the socialist policies noted above that even come close to functioning in a reasonable manner. SS has been bankrupted by the congress. The two medical programs are ridden with fraud and cost overruns and are going bankrupt as well.

The unions, not every rank and file member, backed Obama. They therefore agree with his agenda. That makes them socialists.

I dont think so, I voted for Obama because I figured I would be better off then having another republican in there.

example: I know most here are against the GM bailout but it saved my pension and health care, would the republicans have done that? I dont think so but i may be wrong.

Ive never read where Obama is for gun control other then maybe making them be registered and there are alot of good and bad arguments for and against that, I dont own a gun so i stay out of that one.

As i said about the unions, I dont agree with everything they say or do but i support them and the same goes for Democrats. The only politician i would totally agree with would be me.

 

[layoutshooter]

You must not have read much about Obama and his votes on gun bans in IL then. If he had his way even my everyday shotgun would be illegal. As to registration, there is no valid argument. It will create more crimes, not stop any. Besides, we have a Bill of Rights.

Tell me, the congress has been controlled by the Dumb-O-Crats for most of the time since FDR. How have they looked out after you? Progressive income taxes that take more from you as you earn more? How has that helped you? All it did was keep you in your place. Social Security? A total rip off. Our public health programs are a joke. Has education gotten better or worse since the Feds got involved? Has welfare helped or hurt more people? Does it encourage work and getting off that system or has it created government dependents?

Why should your pension be covered by tax payers? I don't understand that one. Your retirement is not my responsibility. That is between you and GM and increasing my (and your taxes for that matter) is not the answer.

Unions are no longer what they were started for. They are nothing more than big companies that rip off their members as bad or worse than the auto companies did.

 

[muttly]

He isnt a socialist to me, maybe to you and im sure you have your reasons, but i dont agree with them. Unions support democrats because they do more for the working man then republicans do, plain and simple. Doesnt make the union socialist.

Define working man please. The unions support the dems because they do more for unions by using other people's money such as tax money from the wealthier population to bailout companies like auto businesses. The unions are marxist. Plus they aren't against the goverment running the auto industry so that makes them socialists. Republicans or conservative repubs believe in creating a better work environment with low taxes accross the board to allow the private sector to grow,thus creating jobs FOR THE WORKING MAN. (not just unions)

 

[Oilerman1957]

You must not have read much about Obama and his votes on gun bans in IL then. If he had his way even my everyday shotgun would be illegal. As to registration, there is no valid argument. It will create more crimes, not stop any. Besides, we have a Bill of Rights.

Tell me, the congress has been controlled by the Dumb-O-Crats for most of the time since FDR. How have they looked out after you? Progressive income taxes that take more from you as you earn more? How has that helped you? All it did was keep you in your place. Social Security? A total rip off. Our public health programs are a joke. Has education gotten better or worse since the Feds got involved? Has welfare helped or hurt more people? Does it encourage work and getting off that system or has it created government dependents?

Why should your pension be covered by tax payers? I don't understand that one. Your retirement is not my responsibility. That is between you and GM and increasing my (and your taxes for that matter) is not the answer.

Unions are no longer what they were started for. They are nothing more than big companies that rip off their members as bad or worse than the auto companies did.

How would it create more crimes?

How did they look after me? Well by making sure safety laws were in place especially in a factory, maybe you dont understand that but i do.

btw, who did you vote for and did you agree with everything on there agenda?

most of my pension is covered by pbgc not taxpayers, but the union and the goverment made GM keep the veba fund where our healthcare now comes from, and bailing out Gm was not just about the workers, so much more then that.

I dont think they ripoff workers thats just anti-union talk, do they do everything right for the workers? nope, but over all they have been worth the dues i have paid.

 

[Oilerman1957]

Define working man please. The unions support the dems because they do more for unions by using other people's money such as tax money from the wealthier population to bailout companies like auto businesses. The unions are marxist. Plus they aren't against the goverment running the auto industry so that makes them socialists. Republicans or conservative repubs believe in creating a better work environment with low taxes accross the board to allow the private sector to grow,thus creating jobs FOR THE WORKING MAN. (not just unions)

Working man= For me i am talking about blue collar type jobs, not mangement.

Now wait a minute, they bailed out mayY corporations whose mangement was making millions and billions of dollars

Union workers dont pay taxes? so i believe the working mans money was used as well to bail out aig, bank of america, citibank and others I dont think any of them are union.

Gov isnt running the auto industry they just own stock in them.

Republican party is mostly funded through corporate and wealthier people, so you think they have the average workers best interest at heart? interesting

 

[layoutshooter]

It would create crimes by creating black markets. The more you regulate and control the more things go underground.

Progressive taxes are there to keep you in your place. They have used them in Europe for years for that purpose and it works.

I owe no one their pension, why should one penny of my hard earned money go to cover it? Are you going to pay mine? I bet not.

I have belong to a few unions, Teamsters, United Steel Workers, AFCME (I think that's right letters) almost the UAW. They did nothing for me except hold me back from making more. I got paid the same as the slug next to me that did nothing. I did NOT get more for doing more. How is that helping the worker? Is that right? That is un-American. I seen them protect the jobs of thieves that stole from the company, drunks, pot smokers and so on. How was any of that good?

