If you have a QC, most pretend they are looking at it and then hand it back. I'm not sure a lot of them know how to read the thing.
Implications of new 34 hour restart rule
- Thread starter turritrans
- Start date
If you have a QC, most pretend they are looking at it and then hand it back. I'm not sure a lot of them know how to read the thing.
I typed "34 hour" in the "find" box to search the 81140 Federal Register / Vol. 76, No. 248 / Tuesday, December 27, 2011 / Rules and Regulations http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...rulemakings/final/HOS-Final-Rule-12-27-11.pdf and found this regarding the restart, attempting to argue the new HOS will not increase paper work;
"but he still
needs to keep track of his total hours if
he could be pressing the limits. Many
drivers do these calculations in their
heads without needing to write them
down."
ha ha ha HA HA! Yeah, I calculate my hours in my head all the time. H E double toothpick, I can't remember where I was yesterday, let alone counting my HOS for 7 days straight! The final ruling read will make your head spin, obviously written by someone that has no business with trucking, no regard for freight times, and over all a mess. Come on already!! Go interview Ted Nugent our something and leave us the "H E double toothpick alone".
"but he still
needs to keep track of his total hours if
he could be pressing the limits. Many
drivers do these calculations in their
heads without needing to write them
down."
ha ha ha HA HA! Yeah, I calculate my hours in my head all the time. H E double toothpick, I can't remember where I was yesterday, let alone counting my HOS for 7 days straight! The final ruling read will make your head spin, obviously written by someone that has no business with trucking, no regard for freight times, and over all a mess. Come on already!! Go interview Ted Nugent our something and leave us the "H E double toothpick alone".
Trucking companies are just mad because they all force the drivers to work like dogs so that they can pad their pockets with money. If greed wasn't involved in the mix there would really be no need to regulate trucks. But as we all know some drivers would never stop and some companies would push drivers to the max if there were no rules placed on commercial driving. If you get a really good rate per mile why would you ever need to run hard enough to max out your seventy hour clock?
Look at what CharlesD posted about running smaller loads for a higher profit. Plus this is a capitalist system, sometimes the bigger companies with more resources can crush the smaller companies. The customer is looking for versatility and diversity of transportation solutions. If you are a large fortune 500 carrier with numerous terminals, cross dock locations, and trucks and trailers, the customer is going to get better service from the bigger carriers. But even the bigger carriers abuse the rules.
I know I used to work for two pretty big carriers and I used to be coerced into breaking the rules a lot. I simply got tired of bring forced to break the rules or saying no and then having dispatch park me in the middle of no where with a 500 mile load that couldn't be delivered for 5 days. That is why I left trucking. Companies have all of these large safety departments with safety people who tell you in orientation that they care about you and want you to drive safe.
Then you have to deal with dispatchers and sales quotas and a little punk sitting behind a desk telling you how to break the rules to get the job done. If you do what the safety department tells you to do you will go broke and be starved out by dispatch. But if you do what the dispatch tells you to do you will eventually get violations and you will be forced out that way. Reading all of this makes me feel like I did ten years ago!
Look at what CharlesD posted about running smaller loads for a higher profit. Plus this is a capitalist system, sometimes the bigger companies with more resources can crush the smaller companies. The customer is looking for versatility and diversity of transportation solutions. If you are a large fortune 500 carrier with numerous terminals, cross dock locations, and trucks and trailers, the customer is going to get better service from the bigger carriers. But even the bigger carriers abuse the rules.
I know I used to work for two pretty big carriers and I used to be coerced into breaking the rules a lot. I simply got tired of bring forced to break the rules or saying no and then having dispatch park me in the middle of no where with a 500 mile load that couldn't be delivered for 5 days. That is why I left trucking. Companies have all of these large safety departments with safety people who tell you in orientation that they care about you and want you to drive safe.
Then you have to deal with dispatchers and sales quotas and a little punk sitting behind a desk telling you how to break the rules to get the job done. If you do what the safety department tells you to do you will go broke and be starved out by dispatch. But if you do what the dispatch tells you to do you will eventually get violations and you will be forced out that way. Reading all of this makes me feel like I did ten years ago!
zorry
Veteran Expediter
Dave KC is right about the QC.
Think about it. If WE have a hard time understanding it how will a LEO that has never logged be able to comprehend it ?
In my younger days I got caught in a surprise roadside inspection.
I was definitely out of hours, doing dispatch a "favor".
I handed the LEO the book which showed me out of hours. I acted as if all was good. He kept studying it but was confused because I'd been running split breaks for three days.
He let me go.
On the two 0100-0500 breaks,in a team at least the noon-midnight driver will hit it in 36 hrs off.
Think about it. If WE have a hard time understanding it how will a LEO that has never logged be able to comprehend it ?
In my younger days I got caught in a surprise roadside inspection.
I was definitely out of hours, doing dispatch a "favor".
I handed the LEO the book which showed me out of hours. I acted as if all was good. He kept studying it but was confused because I'd been running split breaks for three days.
He let me go.
On the two 0100-0500 breaks,in a team at least the noon-midnight driver will hit it in 36 hrs off.
