Joe the Plumber

Tennesseahawk

Veteran Expediter
For those of you who do not know of Joe the Plumber, he is an Ohio businessman who plans to grow his plumbing business, and provide jobs as a result. He confronted Obama about his tax plan that raises taxes on someone making over 250k. Here's the video...

YouTube - "Joe the Plumber" Calls Obama a Socialist for his "Spread the Wealth" Comment on Fox News

McCain brought up the confrontation, and did a good job with taking Obama to task about "spreading the wealth around". Make no mistake, ppl... redistribution of wealth IS SOCIALISM! The only time Obama tells what his plans are, are when he's caught with his pants down with no script or preparation.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
You betcha!!! Socialism, Marxism and Communism are all one in the same. They all just assume certian things. One. We are stupid and cannot live without thier help. Two. People have a RIGHT to recieve charity. Three. They assume the right to determine how much I am to be FORCED by law or gun point to support the charities of THIER choice. Will I don NOT ceed that right to them. They can rot in HELL for all I care. I will NOT give in. Heck, many of these goobers even assume they have the right to tell me what I can eat and how I get my food!!! They already tell me how much water my throne can use. Can you imagine that? Hard to believe in a free country. Layoutshooter
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
The only time Obama tells what his plans are, are when he's caught with his pants down with no script or preparation.
Not many people seem to have picked up on that one simple truth. Here's a great illustration of that, and it's also related to Joe the Plumber.
YouTube - OBAMA's TAX PLAN - Penn & Teller and gang return to comment on Barack Obama's socialist plans to turn the United States into a Marxist wasteland! FEATURING Plumber, Joe Wurzelbacher


Also, here's a sobering quote from an unknown individual that is indicative of how many, many people in this country actually think:
"I can't quite afford to be a republican yet since I make less than 250k a year. But I do think that spreading the wealth around is B.S. However, If the rich are tax higher I won't be shedding any tears."

(a) if you're not "rich" then you can't afford to be a republican so you should be a democrat, instead, (b) they don't necessarily think that money should be taken to from the rich and given to them, but (c) they have no problem in punishing someone who is doing a little too good.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Oh man, Let me question the "Boy God" on live TV. I won't hit him with the "light" stuff like the networks and McCain does. It could never happen. First, he is a coward and would never face a real man with real questions. Second, the networks want him elected. Third, his owners won't let him fly on his own, they know he is a putz. As much as "red" fits his politics, yellow fits his spine, or lack there of. Layoutshooter
 

Jayman

Expert Expediter
I sometimes wonder if Obama is doing as well as networks like CNN and MSNBC want us to think. I know they "want" him elected. But, are the poll numbers they (FOX included) present really that accurate?
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I too wonder about the poles. The few times I have been polled I have answered in two ways. One was to lie through my teeth to do what ever I could to mess up the poll. The questions are always loaded in a way that incites peoples fears. The other way I answer is just to say "Nunja" Which is Pennsylvania hunting launguge for none of your business. Those are the only two answers a poll taker needs. Layoutshooter
 

EagleRiverWI

Seasoned Expediter
Man that Carl Rove is brilliant. He managed to figure out which neighborhood "The One" would be walking around in in Toledo, and then plant Joe The Plumber in it 4 years before Obamba showed up to go door to door asking for votes. I have never made a donation to a politician, but Joe will be my first if he decides to run.
 

Jack_Berry

Moderator Emeritus
yeah all that is great except...

he ain't a licensed plumber and is not recognized by his home town of toledo ohio as a commercial plumber
he has not paid his taxes for a while
he works for a guy who has a license


its all great rhetoric but the truth gets in the way.
 