I think too, if you look into which party gets corporate money you will find it is either equal or more to the Dumb-O-Crats. Neither party is honest, neither gives a rats behind about you the worker.

One question, how is it it that only blue collar workers are the "working man", and management are not? Managers don't work? I have been blue collar and management. I promise you, being in management is far more work, has far more responsibility and far more headaches than I ever had as when I was a line worker.

 

[Oilerman1957]

It would create crimes by creating black markets. The more you regulate and control the more things go underground.

Progressive taxes are there to keep you in your place. They have used them in Europe for years for that purpose and it works.

I owe no one their pension, why should one penny of my hard earned money go to cover it? Are you going to pay mine? I bet not.

I have belong to a few unions, Teamsters, United Steel Workers, AFCME (I think that's right letters) almost the UAW. They did nothing for me except hold me back from making more. I got paid the same as the slug next to me that did nothing. I did NOT get more for doing more. How is that helping the worker? Is that right? That is un-American. I seen them protect the jobs of thieves that stole from the company, drunks, pot smokers and so on. How was any of that good?

I think too, if you look into which party gets corporate money you will find it is either equal or more to the Dumb-O-Crats. Neither party is honest, neither gives a rats behind about you the worker.

A black market already exists for guns { how does a felon get a gun} Do you know how many guns that are sold by a law abiding citizen that ends up being traded for drugs and such?

yes i would help with my taxpayer money help you pay for a pension that you worked for 30 yrs to get. I see to much money going out to save banks and nsurance companies and alot of other wasted money to say to you, tough that you got screwed.

And do you believe you would have made the money you were making in the union shop without the union? so how would you have made more?

 

[layoutshooter]

I have always made more in non-union shops than I ever made in the union shops. Why? I work hard and get promoted. That never happens in a union shop. The unions have always complained about the government pensions. Even though we did NOT pay into SS.


One question, how is it it that only blue collar workers are the "working man", and management are not? Managers don't work? I have been blue collar and management. I promise you, being in management is far more work, has far more responsibility and far more headaches than I ever had as when I was a line worker.

I am not trying to argue or fight. I have seen both sides of the coin. Neither benefits the "little guy" one bit. I don't understand how you can believe that anyone gives a flip about you. You are a source of income for the government, companies and the unions. Nothing more. You are being taken by all of them.

 

[Oilerman1957]

It was just a way of saying blue collar, white collar, thats all. Most of the time managament is better taken care of better then blue collar workers but not always, as in the white collar workers at delphi had no agreement on protecting there pensions as the union employees did and therefore alot of them are losing 50 to 70% of there pensions. I find this to be
totally unacceptable as upper management still recieves large bonuses but yet screws the lower mangement out of there pensions they worked 30 to 40 yrs to get. And yes i support there fight 100% as i donate monies to there legal battle they are in.

 

[Oilerman1957]

I have always made more in non-union shops than I ever made in the union shops. Why? I work hard and get promoted. That never happens in a union shop. The unions have always complained about the government pensions. Even though we did NOT pay into SS.


One question, how is it it that only blue collar workers are the "working man", and management are not? Managers don't work? I have been blue collar and management. I promise you, being in management is far more work, has far more responsibility and far more headaches than I ever had as when I was a line worker.

I am not trying to argue or fight. I have seen both sides of the coin. Neither benefits the "little guy" one bit. I don't understand how you can believe that anyone gives a flip about you. You are a source of income for the government, companies and the unions. Nothing more. You are being taken by all of them.

Sure it did, I saw many union workers go in mangement. Happened all the time.

Trust me, I know where im at on the food chain, was i taken? nope. I did my job, worked all i could, made all i could make.

Did'nt take it as fighting, I support the union in big companies just because of what you said, im just a number to them, If there was no union all it would take is one foreman to not like you and your gone, no reason for that.

 

[layoutshooter]

I did not mean leaving a union to get a promotion, the union based everything on time in service not ability. Hard work does not help.

I did not like having two bosses. I was told by the company AND the union how much I was going make. Then PAY them for the right to earn less!!!

Glad to hear that you know that I not picking a fight. So many in here take good discussion as fighting.

 

[Oilerman1957]

I did not mean leaving a union to get a promotion, the union based everything on time in service not ability. Hard work does not help.

I did not like having two bosses. I was told by the company AND the union how much I was going make. Then PAY them for the right to earn less!!!

Glad to hear that you know that I not picking a fight. So many in here take good discussion as fighting.

You guys make good points, not worried about the fighting part, lol

I had to make adjustments in the way i may make a point after retiring form GM, My first job after retiring i got into it with the boss, used a few choice words on my part,. lol, needless to say they asked me to leave the next day. My wife said: you cant talk to bosses like that in the real world, hahahaha. I later saw my old bosses at GM and told them what happened and we laughed. was just the way it was it that factory, we could hollar at each other one moment and be buying you a coffee the next. Now i just try and keep my mouth shut. hahaha

 

[layoutshooter]

Yeah, I often had to "bite my tounge" when I worked for the government. There were times when it just got to be too much and I would "let 'er rip"!!! When lives were at stake I just could not bite hard enough to shut me up!!! LOL!!!

 

[Oilerman1957]

You know, somehow i believe you on that, hahahaha