If I was ever to see you I could bet you right now for a free steak dinner (which I would win) that its 168 is the next Friday it also could be any other day depending on when you did your last 34.
this is from the FMCSA web site. http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/hos/Interstate-Truck-Driver-Guide-to-HOS_508.pdf
34-Hour Restart
The hours-of-service regulations allow you to “restart” your 60 or 70-hour clock calculations after
having at least 34 consecutive hours off duty. These regulations are found in Sections 395.3(c)(1) and
(c)(2) and are in effect until June 30, 2013. Effective July 1, 2013, the hours-of-service regulations
will require that the restart must cover at least 34 consecutive hours and include at least two periods
between 1:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. (home terminal time zone). Furthermore, the rules will limit the use
of the “34-hour restart” to once a week (once every 168 hours). The restart cannot be used until 168
hours or more have passed since the beginning of the driver’s last restart. This provision is found in
Section 395.3(d) of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations. The minimum period is 34 hours.
Most drivers driving day-time schedules will be able to obtain the 2 nights in a minimum 34-hour
restart, if they need to use the restart at all. For example, a driver who begins a restart period when
going off duty at 7:00 p.m. on a Friday would complete the minimum 34 hours off duty at 5:00 a.m.
on Sunday. This would have included the required 2 nights off between 1:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. Only
drivers who have a regular overnight driving schedule and who work more than 5 nights a week will
need to take longer restarts to obtain the 2 nights off. After you have taken at least 34 consecutive
hours off duty – which includes 2 periods between 1:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. – you have the full 60
or 70 hours available again. You would then begin counting hours on the day of the restart and not
go back the full 7 or 8 days.
Here is examples from the FMCSA with pictures...
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/hos/logbook.pdf
All the info for the new rules are here just look at the right side, where it says HOS final rule
Summary of Hours-of-Service (HOS) Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/documents/hos/logbook.pdf
All the info for the new rules are here just look at the right side, where it says HOS final rule
Summary of Hours-of-Service (HOS) Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
Last edited:
and you could probably count on one hand the times a solo driver maxed out the 70 in a 5 day period....to have absolutely no time off between loads? what are the odds?...If a guy puts in 70 hours in 5 days he needs time off....
Was trying to figure out the 70 hours 5 days. I guess he logged off duty as on duty to get those numbers.
I like the cigarette banner you have, for me it's been something like 20 years since I quit. Just think, save that money in a separate bank account for a year and what a vacation you and your family could have.
Last edited:
I think he was using the max per day calculation....which is extreme to say the least...
Of all you that have commented..How many would have fallen into this situation? and if you did how many times would it have happened?....
The ATA is asking the FMCSA to extend the start date of these new HOS rules to take effect beyond the date of the court ruling that will be coming a few months from now. FMCSA is considering the request. The idea is to give people time to adjust and train once the ruling is known.
Regarding the mandatory 30-minute break, the Department of Energy is asking the FMCSA to extend to their radioactive loads the same provisions that apply to explosives loads. I was not aware of that until today and the comment period on that one is already closed.
I am surprised that shippers of sensitive freight did not howl about the mandatory 30 minute break earlier, and also expect more to do so as it dawns on them what the FMCSA is requiring.
Links:
Request for Extension of the Effective Date
Department of Energy Request
Regarding the mandatory 30-minute break, the Department of Energy is asking the FMCSA to extend to their radioactive loads the same provisions that apply to explosives loads. I was not aware of that until today and the comment period on that one is already closed.
I am surprised that shippers of sensitive freight did not howl about the mandatory 30 minute break earlier, and also expect more to do so as it dawns on them what the FMCSA is requiring.
Links:
Request for Extension of the Effective Date
Department of Energy Request
Phil, don't you take a lunch break, if you do, what's the big deal. Take the darn thing at the 6 or 7 hour mark from when you started your day, log it and be on your way.
This time I don't see the courts overturning the rule, I could be wrong, but I have a 50/50 chance of being right.
This time I don't see the courts overturning the rule, I could be wrong, but I have a 50/50 chance of being right.
Parts of the rule will be in place forever already because they are not being contested. But other parts will almost certainly change.
As far as taking breaks go, check out this link and and notice the menu of security services that are offered. There are a number of expediters that provide these service and they represent a significant if not the majority of their revenue.
What's the big deal? The big deal is that the 30-minute break rule requires drivers to stop the truck and go off duty and stop providing security for very important freight. It is not a stretch to call this rule the hijacker and terrorist assistance act. Shippers of such cargo will not tolerate such a security breech, so this rule threatens to disrupt this very important expediting business segment.
What's the big deal? A truck at rest is a truck at risk. And when you are hauling high-risk cargo, it's a very big deal to be put at risk by a wrongheaded rule that was crafted by short-sighted bureaucrats.
It is a relief to see the DOE push back against this rule. It is my hope that other shippers of sensitive cargo will jump on board and will help the FMCSA understand what dangers this 30-minute break rule threatens to create.
what exact security does a driver provide when a well thought out attack starts?....absolutely none....the drivers are expendable to the bad guys...
You forget things like you have to fuel go to the bathroom, eat, take a shower and the list goes on and on.
Heck how do you do it now, because you would have to be cheating already when ever you do any of the above during a run.
Phil is correct. As it works now, one of the people in a team is on duty. With putting a break in there, that would be happening while there other is doing their 10 hour sleeping time. That is where the problem is. Two people would be off duty for that 30 minute break. That is a problem on some loads.
If the break is mandatory for the 30 minutes in the first eight hours, how much fuel you have or don't isn't relevant. Of course you could/maybe burn that 30 minutes on the front end but that would be the only way to do it.