Dabus1952

Seasoned Expediter
HELLO
JOE the so called business man plumber is a fraud just like the last 8 years under George and his good ole boy Networth.The trouble with elections , people only hear what they want to hear.
What about the story on back taxes he owes? Or being arrested.Hell his own town of Toledo dont want to own up to him..
Like I said folks this is 2008 change is in the air.weather you support a certain canidate or not this still is the Unitied States Of America ,So my advice is put your prejutice and fears aside.Let the winner prove himself to the American People .Hell everyone deserves that much, it cant get much worse then it is Today.
This add is from a Irish American and I supoort this add.
 

theoldprof

Veteran Expediter
Yep, Joe is a true Republican. He gave himself a tax break. Didn't pay his taxes. He also doesn't believe in business regulation. Doesn't have a plumber's license.
 

miker

Seasoned Expediter
he wont need to open that business now, I read the other day that he hired a press team to handle all of the media requests for shows, interviews etc. . It is a press company that schedules these types of things for some rather large celebrities, musicians and what not. he should making some good money from those, hec that couldve been the plan from day one
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
I will not put anything aside. I am a freeman. I will stay that way. I refuse to pay ANY more taxes than I pay now. I don't want socialized health care, won't pay for it and will not follow any rules, laws etc that go with it. I don't believe in Marxism. I lived in a country with that kind of medicine and seen the resluts. Just wait, think fuel is high now? Norway is over $10 per gallon and England over $8. Ever here the twit Hillarry talking about a V.A.T. tax? Coming soon to your neighborhood. I can't wait till everything I buy costs double what it does now. All to pay for sub-standard care. Besides, what part of the Constitution gives any person or the "Government" the "right" to take my hard earned wages and give them to someone else? I cannot believe anyone is willing to give up freedom for that. Hundreds of thousands died to give us that freedom. They are rolling over in thier graves. I give no one a chance. Either stick to the Constitution or get the heck out of my life. It is that simple for me. Layoutshooter
 

drivingmecrazy

Seasoned Expediter
What part of " IF YOU HAVE HEALTH CARE NOW, AND YOU LIKE IT.. KEEP IT!" Think for yourself! This is NOT socializism... like my Dad used to say " I could talk to you till I'm blue in the face and it won't make a difference." I now understand what he meant...
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
If it walks like a mallard, quacks like a mallard and flies like a mallard it is a mallard. Do not fall for it. You will start with this and that. Then there will not be enough money for it (you know like Medicare and Medcade are) sooooo, a V.A.T. then added fuel tax, then "special taxes" like on certain fast foods or hunting ammunition or what ever behavior they want to control. Explain how 95% of people can get tax breaks when only 70% are paying now? How can you fund everything we fund now and INCREASE the percentage that are not paying taxes? How do you explain giving refunds to people who pay no taxes? Earned income credits where people get back more than they pay in? That is the defenition of socialism. It is just called other things. Insted of re-distrabution of wealth as our buddy Karl called it, our friends now call it "spreading the wealth around." Keep every nickle you earn. Pay a flat sales tax, no more than 15%. Everyone pays. The rich will pay more and the poor will pay less. Eliminate welfare of every kind. No more free money. No free health care for criminal aliens. No free education for criminal aliens. Obama has stated on more than one occasion that his goal is a single pay health system, socailized medicine. Once they take control of that 30% of the economy, which they have no legal right to do, add that to the control they now have of the banking system, you have Marxism. This country has been sliding down that track since 1930. I do not believe Obama. He is a politition and therefor a liar. He is a Marxist. He hangs with Marxists so he is one. He is has addmitted to committing crimes while in college therefor a criminal. His vp pick has committed crimes while in office. Don't get me wrong, I don't like McCain either. In fact, I don't trust ANY politition. I just trust those who promise me everything less. I repeat. I will pay no new taxes. I will not subsidize others medical care. I pay for my wifes and mine, that is my responsibilty and only mine. I will pay to cover vets, they EARNED IT. I am for a total tax revolt. We have to take back the power. It is not the Federal governments to have. All power in this country resides with the states and ultimately with the PEOPLE!! I seem to have read that somewhere, OH YEA, the Constitution of the United States of America!! Darn pesky thing. The only way Osama Obama can do what he wants is to suspend it. We know he does not believe in it. Like the 14th Amendment that gives all rights to those born in the U.S. except when Obama votes against it 4 times. Letting LIVE BIRTH Babies die without care. Gee I thougt all were to get health care if this garden slug is elected. Guess not. Layoutshooter
 

Turtle

Administrator
Staff member
Retired Expediter
Besides, what part of the Constitution gives any person or the "Government" the "right" to take my hard earned wages and give them to someone else?
Article 1, Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Amendment 16, Status of Income Tax Clarified:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
 

layoutshooter

Veteran Expediter
Retired Expediter
Turtle, I don't know the Constitution as well as most but I know that somewhere in there is a clause that states that is not legal to take money from one citizen to give it to another. Not the exact wording but you know from where I speak. This government has been usurping the power of the people for far too long. I don't trust them. Not in any way shape or form. I cannot understand how anyone can. They are all scum. Just how I feel. I do know that no government can rule without the consent of the people. No matter who is elected he will NOT be elected by a majority of registerd voters. Heck, we seldom even have a majority show up. Why? not appapthy , it is disgust. Do you trust them? Just wondering. Layoutshooter
 

RLENT

Veteran Expediter
Article 1, Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Yeah ..... well ....... ya didn't include one leeetle item that ya really, really shoulda - it's under Article I, Section 9:

"No capitation, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enumeration herein before directed to be taken."

What the above essentially means in modern day English is that the Founders, knowing that the power to tax was the power to destroy weren't really too keen on the Federal Government taking taxes unequally from individuals directly - so they PROHIBITED IT.

Essentially, the Founders decided to give the power to Congress to lay two types of taxes - direct and indirect - and it's spelled out this way in the Constitution.

Indirect taxes are authorized to provide for the operation of the government and its legitimate functions and are made subject to the rule of uniformity, which simply means that everyone must be treated the same - and is taxed at the same rate as everybody else for similar activities.

Examples would be Federal Excise Tax on tires, or Federal portion of the tax on gas ..... or maybe tobacco. Everyone is treated the same with regard to these type of taxes.

Direct taxes are authorized to ensure the solvency of the nation (to pay debts off in a timely manner - haaah ! .... what a freakin' concept !) and they are made subject to the rule of apportionment (according to the last census). What the rule of apportionment means is that the Federal government does not collect direct taxes from citizens – it collects them from the state governments.

Each State’s government (Treasury) is responsible for its citizens’ proportionate share of the total direct tax laid by Congress. The proportionate share that each state must pay is calculated based on the population count for the State in the last census taken. So if ten percent of the population counted in the last census lived in California, the California government would have to come up with ten percent of the Direct tax that was laid by Congress.

Notice that in order to tell each State how much it must pay, Congress must specify exactly how much money is to be raised by this tax. Once the amount is fixed, then and only then can the State’s begin to make arrangements to raise the money. Otherwise, the states would know neither how much money to raise (above existing treasury levels), nor how much they were actually liable to pay.

So direct taxes were never to be paid by the citizen to the federal government directly, they are paid by the State governments, thus preventing the tyranny that inevitably results when the government arrives on the doorsteps of the citizens ...... and demands arbitrary amounts of money from them in the name of tax.

The Founding Fathers were very familiar with this tyrannical reality, and they removed this cancer from the American landcape forever, or at least they thought they had, by Constitutionally forbidding the Federal government from ever taxing the citizens directly, unless apportioned to the States for collection.

A Federal Income Tax would be a direct tax, that flies in the face of the prohibition above, contained in Article I, Section 9.

Supposedly the 16th amendment removed that prohibition ..... but there seems to be quite a bit of disagreement as to whether it was actually ratified by the required number of states to have it become valid and law - and even if it did, whether it does in fact remove the prohibition against a direct tax (according to subsequent holdings by the Supreme Court pertaining to it) :D

Layout - the above is what you know "intuitively" - and your intuitions are quite correct. The Founders would be aghast if they could see us now ..... they are surely rolling in their graves ...... how far we have fallen ......
 
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